**HELP: 1000 watt HPS switching off on me****

[spyvsspy]

Hello, I recently got a 1000 watt HPS set up from HTG supply and it has just started randomly turning off on me, then switching back on about 5 minutes later. Here is the set-up:
AgroMax 1000 watt HPS bulb
Growbright Magnetic Ballast
EZ Cool 8 reflector with 8" Inline Cooling Ducts and glass bottom
Heavy Duty Digital Timer w/ backup battery

I haven't hooked up the in line fan yet...
SO, it will randomly shut off, but the sound of the ballast continues.. I tried to take out the bulb and securely tighten it again, secure all the electrical connections, etc.... just when I think it will be okay, it is back off. I have been using it for about a week, and today is the first time I found it to be off. I don't know if I just hadn't noticed it before, or it just randomly started today....

I am using my 400 watt HPS with the same outlet and timer, no problems there...
Any ideas as to what could be causing this?? I'm in flower and I really need to be using my 1000 and not be fearful of it shutting off on me.

Any help, thoughts, jokes, etc. are appreciated.
Grow on all, Spy

 

[Pinball Wizard]

I'm no expert...but a glass inclosed 1000 watt HPS reflector and no cool air flow would worry me. Does the glass come out?...easy?

 

[spyvsspy]

Thanks for the reply.....
I was kind of thinking this could be an issue, however it has been much hotter the previous couple of days with no trouble.
If nothing else I think I may try to take the glass out and see if this remedies the problem, and yes, on this particular model the glass does come out pretty easily.

-spy

 

[Danny.Bwoy]

.

 

[spyvsspy]

Solid post Danny.Bwoy.......

Any other ideas here fellas or fellaettes?
I'm going to try to go glass-less today and see how that goes, I'll let yall know, but in the mean time any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks, spy

 

[sparkjumper]

I dont know how old your lamp is but your HPS lamp is "cycling" which is what happens towards the end of its life.If its brand new it couldv'e been defective.Google cycleing HPS and I know you'll get a clearer picture

 

[spyvsspy]

Hey sparkjumper. Thanks for the tip, I googled Cycling and watched this short and interesting youtube film. I took my light all around the house to different outlets, used my timer, no timer, etc. and determined it was something to do with my light, not simply the outlet or timer.
Is this an issue with the bulb or the ballast in most cases?

My set-up and bulb is only 3 days old!!!! Which makes me think it is defective.

SO more than likely it will be an issue with my bulb and not my ballast?

Thanks all, and rep+ sparkjumper
-spy

 

[spyvsspy]

So I've been troubleshooting all day, and it turns out that my light switches off whenever a major appliance (central A/C, fridge, etc.. ) switches on. I have tried all the outlets in that area, and they all do the exact same thing...
I am by no means an electrician, so I don't want to attempt any re-wiring or anything,
Am I just making this up, or is there some type or power strip-like product that can compensate for this quick loss of electricity? I feel like I have seen it before......

Any other suggestions short of re-wiring my whole house??

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

return it and get a new one. but use the cooling fan. It might be set to go off if it gets too hot. Or you might have gotten it too hot before and fucked it up. dont fuck around with electrical problems. make sure you fix it before leaving it unmonitered. you dont wanna burn down your house.

 

[spyvsspy]

Still need help!!
So here's the NEW deal:
I took the bulb to my grow shop, plugged it in, and it works fine. I use it at home and its fine UNTIL an appliance turns on, it even shut off when I turned a small fan on, opened the fridge or turned on the 23 watt CFL that lights the room. I have tried it at every outlet in my house and same case.
NOW, I know that ballasts are supposed to absorb power dips of up to 30% without extinguishing the bulb. And I also know that older bulbs are less able to successfully absorb power dips, but the bulb is ONLY 4 days old.
SO, would you say this is a ballast problem, a bulb problem, a house wiring problem, or all the above?????? Need input as I about to call the place i got it from and claim warranty on whatever the defective link may be......
Thanks, spy

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Still need help!!
So here's the NEW deal:
I took the bulb to my grow shop, plugged it in, and it works fine. I use it at home and its fine UNTIL an appliance turns on, it even shut off when I turned a small fan on, opened the fridge or turned on the 23 watt CFL that lights the room. I have tried it at every outlet in my house and same case.
NOW, I know that ballasts are supposed to absorb power dips of up to 30% without extinguishing the bulb. And I also know that older bulbs are less able to successfully absorb power dips, but the bulb is ONLY 4 days old.
SO, would you say this is a ballast problem, a bulb problem, a house wiring problem, or all the above?????? Need input as I about to call the place i got it from and claim warranty on whatever the defective link may be......
Thanks, spy

First step to setting up a grow is to electrically map your place.
Once you know which appliances are on which circuits in your house you have a decision to make.

You essentially need to put that 1000w on it's own 15Amp circuit. I've run it on a circuit with just a small A/C unit on it and it turned out ok but was running the circuit close to max when the A/C kicked on.

Do what you can to isolate a circuit in your house and put just that lamp on it. If you can, the best would be to have a new cable run from your power box, just for your grow room.

Good luck!!!

 

[madpenguin]

It sounds like a locked rotor amperage issue at your main panel hot buss. Not uncommon at all but if it happens with a 23 watt CFL then somethings not right. Make sure your correct in that observation.

Most high draw appliances will have an LRA rating on the name plate. Some A/C units can draw up to 100 amp or more when they first start. That's why a 100 amp main can handle much more than a 100 amp draw for a limited time before it trips.

First thing I'd do is return the ballast. That or take the ballast somewhere else and do the same test you did with the bulb. Induce another current on the same circuit or even on another one if that fails. If it goes out, you can likely blame the ballast. If it doesn't, then I'd probably yank all your breakers and inspect both hot busses... Coil ballasts are a finicky beast and your not likely to notice the same issue with other hardware.

In fact, I'd probably go with a digital ballast. They handle amperage and voltage drains alot better than old school coils. That and they are much more efficient. From what I hear, coils will become "illegal" this year or the next for use in residential applcations. They are that inefficient.

If it is a LRA issue, sometimes you can move the offending circuit to the very top of the panel so the branch circuit is as close to the main feeder cable as possible. But ussually, you just have to live with it.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

It sounds like a locked rotor amperage issue at your main panel hot buss.

Yeah, ya lost me right about there. LOL

Definitely go with MadPenguin's advice. Much more thorough explanation (and knowledge) than I could ever give.

 

[madpenguin]

Sorry. LRA just means that the offending high draw motor draws way more current than it's operating amperage. All motors do it to one degree or another. Just for a split second, right as they start up.

As an example, I just saw my table lamp flicker 2 seconds ago. I know that my dehumidifier is on that same circuit so I also know the compressor motor on the dehumidifier just kicked on. Must be higher than 50% RH up there.... I'm still working on being able to tell ppm's by looking at my light but haven't come up with anything yet....

When the light's dim, it's because something else is creating an inrush of power on that circuit, or if it's really bad, it will effect your entire panel by putting a drain on your hot buss in the panel (what your breakers stab onto). That's why a completely isolated/dedicated circuit can still be affected by your refrigerator, furnace or outside AC unit. It put's such a draw on the hot buss bars in the panel that it robs the remaining circuits temporarily. My fridge does the same thing. It's on it's own 20A circuit but my kitchen lights ever so slightly dim when it kicks on. Not too much you can do about it but try to move the fridge breaker all the way to the top of the panel. Even that doesn't work sometimes.

Eh... anyway. I'm guessing the ballast is bad or you have a loose connection in the panel somewhere or that core&coil ballast is just being true to form and being picky about it's input voltage.

 

[spyvsspy]

Wow, thanks for the responses madpenguin and Hydro-Soil. Some interesting information there, + rep for the both of yuz.
One more variable to consider:
When I use my 400 watt HPS set up with magnetic ballast on the exact same circuit,which is what I using now in the mean-time, it doesn't even flinch when my AC , fridge or garage opener turns on, which would instantly kill my 1000 watt...............would this point toward a definite ballast issue on my 1000 watt??

Thanks everyone for your time and effort, it is much appreciated.
-spy

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Wow, thanks for the responses madpenguin and Hydro-Soil. Some interesting information there, + rep for the both of yuz.
One more variable to consider:
When I use my 400 watt HPS set up with magnetic ballast on the exact same circuit,which is what I using now in the mean-time, it doesn't even flinch when my AC , fridge or garage opener turns on, which would instantly kill my 1000 watt...............would this point toward a definite ballast issue on my 1000 watt??

Thanks everyone for your time and effort, it is much appreciated.
-spy

I'd say it points to that circuit being overloaded or, yes a bad ballast. Hell, it could be the wiring in your house is wired wrong and your whole system is maxed out when your ballast is turned on.

Have you isolated a circuit so that the ballast is the only thing on it? This means that there's a switch in your breaker box (Hopefully you're not running fuses) that you can turn to 'off' and all it turns off is your ballast, it's isolated on it's own circuit. If you do that and all your plugs, wall-sockets and wires stay cool to the touch, you're peachy and it's not the ballast. If the socket or anything gets warm-hot to the touch, you're overloading the circuit and it's probably the ballast.

If you have it on an isolated circuit and it STILL cuts out when the fridge kicks on, the wiring in your house is not properly set up.

Without a professional looking into it, I'd stick with the 400w. Definitely get a professional electrician in there if at all possible. Fires suck for you and everyone around you.

Good luck!!!!

 

[cocktail frank]

its called lag.
when a big appliance kicks on, it distorts the electrical sine wave.
thus the voltage dips down to a level which causes the transformer(ballast) to fall out.
numerous things can cause this.
sometimes this happens to every circuit in the house.
not just the one w/ the appliance plugged in.
it affects the whole system.

 

[madpenguin]

Phase lag due to motor inductance? That's going deeper than I care to talk about. IMO, sine wave distortion would be an effect, not the initial cause. LRA can be up to 5x of the FLA (full load amperage).

So, either way you slice it, the primary side of the ballast in question probably doesn't like the voltage it sees in that situation. If it does it on every circuit in the house as the OP suggests, then there's not a whole lot that can be done besides return it. I'd be willing to bet that a digital won't be as susceptible.

Core&Coil's are truely ancient technology. Don't like em' for many reasons.

 

[spyvsspy]

Wow, thanks again for all the input madpenguin, CocktailFrank and Hydro_Soil, a big +rep to all of you.
I talked with the people at HTG and they are sending me a new bulb and a new capacitor for the ballast, which apparently is a "drop in" piece. I told him my whole dilemma and he seemed to think it was a bad capacitor that somehow effected the bulb. Does this sound like a possible explanation??

Either way, I am going to stick with the 400 until the new equipment arrives, try it again, and if its not fixed after one try, get my buddy the electrician over here to see what he can figure out.
But does a bad capacitor seem like a POSSIBLE answer??? Thanks again for the input and I will keep yall posted.
-Spy

 

[Hydro-Soil]

But does a bad capacitor seem like a POSSIBLE answer??? Thanks again for the input and I will keep yall posted.
-Spy

Glad to hear they're sending you a replacement ignitor. Kinda tough to blow out a coil and (since it's vibrating) I'd say the coil is fine.

As for blowing the bulb, dunno. A cracked lamp will go out as soon as it reaches a high enough internal pressure to leak through the crack and then the arc goes out. Just have to see.

Here's hoping!