What should I add to my rez to fix this problem!?!? Please help!

[Ms Carter]

Please help me out hydro experts. This is my first attempt at hydro, and I don't want to have to scrap the entire thing. It's ebb and gro 9 buckets; 55 gallon rez. Please tell me what to add to my rez to fix these leaves. I have just about everything on hand. Thanks.

What STRAIN are you growing?
Power Plant

What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)
From Seed

What is the age of your plants?
About 5 weeks from seed. They grow INCREDIBLY FAST!

What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Still in Veg. 3 days from flower

What Technique are you using?
Ebb and Gro

What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)
Hydroton

What is the Nutrient temperature?
75 w/ airstone

What Nutrient's are you using?
GH Flora 3 series. Lucas formula 1:2 ratio Micro/Bloom

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?
PPM is between 85-95

What is the pH of the "Tank"?
5.9 right now

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?
Yup!

What size bulb are you using?
1k

 

[Ms Carter]

A couple more pics. The temps in the room remain around 79-81. I'm not sure what could be causing the leaves to roll up like that. I would think the discoloring might be an N def., but I would really appreciate some advice.

I have a couple soil plants in the same room, and they look amazingly perfect!

 

[Ms Carter]

Please help guys. If you have a safe addy, I'll send you some AK-47 seeds (if that's allowed). PLLLLEEEAAASSSEEE

 

[Weedhound]

What exactly do you mean about ppm of tank 85-95? And does your ph jump around alot and do you have to adjust often? How close is your light? What kind of cooling system do you have for a 1kw?

What else have you put in the res? You say you have everything.....what have you put in there already?

 

[Ms Carter]

I'm sorry, PPMS are stable at about 850 (it reads 85 on my meter, but it's in x10). The only time the PPM moves is up, when the water is reduced in the tank. The light is about 2 feet away from the tops of the plants. My cooling system consists of a 12" vortex and an 8" vortex. I have serious over-kill when it comes to cooling, plus I have A/C. Room temps stay in the 78-82 range.

All I have in my rez is the lucas formula for the GH Flora series, and cal-mag. I'm always scared of burning my plants, so I don't have a ton of it in there. I don't want to add more until I get some advice from people like you (the hydro experts). I have everything on hand that I use for my soil grows. My soil plants look perfect and are in the same exact environment. So what do you think?

 

[Ms Carter]

I know that heat is indicative of the "taco" effect, but it is not too hot in there, so it has to be some nutrient (or lack thereof) causing the leaves to roll up like a cigar.

 

[Pirate]

OUCH !!! That hurts.

Are you in a grow tent and if so.......what kind and when did you buy it. What is the interior made of? PVC ? Have you used it before this grow?
What type of water are ya using. Tap or RO?
If using Tap / What is the PPMs from the faucet?
How are you getting 850 to 950 PPMs with Lucas if using a 1:2 ratio? (Normally that would give ya 1330+ PPMs).

Everything you mentioned above sounds right on the money.........Except maybe the rez temp (try and get it down to 72*F MAX. But thats not what's causing this. The leaves look curled due to heat stress. But they are also FRIED to the max. Back the light off to 4 feet if possible. Leaf curl can also be due to a mag deficinecy. (do not fix with calmag) Burning may also be nutrient lockout. Explain your nutrient mixing procedure.

When was the last flush? If never...........Start there. Flush Now and run plain PH adjusted water for several days. (When in Doubt, Flush it out") Eliminate the CalMag. You don't need it right now. Probably never will. Your PH is good. Does it remain stable or do you have to adjust it a lot?

No Matter what anybody tells you...........DO NOT ADD ANYTHING other than the basic nutrients!! That will surely be the end of these plants.

There is a lot going on here........everything from heat stress to nute burn and all in between.

Keep in mind........The leaves will never return to normal and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but they may be to far gone. The whole plant looks fried. There is no way you can flower these in 3 days. They will need to recover first and that will most likely take weeks.

Can you get more photos WITHOUT the HPS on. The yellow light makes a diagnosis difficult.

If you heard nothing else......here this........FLUSH NOW!! (with PH corrected water).


Hang tight.........we'll try and save em !!

EDIT:
Don't give up on hydro. Its actually easier than soil once you understand it.

 

[Ms Carter]

Pirate, me and hubby thanks you much!

I added some of the GH Nova (Micro/Grow/Bloom), plus I added Cal-mag (before I read your post). I don't use any additional nutrients. I can't imagine that it is heat stress, because it is simply not hot. I'm going to be doing a rez change on Friday, and I'll run some pure PH adjusted water for about 2-3 days before sending them into flower.

I'm going to move them across the room under a different lighting system where the lights can be raised several feet higher than the lights they are currently under. I am using TAP water, and I believe the PPM's of the tap is between 350-400. I don't quite remember b/c last time I checked was about 2 months ago.

I'm not giving up on hydro yet, I just have to figure it out. I didn't learn until afterwards that Power Plant is a very difficult plant to grow in hydro. I've had unbelievable success with it in soil. Hopefully the added nutrients will help the deficiencies. I felt as if I was underfertting them more than anything. So I guess we'll see.

I'd hate to loose the entire crop. These plants are about 3 feet tall and like 2-3 feet wide now. They are HUGE!

 

[Pirate]

Pirate, me and hubby thanks you much!

I added some of the GH Nova (Micro/Grow/Bloom), plus I added Cal-mag (before I read your post). I don't use any additional nutrients. I can't imagine that it is heat stress, because it is simply not hot. I'm going to be doing a rez change on Friday, and I'll run some pure PH adjusted water for about 2-3 days before sending them into flower.

I'm going to move them across the room under a different lighting system where the lights can be raised several feet higher than the lights they are currently under. I am using TAP water, and I believe the PPM's of the tap is between 350-400. I don't quite remember b/c last time I checked was about 2 months ago.

I'm not giving up on hydro yet, I just have to figure it out. I didn't learn until afterwards that Power Plant is a very difficult plant to grow in hydro. I've had unbelievable success with it in soil. Hopefully the added nutrients will help the deficiencies. I felt as if I was underfertting them more than anything. So I guess we'll see.

I'd hate to loose the entire crop. These plants are about 3 feet tall and like 2-3 feet wide now. They are HUGE!

Do your self a favor and flush !!

I don't want you to lose the crop. Trust me. .......If you let it go till Friday with what you just put in there.......They may be unsaveable.

Can you explain your Lucas Formula calculation method?

Here is what I came up with:
1350 (target) - 350 (Tap) / 1350 (Target) = 1000 x 8 mills Nova x 55 gallons = 325 mills of Nova total. Nothing more.

If you put more than 325 Mills of Flora Nova in the rez...........you put to much based on your tap waters PPMs. (but I would run plain water for sure). Adding nutrients right now is risky biznus and will surely end in disaster. I do not believe you are dealin with a deficiency here.
.
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[Ms Carter]

Pirate, I ran the lucas formula ratio 2:1 (until now), however, I did not maximize nutrients based on 55 gal. I think I fead at half or less than half strenght due to fear of fert burn. I have been growing in soil for 10+ years, so I got pretty good at feeding exact nutes. I am on a tight schedule and I am going to have to force flower within the next 4-6 days. I grew an entire crop of soil along side, just incase I screwed it up (which it looks like I am going to do.

I guess we'll have to see what happens. Not all the plants are that bad, and some still have a lot of green. A lot of the leaves just looked like they were suffering from n-def and cal-def, which is why i fed. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Pirate]

Fingers Crossed.

Good Luck. :smile:
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[Weedhound]

You are in good hands here Mrs C....I have never tried to Lucas formula myself. I must second Pirate in that they look fairly burned; are you using any root products?

 

[drdee]

Hi Ms Carter,
I've done a few E&F runs but was using different nutes. Power Plant is a mostly African sativa if I recall and shouldn't be a nute hog.

E&F is tolerant of higher res temps. You're probably OK there but you might try and lower it a bit. People use bottles of ice which work on a temporary basis.

My biggest concern is the ppm of your tap water. That's too high for hydro...I wouldn't water dirt plants with it. All that calcium messes with things and makes it really hard to keep ph in range. Even if you could go 50% RO water from the store...that would be much better. Can't recall...you are using hard water micro? And if not, you should be.
Good luck and Peace,
Dee

 

[Ms Carter]

To flush and Ebb and Gro system, can I just run PH corrected plan tap water for a couple days? The plants won't die from the lack of nutes?

 

[Ms Carter]

As far as root products go, I just got a bottle of hygrozyme. I haven't used it yet.

 

[Pirate]

To flush and Ebb and Gro system, can I just run PH corrected plan tap water for a couple days? The plants won't die from the lack of nutes?

They won't die. They will recover.

You could run for weeks without nutrients.
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[drdee]

To flush and Ebb and Gro system, can I just run PH corrected plan tap water for a couple days? The plants won't die from the lack of nutes?

That would be fine Ms. Carter. And I don't see that it would hurt anything to treat the plants as if there was be a root rot problem. I've never used the hydrozyme but isn't it more prevention rather then cure? Hydrogen peroxide is what people use to treat root rot.

Here's a scenario that could have happened. One plant may have gotten sick from a kinked hose blocking outflow (or roots or something...) and then it spreads throughout.

I had a Hempy Bucket get root rot because a hydroton ball blocked the outflow. Generally though, root rot isn't an issue with E&F. How long are your flood periods?
Peace,
Dee

 

[Ms Carter]

Flood periods are only 15 minutes every 4 hours continuous.

 

[drdee]

Flood periods are only 15 minutes every 4 hours continuous.

General consensus is that you don't need to flood during lights off. All my grows are with 4 15 minute floods during lights on period. I don't think though that that's related to your current problems.

Let us know how the flush goes. The plants have loads of stored nutrient reserves. Hope they recover soon. Watch the new growth.
Peace,
Dee

 

[Ms Carter]

Well it seems that the pump in the controller bucket came loose from his suction and was hitting one of the float valves, causing it to click on constantly. I'm not sure if this would effect the water line that the float valve controls, but I have corrected this problem. I'm going to run them for another day or two at the current nutrient level, and then give them a good flush prior to flowering. They are looking better with the added nutrients.