Wow.... who knew the definition was so fuzzy? Or is it just everyone here that's fuzzy? 
)
)
Soil vs. Soiless
- Thread starter MJane'spoontang
- Start date
Well 6.2-6.8 has not worked with my medium. I tried all around 6.5 and still lockout and twisted growth which clearly indicates ph problems imo.
Are you mixing anything else into your pro-mix?
Canna told me 5.7-6.0 for vegetative and maybe down to 5.2 during bloom depending on a whole host of circumstances; type of plants grown, co2, temps, etc...
I flushed and fed at 5.8. I expect normal green growth in the next couple of days.
Just to make clear. I am using Canna's BioCanna line of medium. It is called Bio Terra Plus. Contains canna coco, white peat moss and shredded tree bark. It is soil-less even though they added a few organic nutrients that don't last for more than a week.
organicmunk
Member
im pretty sure the difference between the two has nothing/little to do with nutes it has to do with what the mix is composed of if the mix has dirt in it like garden soil then it is a soil mix if it is made up of peat, pumice, perlite, sand, vermiculite, coconut coir then it would be soilless because there is no soil in it hence soilless and the PH for both should be between 6.5 and 7
Last edited:
I second organicmund.
Soil has as its main ingredient mineral earth--topsoil, clay, sand, etc.
Soilless has as its main ingredient peat, coir, or pumice, etc.
Either mix can be injected by the maker with nutrients, either chemical or organic. Either can have naturally-occurring or added microbial action.
Both should be regarded as soil for the purposes of pH. Low pH nutrient mixes (5.8-6.2) are frequently well-tolerated, because both soil and soilless mixes usually have a buffer ingredient--dolomite lime, ground oyster shell, or some other substance, that balances the acidity of chemical nutrients.
Soil has as its main ingredient mineral earth--topsoil, clay, sand, etc.
Soilless has as its main ingredient peat, coir, or pumice, etc.
Either mix can be injected by the maker with nutrients, either chemical or organic. Either can have naturally-occurring or added microbial action.
Both should be regarded as soil for the purposes of pH. Low pH nutrient mixes (5.8-6.2) are frequently well-tolerated, because both soil and soilless mixes usually have a buffer ingredient--dolomite lime, ground oyster shell, or some other substance, that balances the acidity of chemical nutrients.
I noticed you made mention of coco in your listing of soilless mediums and then state that soilless should be between 6.5 and 7. That is way off. Not trying to pick on you. May want to go into the coco forum. Coco needs to be at 5.8.
Any way I got my medium down to 5.9 and all the new growth is coming out healthy. Thought I would report the results. And if you want to see the response from canna I can post that too. My problem is solved. Thanks for the help all.
organicmunk
Member
i said made up of not containing all you may want to listen before you make another dumbass remark no shit is has to be 5.5-6.5 its a hydroponic medium you run it the same as hydroponics but when you amend your soilless mix (which is what we were talking about right not hydroponic mediums)with coco you want a ph of 6.5-6.8 dick
What part of your own statement do you not understand. You are saying here that soilless needs to be at a ph of 6.5-7. You may want to articulate your messages better. I won't resort to your name calling. It is apparent you are immature and need more education.
Last edited:
organicmunk
Member
dude what are you talking about just because is contains coir doesn't mean its a coco medium and that doesn't mean you have to run a 5.8 ph i run a 35% mix and its at 6.5 and my plants look amazing coir is not a soilless medium its a hydroponic medium i guess you can call it a soilless but then i suppose you consider rockwool and hydroton soilless also.... dude its quite obvious your the one in need of education
Ok everyone play nice. Coco coir alone does need a lower pH, but many people mix it with soil or other types of soilless.
My message to canna:
I am using straight bio terra plus as a growing medium in 3 gallon pots. I am using another brand of liguid nutrients and have been feeding with a ph of 6.5 like soil. I have been having deficiency problems. What is the proper ph for this medium if one does choose to adjust their ph. Since this product is basically soil-less and contains coco should I be treating this like a coco medium which would require a lower ph range, 5.8-6.0. Also, my problem is not related to over fertilization and lock out attributed to. I am thinking more like ph lockout, hence my question. Your answer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Canna's response:
Hello,
The pH of the medium is adjusted to stay between 5.2 and 6.2 across a minimum of 3-6 months. It will vary based on water practice, plant type, type of nutrients, CO2 use, temperature, etc, etc, etc. However, it will remain in that range. The zone immediately around the surface of the root will have even greater fluctuations in pH as the plant 'Looks' for more of 1 thing or another such as when it shifts to flower and it's Phosphorous need greatly increases and it drops the pH. In natural settings, the soil does not suddenly drop in pH when a plant needs for it too such as when going into flower, unlike the way some would think, the roots themselves do the work and the soil 'buffers' the pH in a range. The same mode of action, and, in fact, basic material does the work as in this soiless mix (BTP, TPP, Pro Mix, etc). So the soiless mix system works like plants evolved. The physical and chemical characteristics of every batch of our medium is taken, compared and recorded.
I do not think it is a media pH issue.
The feed characteristics are the same as soiless medium or mineral soil. Allowances for the coco fraction have been made in the formulation of the mix including the organic constituents which also act as a feed.
Perhaps your issue is a pH rebound issue. The medium is trying to hold upper 5's and you are feeding 100 times stronger (pH is a 10 fold increase every .1 change). When the pH slams like that then it can create issues not only with the pH but also the plant. If you are in vegetative growth then pH the nutrients to about 5.7 - 6.0, the floral side would be closer to 5.2 - 5.7.
Good Luck,
Re-read the post because I think you have confused yourself. I posted my results and the turn around. Enough said.
I am using straight bio terra plus as a growing medium in 3 gallon pots. I am using another brand of liguid nutrients and have been feeding with a ph of 6.5 like soil. I have been having deficiency problems. What is the proper ph for this medium if one does choose to adjust their ph. Since this product is basically soil-less and contains coco should I be treating this like a coco medium which would require a lower ph range, 5.8-6.0. Also, my problem is not related to over fertilization and lock out attributed to. I am thinking more like ph lockout, hence my question. Your answer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Canna's response:
Hello,
The pH of the medium is adjusted to stay between 5.2 and 6.2 across a minimum of 3-6 months. It will vary based on water practice, plant type, type of nutrients, CO2 use, temperature, etc, etc, etc. However, it will remain in that range. The zone immediately around the surface of the root will have even greater fluctuations in pH as the plant 'Looks' for more of 1 thing or another such as when it shifts to flower and it's Phosphorous need greatly increases and it drops the pH. In natural settings, the soil does not suddenly drop in pH when a plant needs for it too such as when going into flower, unlike the way some would think, the roots themselves do the work and the soil 'buffers' the pH in a range. The same mode of action, and, in fact, basic material does the work as in this soiless mix (BTP, TPP, Pro Mix, etc). So the soiless mix system works like plants evolved. The physical and chemical characteristics of every batch of our medium is taken, compared and recorded.
I do not think it is a media pH issue.
The feed characteristics are the same as soiless medium or mineral soil. Allowances for the coco fraction have been made in the formulation of the mix including the organic constituents which also act as a feed.
Perhaps your issue is a pH rebound issue. The medium is trying to hold upper 5's and you are feeding 100 times stronger (pH is a 10 fold increase every .1 change). When the pH slams like that then it can create issues not only with the pH but also the plant. If you are in vegetative growth then pH the nutrients to about 5.7 - 6.0, the floral side would be closer to 5.2 - 5.7.
Good Luck,
Re-read the post because I think you have confused yourself. I posted my results and the turn around. Enough said.
greenzilla
New member
hello,richy,just wanted to know how u got on,i using canna tera plus at 6.0-6.5 ,what should i be at .im in flowing 1 of 3 plants looks ill at top,tips n margins burnt ,is it wrong ph as others seem ok,1st grow.thanks
maryj315
Member
Try to keep your potting mixes PH at around 6.2.....
Soil: This is in reference to actual garden soil or field soil, the dirt that comes from the ground....
Soilless: This is in reference to things like Peat, Coir, or anyother ingredient that is not "soil".....
You'll hear different opinions on this so beware....Hope this helps....LC
__________________
Yes it's "soilless"....And regardless of whether it soil or soilless, the ph is still the same, 6.2.....Hydro ph is different at around 5.5 or so, but don't get hydro confused with soilless....However, anything that you add is going to change the ph, so keep an eye on the ph if you want to....LC
Well this is the the best answer i could find on this subject works for me
Mj
Soil: This is in reference to actual garden soil or field soil, the dirt that comes from the ground....
Soilless: This is in reference to things like Peat, Coir, or anyother ingredient that is not "soil".....
You'll hear different opinions on this so beware....Hope this helps....LC
__________________
Yes it's "soilless"....And regardless of whether it soil or soilless, the ph is still the same, 6.2.....Hydro ph is different at around 5.5 or so, but don't get hydro confused with soilless....However, anything that you add is going to change the ph, so keep an eye on the ph if you want to....LC
Well this is the the best answer i could find on this subject works for me
Mj
moonymonkey
Active member
did u ever consider volume as a factor in ph? xxxxxxxxxxx
