Bad ballast, bulb, or timer?

[Nathindica]

Hi everyone.

I just bought a 250 watt MH bulb and ballast for my new veg area. I tested it in the wall socket and it was fine. Now he ballast is plugged into a power strip which is plugged into a timer, which is on another power strip which is in the wall. BUT when it's time to come on.... it won't fire. I can see it trying to, but it's just the little blue lightning thing and it won't fire up the intense light. Sorry, I'm not an electrician, but I think you know what I mean. When the timer goes ON the electricity flows but the lamp will not fire unless I unplug the male cord coming from the lamp hood from the female ballast piece, wait a minute, and plug it back in. Then the lamp fires immediately. WHY? Why can't it just fire by itself?



Which piece is the weak link? Lamp? Ballast? Or timer?

BTW.. the hydro store guy told me a ballast that was marked 250 watt HPS is perfectly fine to use with a MH. is this true?

THANKS everyone!

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I am thinking too many links in the chain. Too many power strips.

A HPS ballast will fire a MH bulb but it is not suggested. HPS ballasts have an ignitor that will keep trying to fire a HPS bulb. This may cause shorter life on the ballast or lamp, or both. It is possible to remove the ignitor from the circuit by cutting one wire.

The HPS ballast may also be the issue to the light not starting.

 

[Pseudo]

i would say ditch the power strips, if your ballast wont reach the wall, buy the shortest 12 or 14 ga cord you can find and try that, it it works, try it with your timer, if it flickers, go buy a heavy duty timer

 

[Hydro-Soil]

BTW.. the hydro store guy told me a ballast that was marked 250 watt HPS is perfectly fine to use with a MH. is this true?

THANKS everyone!

Yes, if it's a Ceramic Metal Halide. Get a 250w Philips Retro-White bulb and put it in there. Plug the timer into the first power strip and plug the lamp directly into the timer. Please use a timer rated for high current loads.

 

[Nathindica]

sure enough... it was the timer. couldn't handle the power. I bought another digital timer (same as i use on my 600W HPS for flower)... and it worked perfectly. no delay at all upon lights on time.

Thanks for the help everyone. May the dank be with you.

 

[Nathindica]

ok. false alarm. something is still wrong here.

it didnt fire again this morning. i took the bulb and the ballast to my hydro store and had my guy test them and everything was fine. i even bought a heavy duty intermac timer to be 100% SURE it wasnt my timer.

i just got home from the dro store... plugged everything in. and it didnt fire. again... i can see litrle blue mini lightning bolt flickering around in the blub... but it doesnt fire.

now i'm thinking.. is there a chance the bedroom circuit doesnt have enough juice for my 600W HPS and 6'' vortex for my flowering cab as well as this new veg area? is that what could be causing my lamp to not fire?

although... my veg light is supposed to come on an hour before my flowering light... so when it's supposed to fire the HPS isnt even on yet. i don't know what the hell is wrong. why won't my lamp fire?

HELP!

 

[Nathindica]

could it be a shitty connection somewhere in the wire coming from the socket to the ballast? i got it as a gift from a friend who stopped growing. its the only thing thats not brand new.

I turned off my vortex and all fans and lights besides my 600 HPS and tried to get my MH to fire but it wouldn't, which makes me think it's not that the room can;t handle the electricity.

but if electricity flows (as evident by the little blue lightning looking stuff as it tried to fire) is it a faulty connection? would a faulty connection cause it go off and on and not not constantly trying to fire?

im sorry if this is confusing. but its just as confusing for me. time to do some research on ballasts to figure out how they work.

any ideas?

 

[JamieShoes]

whats the distance in cable from the socket to the ballast?

and when the hydro guy tested it, what was the main difference between how he set it up and how you have it?

did he use his own reflector and bulb socket. did he have any interuption between the socket and the ballast (like power strips or timers, extention cables) what lengh cable did he use, and is yours rated the same?



(p.s i know very little about ballasts or electrics - but this is how I would approach it if it were me)
(p.p.s and if i couldnt figure it out myself quickly, I'd go back to the hydro store, have him hook it all up again. pay him for the new parts and take it home whole - cable and reflector (cheap one) is about 20 bucks :wink

 

[Nathindica]

well when the guy tested it in the hydro store he just took the bulb and ballast into the room where he builds all the ballasts and electrical stuff and he just plugged everything in and it fired just fine. he had a socket attatched to the wall and outlets all ready to go... looks like he does a lot of testing there considering he builds the all the ballasts.

im thinking its the socket and cable. the cable attached to the socket is 8 feet long. wired by my friend a couple years ago. if a connection were loose somewhere.. would the bulb even try to fire or would electricity not flow? ever heard of a lamp trying to fire but cant because of a faulty cable putting a damper on the flow of electricity?

hm...

Thanks for the help JS and anyone else who can offer some knowledge.

 

[Nathindica]

sorry i was describing the wrong cable. the one coming from the 250 MH is over 10 feet long. looks like 12 or so. too long?

 

[JamieShoes]

I've heard that some cable won't run some ballasts as theres not enough of a "kick" getting up the line... I heard this about lower rated ballasts and long cable though... In my own experiance... and I dont know why, if my bulbs have been running but for some reason the power is interupted... then I have to unplug everything else in the room before they'll fire again (thats only when they're hot though, the rest of the time they're fine)


no need for thanks mate, if any of my ramblings help you suss this out, it'll be thanks enough :smile:

 

[ClearBarbedFunk]

the starter inside your ballast is on the way out bro. theres only 3 parts in there, starter, capacitior and transformer. very easy electronics.

you can get a complete rebuild/innards for a 1000w for 100 bucks, 600w less, or you can just order the starter.

starters will only fire a certain distance like 10 ft or so. so at the shop may have been a shorter cable then you have on your lamp.

ive been through what your experiencein, and i keep changin bulbs, untill it finally shit the bed.

CBF

 

[Nathindica]

i just unconnected absolutely everything and put it back together. Took apart the socket... disconnected the wire and reconnected it to find it not work. I walked arou d the house trying to fire it on various outlets.

I think.. especially after those last two comments (AWESOME. THANK YOU BOTH) i think it must be in the cable. I still have time to run to the local hardware store.... what grade of cable do i need? the grow store is a good half an hour drive so i'd like to get the cable locally if i can...

THANK YOU!

 

[JamieShoes]

in europe we call it "2,5mm" ... or "3 x 2,5mm"


google says thats a tenth of an inch (2,5 mm = 0,0984251969 inches)

 

[Nathindica]

new cable. went to the hardware store and got cable that said it could handle 1,250 watts. should be able to handle 250 in that case, yes?

still wont fire.

have i screwed up my ignitor or something else in the ballast by trying to get it fire so many times?

holy hell this is frustrating. i just want my plants to get the best! sigh. i'm going to smoke some pot and relax.

new timer... new cables... (ballast and blulb are only 5 days old)... what the BALLS is wrong?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

new cable. went to the hardware store and got cable that said it could handle 1,250 watts. should be able to handle 250 in that case, yes?

still wont fire.

have i screwed up my ignitor or something else in the ballast by trying to get it fire so many times?

holy hell this is frustrating. i just want my plants to get the best! sigh. i'm going to smoke some pot and relax.

new timer... new cables... (ballast and blulb are only 5 days old)... what the BALLS is wrong?

You looked on the bulb and it says MH.... and you look on your ballast and it says HPS. Is this correct?

Did the hydro shop guy use his own bulb or did you screw your bulb into his hood? If not, have you tried a new bulb?

 

[Nathindica]

he used my bulb and my ballast. just his sockets, wires, and electricity.

yes my bulb is a MH and my ballast is marked as an HPS. I confirmed this with my hydro guy today and said an HPS can fire a MH bulb just fin but a MH ballast can't fire an HPS bulb.

So. electricity flows... the bulb gloess a dim blue... but it doesn't fire up all the way. sometimes it fires for a split second right when i plug it in but then it just goes back to the dim blue light from the electric current in the bulb.

whyyyyyyy wont it fiiiiiiiiire?

 

[Nathindica]

im going to the hydro store today. my guy is making me a new 250W ballast specifically for MH... im getting a new bulb (cheap as hell, why not)... and if he's got an extra wired up socket around i'll get that too.

if the light isn't on tonight... my veg area is cursed. that's all there is to it.

let's hope it isn't cursed, yes?

 

[JamieShoes]

mate, grab a HPS bulb while youre there and see if it fires in teh old set up (labelled hps).. if you can spare the cash I mean... what you might then find is that you're already set up for flowering later on :smile:


best of luck
j

 

[Hydro-Soil]

im going to the hydro store today. my guy is making me a new 250W ballast specifically for MH... im getting a new bulb (cheap as hell, why not)... and if he's got an extra wired up socket around i'll get that too.

if the light isn't on tonight... my veg area is cursed. that's all there is to it.

let's hope it isn't cursed, yes?

Let's hope it isn't a home wiring electrical problem. Had one of those, cost me 2 $400+ electric bills and nearly burnt the house down. In addition to dangerous wiring in the house, a mouse had chewed through a wire and caused a short that was running power through a lot of metal objects and creating glowing hot spots.
Place was like that when we moved in.