Sequential start

[bass ackwards]

This time when I set up my grow rooms I want to do things differently. One of the things I want to change is the way my lights go on. My flower rooms will have six 600wHPS lights. Previously when the lights went on they all went on at once. I'm concerned about the sudden surge in electricity this caused. What I would like to do is have the lights go on in intervals, say two lights on followed by a short period of time, then two more lights go on,then after another pause the last two go on.
I know there are sequential timers that will do this but the problem I have with them is their cost, appx.$250. I don't need additional timers, I have enough already and they work fine. What I am hoping to find is something like an outlet which has a delay circuit in it. Something simple and cheap.
There are outlets which have similar circuits to prevent hot starts, but they will not fit my needs. I'm hoping some of you know of something which will fit my needs, how bout it? Anybody!

Respect bass

 

[00420]

build one......

its just relays and a plc

 

[Observer Tom]

Building a plc (programmable logic controller) is where it gets tricky. I've read a few DIY articles on em and while I consider myself pretty savvy I haven't stepped up to the plate and actually built one yet.

Personally I just broke mine down into smaller groups on their own timers. This also has the added advantage that you can mix and mash which lights come on pretty easily, for instance I run a checkered pattern of lights on especially hot days to reduce heat and power.

If you have 6 lights, I'd suggest 2 timers with 3 lights each, you can set them to start 5 minutes apart and viola - less surge when they kick on.

Cheap and more importantly, easy.

 

[sparkjumper]

Trust me as an electrician if all of your wire and devices are rated for what you're doing,you need not be concerned about a sudden surge in current.This subject is entirely overhyped especially if you're just talking 5K or less.Its a waste of time and energy bro that can be used somewheres else

 

[ogatec]

i dunno about that.. my buddy switched to digi ballasts (6-7) 600's and he had to get one of those sequential things cause when the ballasts all turned on at once it would flip the breaker.(old ballasts worked fine)

 

[bass ackwards]

Great responses guys,thanks.

00420, yes it seems to be as simple as a couple of relays and a controller,and if I had any background in electronics it would probably be a snap,unfortunately I don't have the knowledge.

Observer Tom, I agree with you, I've read a tutorial on PLC's myself but haven't gone any further,it's intimidating to say the least. Adding additional timers would work,however I was sure that I ran across an advertisement for a unit made for this purpose. Maybe I didn't that is why I brought the subject up here for others to comment on.

sparkjumper,Good to hear from you again, hope you are well and still knocking them dead. One of my concerns is the new "smart meters" being used by the electric companies, do you think the surge of lights on would in some way cause them to raise a red flag with the utility co.? Certainly don't need to draw attention to the grow.

ogatec,I won't be putting all the lights on one circuit,so tripping a breaker shouldn't be a problem. In fact for my last rooms each light was on it's own 15amp circuit,nothing else on the circuit. Don't know if I will be able to do that again but the most I would do is to put two lights on one 20amp. circuit. Two 600w lights draw around 13 amps, safely below the 80% limit.

Respect bass

 

[00420]

with 5-8 lights i agree with Observer Tom,

If you have 6 lights, I'd suggest 2 timers with 3 lights each, you can set them to start 5 minutes apart and viola - less surge when they kick on.

Cheap and more importantly, easy.

but on this note....

In fact for my last rooms each light was on it's own 15amp circuit,nothing else on the circuit. Don't know if I will be able to do that again but the most I would do is to put two lights on one 20amp. circuit. Two 600w lights draw around 13 amps, safely below the 80% limit.

go 240v 3 1k's run on a 20 amp line..... i bet u can SAFELY run 6 600's on a 30 amp 240 line

 

[Observer Tom]

If someone looks at one of those smart meter readouts and sees a spike when half come on, then 5 min later another spike when the rest come on, it will still look pretty suspicious. I guess a machine may not interpret the double spike the same way, but a person sure would.

The best advice is make sure you're within legal medical limits for your area that way it doesn't matter who gets suspicious.

I haven't used them, but don't those 15 minute delays designed to prevent hot starts just delay it for 15 min? Wouldn't that be exactly what you're looking for? Or do they delay for 15 min only after turning off recently.

 

[bass ackwards]

00420,You may be right about what can be run on a 240v line but I am afraid of 240v's. 110v I can deal with I've been hit with it before,no big thing but 240 can kill and I'm a coward when it comes with electricity.Your talking about a lot of amps.

Observer Tom, To the best of my knowledge the fifteen minute delay relays only start the time countdown after the power has been interrupted. That won't work for this application,as you know. The second best option is to add additional timers as you suggest. I still believe that somebody makes the delay relay I am looking for, I HOPE!

Respect bass

 

[sparkjumper]

Bass ackwards I wouldnt know how to answer your question about these "smart meters" because I dont know anything about them.I do believe however that there is nobody gauging residential "spikes" in electricity and people are a bit paranoid on the subject.I have a regular meter and when the guy comes to read it,I shut mostly down.Thats the precaution I take.I dont know about smart meters but I have a hard time believing there is actually someone with a position of "spikemaster" at the elec companies lol

 

[bass ackwards]

sparkjumper, Maybe I am making too much of a thing over the surge,after all I never concerned myself with it in the past and nothing happened. It's just the fact that this operation will beat a location away from my direct supervision and because of that I'm trying to be extra cautious,perhaps overly so. As you and others have suggested.

Respect bass

P.S. you needent be so formal, "bass",will do just fine.

 

[sparkjumper]

I clamped my ampmeter over the hot legs of the 240 circuit and saw no real spike at all.Now granted it may have been to quick for the eye to see but I dont think so.My 3 1K verts always come at at once and have for well over 5 years with the same intermatic little gray box 240 timer.No problems with breakers tripping or anything.I did with 3 1K verts on a 12 wire 20A circuit but as soon as I switched to 10 wire no problem.I was stretching it with 3 1K's on 12 wire

 

[raygun]

I was worried about electrical spikes myself untill I purchased a standing heater unit for my bathroom. This thing pulls 1500watts ( or thats what its rated) and it goes on and will stay on for hours then shut off and turn back on again all day long. Its set for a temp and keeps it there so its on off on off...
That is just one appliance. My microwave and convection toaster oven both use over 1000watts at a time and in my house those are always being used. Shoot my gals hair dryer is 1250 watts. Now some of those are not coming on and staying on for 12 hours (well perhaps the heater) but with all the "other" spikes I don't think that they could really tell.

I think that its only after they suspect you of growing then they look at the records for electical usage (total per month) verses what your neighborhood average is and if you are significantly higer than that, bingo...suspect
Change out all your bulbs in your house to CFL, be as energy efficient as possible. Let the electric co know you have some legit high energy items (pool, jacuzzi, sauna, kiln (glass blowing or ceramics) that way they have at least some record or you large energy use.

I actually called my electric co to ask how I could help save and lower my bill. They asked what large appliances I used and had. Did a whole profile for them and they let me know the usual energy saving tips. My bill was showing close to 3 times what the previous tennents used that same month the previous year. I felt a little safer after letting them know about the year round heated pool (never turned heater on) and that I was running a recording studio out of my house that had lots of amplifyers and electronics always going and that explained why my bill was so much higher than the previous tennents.

Sorry I don't have any help on your original question.

 

[imnotcrazy]

110V can kill just as easily as 240V, it only takes 0.10A to stop your heart..


As far as programming a PLC, I have already done a Flip-Flop tutorial which can be found here: http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99252

Making the On-Cycle stagger would be a very simple program to write, I'll see if I have some time to draw the program out on paper (I do NOT have the programming software, if you purchase the PLC w/ keypad/display it is not necessary) and take a pic so you can see the program structure.

This is How the PLC Flip-Flop Timer program looks:

 

[bass ackwards]

sparkjumper, Taking the time to check for a spike even when you didn't believe one would occur? That is going the extra mile, thank you for that.

raygun, Thank you for the words of assurance. I am beginning to believe that I need not be as concerned as I am over this problem,as you and others have suggested.

imnotcrazy, I saw that tutorial you put together. It prompted me to look into PLC's and programming. Shortly afterwards I threw up my hands and cursed myself for being so stupid. I envy your knowledge. If you draw out a program I will be sure to download it and try to work through it I would really like to learn how to use a PLC as I could use it for so many things,especially at a remote location,(x10 cameras,email notifications,etc).

Respect bass

 

[imnotcrazy]

Here you go

Here you go

Here's the program you wanted:

The Q.... is for any 3rd, 4th...... stages you'd like to add. All you would need to do to make these stages operate properly:

Multiply the stage you are programming by the first the stage's Time On Delay time and you will have the present stages TOD.

EX: Stage #3 Time Delay = (T.O.D. for stage #2 x 3)

Stage #N Time Delay = (T.O.D. for stage #2 x N)

 

[bass ackwards]

Thank you for taking the time to write up and post that program. I have copied it and intend to try to work it out with the tutorials I have found. As with anything new it seems insurmountable at first,however I am inspired by the knowledge that once I learn the basics I would be able to control my operation much better.
Others here following this thread who have more of an understanding than I will gain from your efforts I'm sure.

Respect bass