OnceWasShang.
New member
Greetz!
Some may know me, some may not...I've been around my fair share of communities...seen some good forums come and go. I generally tend to stay away from forums these days and advertising my hobby to the public but I am a big Cannabis supporter and would definitely describe myself as a Cannagrapher so I figured maybe i can find my new home here? I have been growing for a few years now, and I've got the basics down..I would even go as far as to say I'm slightly advanced in the field of Cannabis Horticulture..But like I like to say about my plants and my knowledge alike, theres alllllllllways room for growth!
The main reason I'm here is to get some input/advice and feedback on my plan to begin a micro-grow in a PC case. Before I decide to do anything, I always do a lot of research and spend some time planning instead of just jumping into things, I would rather plan and design correctly now, instead of jumping into things and fixing problems as they come up...
Now I know PC grows aren't big yielders; I know they have limited success and that many are skeptical that they're even possible...Let me just say now that yield is not as important to me as keeping up my hobby, I find growing to be fun and theraputic, and believe it or not- I like growing more than I like smoking. Of course I enjoy smoking, and wouldn't have gotten interested in growing without smoking, but big weights aren't neccesarily the main goal here.
I do prefer quality over quantity, as I grow purely for my personal stash, and again this grow project is mainly just to keep me growin while it's not normal growing season... ( i grow outdoor as well) So basically I would appreciate it if no one tried to talk me out of this, I believe one can grow a cannabis plant in a PC case, and until I do it for myself no one can talk me out of it..I would just like some help, I've read some good things about ICmag and I know theres a couple heads here that will be familiar. thanks
Strains?
I've got a pretty nicely sized stockpile of strains to select from...Im a seed collector, and I try to get my hands on as many strains as possible, whether I plan on soon growing them or not. Off the top of my head, here is some of my current stockpile:
Hempstar
Purple Power x ???
Purple Erkel
The Kali
Ice Cream
Chiesel
Big Buhhda Cheese
Dutch Passion Tundra (auto)
Auto AK47
Auto AK47 x diesel
White Dwarf (auto)
And there's probably some i've left out...as well as of course having a bunch of bagseed, and some seeds produced from hermi's in the past..I also have on the way: Ice, White Widow x Big Bud, and some Speed Queen.
Now, I know a lot of people assume autoflowers go great with PC cases, and I will probably run the Auto AK the first try in the case....But from what I've read and from my experience LSTing and Scrogging, I would assume that it would be just as easy, and quite possibly better yielding, to just use a normal, non-autoflowering strain using Screen of Green method, and veg her for about 2 weeks then flip 12/12.. My first ever Scrog I managed to keep about 10 inches from the stalk to the highest bud....than one plant scrogg'ed yielded me about 6oz dry...and couldve been more if i didnt run into pests and nute lockout....And that was a sativa.
So in short I would probably plan on goin with an auto flower for the first run just so things are guarenteed to stay short and so i can harvest quickly the first run to see if this will even work... Does anyone have any strain suggestions for micro grows, Again i am constantly updating my seed stock...Just like my plants and my knowledge, my seed stock is always growing...
So if you have strain suggestions or favorites especially for small grows, let me know so i can take it into consideration. Obviously I would stay away from sativas, and probably will do an indica dominant strain after the first run, maybe a kush? Indicas would also be a good choice because generally indica's have tighter, more dense nugs that still look real nice and frosty. Potency is key!!
~~~By the way, I orginally got most of these Autos for an outdoor experiment so i could have 3 harvests per outdoor season, if anyone has any info on Autoflowering outdoor, it would be greatly appreciated as well!~~~~~
What about lights?
I was originally very interested in the 150w hps club, and was planning on doing a 150w cooltubed HPS mounted at the top of the case, But after doing some more reading, and logical thinking.....I think that Im gonna go with a 70w HPS complemented by 100w or so of CFL....Not because I don't think 150 can't be done, but mostly because I think that the noise produced by the amount of fans neccesary to cool the 150 would make too much noise for the box to still be considered "stealth"....
In theory, if I was to use a 150w, I would have to use 2 fans on the cooltube, one on each side, one intake and one exhaust... In addition to a fan inside the case either aimed at the plant or just moving air around....PLUS i would likely need another exhaust fan because the existing exhaust fan would only be exhausting hot air from the cooltube, not the entire cab.
So, I figured a 70w HPS in a cooltube that only has an exhaust fan would be quieter. I would also then probably only need one other exhaust fan to get the hot air out of the case......since the rest of the cab will be CFLs, that don't get too hot. At most I would need 3 fans, instead of 4 as compared to using the 150w. While i'm not exactly in a situation where 100% stealth is required, I would like to make this PC box as hidden and stealthy as possible, so it can be replicated by people who need total stealth. In short, the PC needs to sound no louder than a hard working PC.
In addition to the noise-reduction issues that come along with a 150w, further reasearch has led me to believe that in the case of micro-grows, CFLs can be more effective due to the fact that they can be positioned soo much closer to the plants, within 2 inches or less from what I understand..We all know that nothing will out-perform HID lights in terms of yield and light penetration...
but what has caught my interest is some new research that has been done, showing how for growers with limited space, HIDs often do more harm than benefit..simply because of heat. Now I'm not talking thermal heat which is what most growers are most familiar with, which can be easily controlled by good ventialltion and cooling....I'm talking about Infared heat, which I've read cannot be controlled or removed with air circulation...From what I understand, there comes a point which putting a HPS any closer, will burn the plants, regardless of it's thermal heat...I guess on a cellular level?
Now I know that potency is a genetic trait, but i understand it can be affected by environment as well....for example a strain can be grown in what would be considered near perfect conditions and produce a product high in potency, but if that same strain is grown in conditions which have inadequate lighting, or poor nutrient levels...would produce bud that is not as potent as the same strain grown in better conditions. So we have established that Potency is a genetic trait which is evironmentally dependent. Because of that fact, I believe it is possible that one form of light can produce more potent buds than another form of light, my question to you...is which light form allows for maximum potency to be achieved? Here's my opinion and what i think:
I Know the topic of HPS vs. CFL is a controversial issue, and that I will not truely find an answer to which is "better" on the internet. I have found some very persuasive information however, that leads me to believe that CFLs, when used properly, can allow for more rapid photosynthesis, resulting in a higher rate of trichome production. Remember, We're not talking about bud density,yield, or even electricity efficiency...We're focusing on the ability of flourescent lighting to get so much closer to the plants, that it will encourage trichome growth on the surfaces which it does penetrate. And if the potency lies in the trichome prodution, it's only logical to thus assume, that CFLs, when used properly, have the ability to produce a large number of trichomes.
-But Wait, Shang! Don't HIDs have that same ability to produce trichomes? Well yes, but from what I've learned about Infared heat (feel free to correct me if im wrong) HPS's in my situation, would be too close to the plant, and would cause the bulbous heads of the trichomes to basically boil and explode, evaporating all the essential oils and resin neccesary..leaving the bud less potent by ratio of trichomes:surface area...in other words the ratio of trichomes(intact) to the surface area of the bud would be higher on the bud grown with CFLs than it would with HPS simply because less trichomes would be damaged. Is this correct? I know it would take a lotttt of CFL and probably more bulbs than i could fit in a PC but is it true that CFLs produce more potent buds when placed correctly?
Now comes the exciting topic of LED lighting....I am very interested in LEDs but have not been completely sold on their superiority to CFLs yet...I've done some reading, but I definitely need to do some more research and understanding of how LEDs work and how one LED differs from another, other than color. I was thinking of adding some flat LED panels to my grow, just in hopes that it would help...but i'd really love some input on this topic. I know the first generation LED UFO lights were crap, but i hear that they have since produced a far superior product, any legit information on this? i really need to understand nanometers and all this LED talk.
Sooo anyway my current plan is 1 70w cooltubed HPS in addition to 5 or 6 strategically placed CFLs....only flaw in design i can think of is moving the lights as the plant gets bigger...I thought i would just stack things under the plant and instead move the plant accordingly, but this might prove to fail, if i scrog, because i won't know where to put the screen because i cant predict how big the buds will get...
Soil, or Hydro?
While i consider myself an experienced soil grower, I have actually never gotten my feet wet, so to speak, in the wonderful world of hydroponics...I've always tried to be as organic as possible, and have always been under the impression that hydro-cultivated canni didnt taste or smell as good, and that it was less healthy for you than organic-soil grown bud. Now some people would go and say- Hey your putting a burning plant into your lungs, what do you care about your health? To that I would argue that Smoked cannabis has it's benefits and it's hazards, but the benefits outweigh the hazards, and is far healthier in comparison to other drugs and alcohol. That is a whole different issue i could go on about but the bottom line is- im health conscious.
But I'm completely open to the idea of Hydro, and have heard that while it does not affect the quality or potency of the bud, that growing hydroponically can produce higher yeilds, denser buds, and a quicker turn-around. I know a little about hydro, but would love to learn more!I would be willing to experiment with hydro once i have the PC case dialed in...maybe a small DWC setup or mini bubbler? Or maybe even a very mini hempy-style bucket? (i hope you're all familiar with hempy?
)
My current plan is to use organic soil in about a 1gallon container, possibly smaller if i'm growing an Auto...
Nutrients?
So to be completely honest, I am an experienced soil grower, but I've always kind of been a feel-for-it kind of grower...In other words, I don't do soil tests, test my water, use calculated nutrient scheduled feedings....Even though i probably should do all of the above. I know when a plant is hungry and when its over-eaten, and usually i know what to feed it if it's hungry...But i'm really not all that advanced in the field of nutrients...So in the past I've kind of always just feed my plants 100% organics either randomly or when they look like they need it, knowing that i cant realllllly do any irreversible damage since i used strict organics. And quite frankly, I've been very succesful, probably just very lucky...but for this grow, and hopefully all future grows, indoor or out...I would like to fine tune my skills with nutes. I would like to move away from the guess and hope game that i've been playing with my plants for quite some time now, and move into more calculated and precised feedings.
I know that roots grow most during veg and that plants use more N in veg and more Phosphates in flowering...and that seedlings and vegging plants require little to no extra nutrients besides whats in the soil, and that you're supposed to flush with straight water for the last 7-14 days of harvest....But i was curious on how this applies to growing Autos? I would assume you would give the auto bloom nutes almost right away, on a 20/4 lighting schedule?? Any info on nutrients and micro plant requirements would be appreciated.
Budget:
While I am on somewhat of a budget, and everyone is tight on money these days....I'm the kind of person who likes to do things right from the start, rather than take the cheap route and wait for the consequences of taking the easy way out...I like DIY and of course I'm looking for something cheap....but only if cheap and effective can go hand in hand..remember I am looking for quality and I would rather throw some bucks into it now, than have it be an unsuccessful grow, or a cheap alternative. In short- money is not an issue, as I would just like to get the Best, most efficient PC grow case at any cost.
Thanks to all who took the time to read this thread from start to finish-it took me some time to write, and actually 3 attempts, as the previous 2 attempts(yesterday) were deleted due to technical difficulties on my part once, and I was logged out in the process of typing this the other time.
I would really appreciate all relevant information, and would like to see some claims backed up with sources...but even if you don't have a source and you simply have an opinion, I want to hear from you! I would like to get the ball rolling on this project and have the box up and running by 4/20 so time is of the essence!
And just once more- the main reason I am looking to do this grow is to keep up my favorite hobby, to sharpen my skills, and to prove a PC grow, Seed-to-Weed can be done.No negative nancys are needed! Thanks again, Ill be checking back often!
Some may know me, some may not...I've been around my fair share of communities...seen some good forums come and go. I generally tend to stay away from forums these days and advertising my hobby to the public but I am a big Cannabis supporter and would definitely describe myself as a Cannagrapher so I figured maybe i can find my new home here? I have been growing for a few years now, and I've got the basics down..I would even go as far as to say I'm slightly advanced in the field of Cannabis Horticulture..But like I like to say about my plants and my knowledge alike, theres alllllllllways room for growth!
The main reason I'm here is to get some input/advice and feedback on my plan to begin a micro-grow in a PC case. Before I decide to do anything, I always do a lot of research and spend some time planning instead of just jumping into things, I would rather plan and design correctly now, instead of jumping into things and fixing problems as they come up...
Now I know PC grows aren't big yielders; I know they have limited success and that many are skeptical that they're even possible...Let me just say now that yield is not as important to me as keeping up my hobby, I find growing to be fun and theraputic, and believe it or not- I like growing more than I like smoking. Of course I enjoy smoking, and wouldn't have gotten interested in growing without smoking, but big weights aren't neccesarily the main goal here.
I do prefer quality over quantity, as I grow purely for my personal stash, and again this grow project is mainly just to keep me growin while it's not normal growing season... ( i grow outdoor as well) So basically I would appreciate it if no one tried to talk me out of this, I believe one can grow a cannabis plant in a PC case, and until I do it for myself no one can talk me out of it..I would just like some help, I've read some good things about ICmag and I know theres a couple heads here that will be familiar. thanks
Strains?
I've got a pretty nicely sized stockpile of strains to select from...Im a seed collector, and I try to get my hands on as many strains as possible, whether I plan on soon growing them or not. Off the top of my head, here is some of my current stockpile:
Hempstar
Purple Power x ???
Purple Erkel
The Kali
Ice Cream
Chiesel
Big Buhhda Cheese
Dutch Passion Tundra (auto)
Auto AK47
Auto AK47 x diesel
White Dwarf (auto)
And there's probably some i've left out...as well as of course having a bunch of bagseed, and some seeds produced from hermi's in the past..I also have on the way: Ice, White Widow x Big Bud, and some Speed Queen.
Now, I know a lot of people assume autoflowers go great with PC cases, and I will probably run the Auto AK the first try in the case....But from what I've read and from my experience LSTing and Scrogging, I would assume that it would be just as easy, and quite possibly better yielding, to just use a normal, non-autoflowering strain using Screen of Green method, and veg her for about 2 weeks then flip 12/12.. My first ever Scrog I managed to keep about 10 inches from the stalk to the highest bud....than one plant scrogg'ed yielded me about 6oz dry...and couldve been more if i didnt run into pests and nute lockout....And that was a sativa.
So in short I would probably plan on goin with an auto flower for the first run just so things are guarenteed to stay short and so i can harvest quickly the first run to see if this will even work... Does anyone have any strain suggestions for micro grows, Again i am constantly updating my seed stock...Just like my plants and my knowledge, my seed stock is always growing...
So if you have strain suggestions or favorites especially for small grows, let me know so i can take it into consideration. Obviously I would stay away from sativas, and probably will do an indica dominant strain after the first run, maybe a kush? Indicas would also be a good choice because generally indica's have tighter, more dense nugs that still look real nice and frosty. Potency is key!!~~~By the way, I orginally got most of these Autos for an outdoor experiment so i could have 3 harvests per outdoor season, if anyone has any info on Autoflowering outdoor, it would be greatly appreciated as well!~~~~~
What about lights?
I was originally very interested in the 150w hps club, and was planning on doing a 150w cooltubed HPS mounted at the top of the case, But after doing some more reading, and logical thinking.....I think that Im gonna go with a 70w HPS complemented by 100w or so of CFL....Not because I don't think 150 can't be done, but mostly because I think that the noise produced by the amount of fans neccesary to cool the 150 would make too much noise for the box to still be considered "stealth"....
In theory, if I was to use a 150w, I would have to use 2 fans on the cooltube, one on each side, one intake and one exhaust... In addition to a fan inside the case either aimed at the plant or just moving air around....PLUS i would likely need another exhaust fan because the existing exhaust fan would only be exhausting hot air from the cooltube, not the entire cab.
So, I figured a 70w HPS in a cooltube that only has an exhaust fan would be quieter. I would also then probably only need one other exhaust fan to get the hot air out of the case......since the rest of the cab will be CFLs, that don't get too hot. At most I would need 3 fans, instead of 4 as compared to using the 150w. While i'm not exactly in a situation where 100% stealth is required, I would like to make this PC box as hidden and stealthy as possible, so it can be replicated by people who need total stealth. In short, the PC needs to sound no louder than a hard working PC.
In addition to the noise-reduction issues that come along with a 150w, further reasearch has led me to believe that in the case of micro-grows, CFLs can be more effective due to the fact that they can be positioned soo much closer to the plants, within 2 inches or less from what I understand..We all know that nothing will out-perform HID lights in terms of yield and light penetration...
but what has caught my interest is some new research that has been done, showing how for growers with limited space, HIDs often do more harm than benefit..simply because of heat. Now I'm not talking thermal heat which is what most growers are most familiar with, which can be easily controlled by good ventialltion and cooling....I'm talking about Infared heat, which I've read cannot be controlled or removed with air circulation...From what I understand, there comes a point which putting a HPS any closer, will burn the plants, regardless of it's thermal heat...I guess on a cellular level?
Now I know that potency is a genetic trait, but i understand it can be affected by environment as well....for example a strain can be grown in what would be considered near perfect conditions and produce a product high in potency, but if that same strain is grown in conditions which have inadequate lighting, or poor nutrient levels...would produce bud that is not as potent as the same strain grown in better conditions. So we have established that Potency is a genetic trait which is evironmentally dependent. Because of that fact, I believe it is possible that one form of light can produce more potent buds than another form of light, my question to you...is which light form allows for maximum potency to be achieved? Here's my opinion and what i think:
I Know the topic of HPS vs. CFL is a controversial issue, and that I will not truely find an answer to which is "better" on the internet. I have found some very persuasive information however, that leads me to believe that CFLs, when used properly, can allow for more rapid photosynthesis, resulting in a higher rate of trichome production. Remember, We're not talking about bud density,yield, or even electricity efficiency...We're focusing on the ability of flourescent lighting to get so much closer to the plants, that it will encourage trichome growth on the surfaces which it does penetrate. And if the potency lies in the trichome prodution, it's only logical to thus assume, that CFLs, when used properly, have the ability to produce a large number of trichomes.
-But Wait, Shang! Don't HIDs have that same ability to produce trichomes? Well yes, but from what I've learned about Infared heat (feel free to correct me if im wrong) HPS's in my situation, would be too close to the plant, and would cause the bulbous heads of the trichomes to basically boil and explode, evaporating all the essential oils and resin neccesary..leaving the bud less potent by ratio of trichomes:surface area...in other words the ratio of trichomes(intact) to the surface area of the bud would be higher on the bud grown with CFLs than it would with HPS simply because less trichomes would be damaged. Is this correct? I know it would take a lotttt of CFL and probably more bulbs than i could fit in a PC but is it true that CFLs produce more potent buds when placed correctly?
Now comes the exciting topic of LED lighting....I am very interested in LEDs but have not been completely sold on their superiority to CFLs yet...I've done some reading, but I definitely need to do some more research and understanding of how LEDs work and how one LED differs from another, other than color.
I was thinking of adding some flat LED panels to my grow, just in hopes that it would help...but i'd really love some input on this topic. I know the first generation LED UFO lights were crap, but i hear that they have since produced a far superior product, any legit information on this? i really need to understand nanometers and all this LED talk.Sooo anyway my current plan is 1 70w cooltubed HPS in addition to 5 or 6 strategically placed CFLs....only flaw in design i can think of is moving the lights as the plant gets bigger...I thought i would just stack things under the plant and instead move the plant accordingly, but this might prove to fail, if i scrog, because i won't know where to put the screen because i cant predict how big the buds will get...
Soil, or Hydro?
While i consider myself an experienced soil grower, I have actually never gotten my feet wet, so to speak, in the wonderful world of hydroponics...I've always tried to be as organic as possible, and have always been under the impression that hydro-cultivated canni didnt taste or smell as good, and that it was less healthy for you than organic-soil grown bud. Now some people would go and say- Hey your putting a burning plant into your lungs, what do you care about your health? To that I would argue that Smoked cannabis has it's benefits and it's hazards, but the benefits outweigh the hazards, and is far healthier in comparison to other drugs and alcohol. That is a whole different issue i could go on about but the bottom line is- im health conscious.
But I'm completely open to the idea of Hydro, and have heard that while it does not affect the quality or potency of the bud, that growing hydroponically can produce higher yeilds, denser buds, and a quicker turn-around. I know a little about hydro, but would love to learn more!I would be willing to experiment with hydro once i have the PC case dialed in...maybe a small DWC setup or mini bubbler? Or maybe even a very mini hempy-style bucket? (i hope you're all familiar with hempy?
)My current plan is to use organic soil in about a 1gallon container, possibly smaller if i'm growing an Auto...
Nutrients?
So to be completely honest, I am an experienced soil grower, but I've always kind of been a feel-for-it kind of grower...In other words, I don't do soil tests, test my water, use calculated nutrient scheduled feedings....Even though i probably should do all of the above. I know when a plant is hungry and when its over-eaten, and usually i know what to feed it if it's hungry...But i'm really not all that advanced in the field of nutrients...So in the past I've kind of always just feed my plants 100% organics either randomly or when they look like they need it, knowing that i cant realllllly do any irreversible damage since i used strict organics. And quite frankly, I've been very succesful, probably just very lucky...but for this grow, and hopefully all future grows, indoor or out...I would like to fine tune my skills with nutes. I would like to move away from the guess and hope game that i've been playing with my plants for quite some time now, and move into more calculated and precised feedings.
I know that roots grow most during veg and that plants use more N in veg and more Phosphates in flowering...and that seedlings and vegging plants require little to no extra nutrients besides whats in the soil, and that you're supposed to flush with straight water for the last 7-14 days of harvest....But i was curious on how this applies to growing Autos? I would assume you would give the auto bloom nutes almost right away, on a 20/4 lighting schedule?? Any info on nutrients and micro plant requirements would be appreciated.
Budget:
While I am on somewhat of a budget, and everyone is tight on money these days....I'm the kind of person who likes to do things right from the start, rather than take the cheap route and wait for the consequences of taking the easy way out...I like DIY and of course I'm looking for something cheap....but only if cheap and effective can go hand in hand..remember I am looking for quality and I would rather throw some bucks into it now, than have it be an unsuccessful grow, or a cheap alternative. In short- money is not an issue, as I would just like to get the Best, most efficient PC grow case at any cost.
Thanks to all who took the time to read this thread from start to finish-it took me some time to write, and actually 3 attempts, as the previous 2 attempts(yesterday) were deleted due to technical difficulties on my part once, and I was logged out in the process of typing this the other time.
I would really appreciate all relevant information, and would like to see some claims backed up with sources...but even if you don't have a source and you simply have an opinion, I want to hear from you! I would like to get the ball rolling on this project and have the box up and running by 4/20 so time is of the essence!
And just once more- the main reason I am looking to do this grow is to keep up my favorite hobby, to sharpen my skills, and to prove a PC grow, Seed-to-Weed can be done.No negative nancys are needed! Thanks again, Ill be checking back often!
