2nd week of flowering - Deficiency? Pics...

[Juzam1]

Plant info:

Hydroponic - 20 gallon coolers, air stones
Strain - Unknown
19 days into flowering
General hydroponics Floranova Bloom - Although I flushed the res today and used a combination of food.

PH: 5.8 but drops to 5.4-5.5 overnight
PPM: 1400-1500

This is affecting the fan leaves all over the plant now. It seemed to begin witht eh lower fan leaves but has progressed to the top leaves as well. I feel they're a bit too young to be mid-late flowering and having nitrogen issues - Or are they? The yellowing starts on the outside and moves it's way "in" on the leaf. Most leaves didn't show spotting but its beginning to be more prevelant.

I added some "grow" veg food, high in nitrogen, to the tank this time but have a couple others that are about a week behind this one showing similar yellowing beginning.

Thoughts?

 

[bootlegskate]

check this link
http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688
its the sick plants guide, good pics that you can kinda focus in on what elements you are lacking. also if you could fill out the info sheet. are you using ebb and flow? are the plants in pots? any idea what the EC is?

 

[bootlegskate]

i wouldnt start adding more nutes just because it could be a lockout due to high amounts of salts, that would make the salts higher and just cause a bigger problem..... i think we need more info

 

[Juzam1]

Been through the sick guide ... only thing that seems to fit is nitrogen.

No, they're 20 gallon coolers - essentially bubble buckets.

No idea on the EC but I could measure it.

"
How long has this problem been going on? A week
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) No
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...) DWC
What STRAIN are you growing? Don't know
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? ~60+ days (Long veg, big plants)
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) 60 days
How tall are the plants? 48+", they're screen on top
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Flower
What Technique are you using?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) Hydroton
What is the Water temperature? ~65
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? Somewhere between white and light brown/tanish
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) GH Floranova
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* 20 gallons ... Not sure of exact quantity but ppm of 1400-1500
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless) I try to change the res 1x every 7-10 days, generally just top off and adjust PH as needed.
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless) Above ... Only if it changes but they stay consistant generally.
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? yes
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) Its a 1 part solution
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? Hanna tri meter
What is the pH of the "Tank"? ~5.8, dropping overnight to ~5.5
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? Once a month
When was your last watering? Just changed it today
What is your water temps? 65
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional) Swap from grow to bloom
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? 7-10 days
What size bulb are you using? 1000 watt hortolux HPS
What is the distance to the canopy? ~18-20" with a fan
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? 40-45
What is the canopy temperature? ~80, although its been cool lately
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) We've had a cold spell lately 59 low, 85 max
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 8" can fan w/ 3 room fans in a 10 x 10
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? Runs 24 hours a day except when c02 is on
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? On top of the canopy and a recirculating fan close to it
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Soft (?) ~120 ppm
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Tap
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched - Transplanted 19 weeks ago
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? Yes. Floramite, 4 and 7 days ago. Avid yesterday
Are plant's infected with pest's - Spider mites but they appear to be on their way out (hopefully, finally.)

 

[Slap]

Sounds to me like you need to check the EC and PPM and get an EXACT number, it looks like it's locking out to me too (nitrogen and possibly calcium?), I'd give it a good flush and lower your nutrient level way down, maybe around the 1000-1100 range and see if they need more from there.

 

[Juzam1]

The reason they aren't exact is because the bubble buckets are moving water constantly and it fluctuates when it's being measured.

EC was 2200 when I measured it tonight ... PPM was +- 1500. I've never measured EC before so I don't know if that's too high.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

nitrogen def. bump the feedings up a little.

 

[Weedhound]

Did I read correctly that you are using 1400ppm Bro Bloom and nothing else in your water? Is it tap water or RO?

edit: I see its Flora Nova....not familiar with particular type. You may still need some CalMag though. Several folks use Flora Nova here.....they should be able to help you.

good luck.

 

[VirginHarvester]

Are those black spots on the leaf edges not a symptom of mag or cal problems?

 

[Weedhound]

Its certainly possible but the real question is WHY are nutrients not in the plant. Are they not in nutes he is using? I don't use them so I can't really say.

They could also not be getting what they need because of lockout.....the condition where abnormal ph and/or too much/odd ratio of another mineral or nute can lock out another.The needed nutrient may be there in abundant amounts......but because of a problem the plant can't uptake the nutes. It's a pretty important distinction with two completely different solutions. So it's important he finds out which the problem is which is where he's at right now I think. Adding MORE nutes to a locked out plant can contribute to killing it right off from fertburn or other problems. If he;s truly deficient in calcium, then he needs CalMAg.

 

[Juzam1]

The spots aren't very prevelant on the plant, I probably should have taken a picture of another leaf. The yellowing is what concerns me.

If it's a lockout situation flushing and running a lower PPM is the solution I assume? What causes this - Just too high of ppm or is it the nutrient type?

I'm running a different type of nutrient in a plant directly next to it so I'm trying to see if the Floranova is really worth the additional cost ... so far I haven't had that great of impression but I'm trying to give it time.

 

[Weedhound]

Well there's a couple people here who swear by it.......but as far as how to feed with it you'd have to talk to them. I use the Botanicare line. Sorry I can't be more help. Make sure your ph meter is calibrated correctly, check ph in and out to make sure that's normal then run a search here on Flora Nova and see what you can come up with. Or you could try a new thread with the title "question for flora nova users." That would probably be your best bet imo.

good luck.

 

[Weedhound]

Your ph dropping at night is also saying something. Do your rooms temps get much colder at night? Are your plants rootbound? One of the main reasons for lower ph is roots dying off; making your nute solution more acidic. can you get a pic of the roots?

 

[Juzam1]

Roots appear fine... but are dyed brown from the floranova (which is common.) I could get a pic of them but all of the plants go through the same cycle, ph drops at night after the first couple weeks of flowering.

The lowest the room gets is 59* but the water hasn't gotten below 63* that I've ever tested it.

Not rootbound... plenty of room in the 20 gallon coolers.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Slap]

A friend of mine recently had a similar problem and like I said in a previous post, I truly believe your problem to be a lockout issue.

Weedhound makes a good point about your roots though now that I think about it and with daytime temps of up to 85F I have to ask, do you have a water chiller? How aerated are your buckets? You may have a potential over watering problem if you're not supplying enough air to the root zone or even worse the beginning stages of root rot due to the high daytime temperatures if you don't have a chiller.

A picture of your roots would definitely be helpful also a couple of full plant pictures if at all possible.

 

[Weedhound]

I agree Slap. If your ph is dropping like that something's going on with the roots. Sure you can ignore it but I bet it affects your final yield and also be willing to bet most of the problem is your cold water temps (ideal in hydro is approximately 70F) so I think your killing off new, growing roots with your cold temps and your plant is compensating by pulling stuff out of the lower leaves. That's exactly what happened to me when I let temps get below 65 (both water AND room....room temps I'll take 60.....water temps no lower than 65 EVER.) A different type of lockout.......but it's happening none the less

Then the next question would be are you using a product for root health? Good idea....especially with cold temps.

 

[Juzam1]

I ran and got a small heater just to see what it does... probably lower the ppm a touch as well.

I'll take some more pics when the lights come on.

 

[Weedhound]

Another cheap answer.....a nice aquarium heater will do your rez just fine. With warmer water temps you will see faster growth, and you should stop seeing defs in the lower leaves. Your ph should also remain more stable this way as well. One thing about higher temps....it can encourage root rot. Consider a zyme product to add to your res for root health.

good luck.

 

[Juzam1]

Zyme product such as ?

Problem is I have 8 resivoirs... not one.

 

[Weedhound]

8 reses!!! Not fooling around are you!!! Ok, go with your room heater; it should help if you have reses everywhere you turn.

Zyme product such as Cannazym, Sensizym, something along that line. The products have enzymes in them to prevent root rot.......which becomes more common as the temp of your res(s) goes up. Not necessary.....but a GOOd idea if you can swing it.


Good luck.