LED Lab 2009

[knna]

Where is this trial taking place? on ic mag?

and I would be very willing to buy a kits or even near whole sale price leds for an experiment.

Very nice thread to all contributors

Not, on a spanish forum. And journals arnt started yet (well, at least, those using known perfomance lamps: there are already some running with UFO and similar panels).

Im reluctant to offer kits without being tested. Im trying different type of LEDs and i want to determine first the efficacy of each and relative price/perfomance. I expect to offer them before summertime, but always conditioned to the results of starting trials.

Recently we added a Cannalyze kit to test cannabinoids profiles of experiments. I hope this tool increase strongly the knowledge from the trials.

BTW, we are looking for an expert stadistiscian to perform analysis using SPSS with results. We would like to do a similar analysis of what Cannastats tried some years ago, but dedicated to LED lighting and using meangliful figures (saddly, Cannastats used lm).

Any volunteer?

 

[urbanfunk]

Cant wait till led's are more effective!!!! wont be long know i guess!!

my grow : http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112012

 

[outdoe]

I've been checking the prices of LEDs on mouser.com

LEDs aren't cheap!

How many would you need to equal a 400watt hps/mh 600watt, and 1000watt grow light?

Based off a Grow I saw online I would have to say you would need 260 watts to = 400 watts hps. A site selling them says 90 watts = 400 hps. If anybody is willing to tell me how to post youtube videos I will post a side by side comparison.

 

[sonnyblanko]

as promised wholesale

as promised wholesale

as promised, here's the wholesale pricing:

http://www.123easygrow.com/icmag_deal.html

sb

 

[Solar Puffer]

looks cool, but it's hard to believe that array covers 9 sq. ft.

 

[Weezard]

Depends!

Depends!

looks cool, but it's hard to believe that array covers 9 sq. ft.

On whatcha mean by, "covers".

Aloha,
Weezard

 

[Weezard]

A question, if I may?

A question, if I may?

There are a lot of Hong Kong UFO knockoffs flooding the market for about $200. USD.
Some are "honest copies".
Some are outright, christmas light, not too bright, garbage.
So my question is, who, actually, will be honoring the 3 year warranty on your lights?

Aloha
Weezard

 

[motaloca]

Hi. I had always problems with mites and whiteflies here, outdoors and indoors. my plants are in 4th week of flowering now using leds, so far no creatures around.
has anybody experienced mites etc or so under red , blue leds? if not that would be the ultimate bonus.
soksabay
mota

 

[sonnyblanko]

There are a lot of Hong Kong UFO knockoffs flooding the market for about $200. USD.
Some are "honest copies".
Some are outright, christmas light, not too bright, garbage.
So my question is, who, actually, will be honoring the 3 year warranty on your lights?

Aloha
Weezard

Hey Weezard,

Good questions but as I stated earlier in this thread, I personally build these, due to the garbage that's out on the market. The only thing I don't build is the housing. The warranty should read 1 year, the lights I build with Cree leds are 3 year but they are expensive to build and not many people want to pay the premium. These units are using Bridgelux leds. At this price I make a few bucks to cover my time, this is for testing for those who are interested in the LED project. For those interested in building them on their own, I have the housing if needed ufo and rectangle style.

Keep testing.
Peace
SB

 

[indifferent]

Bridgelux, not heard of those. The only 660nm class 2 LEDs I've seen have been the expensive Norlux Array, the LEDengin ones and the Edixeon deep reds, do you have any info on these Bridgelux ones? Specs etc would be nice.

 

[N707]

Wow!! Interesting, so 100w of LED is 7000 lumens huh? thats nice!! I can't wait till it's in my price range cuz that is the way for micro growing holly shit!!!

5 Watt reds n blues work a treat.
But seedlings under 5W. white leds stretched and died.

Have you had any luck growing with the white leds alone?

Weeze

Thunder, I know, the lumen output is very very promising, and remember these are basically rough drafts of whats to come. I totally blanked on this thread...= P. The word in the reef scene (not the net, the real reef scene...lol) is that the 100 watters are being refined to pump out nearly 10 lumens/watt.


Weezrd, Ive never used the blues/reds as the spectrum they release is horridly narrow. A quality led pumping at a lower kelvin will be much more efficient at satiating the needs of the plant imo. Yeah the reds and blues are targeting, but there are plenty of aspects which I want from a light...reds and blue dont do it for me. I want something that is visibly pure and spectrally emcompasing, perhaps and array or 4k, 6500k, 10k, and 20k. This would give spectrums mirroring sunrise all the way to full moon light.

I have had excellent sucess growing corals under the 5w p4's and seoul cree's, the actuall brands not knocoffs. They are still up there in price but will be dropping son hopefully. Ive also had no issues sprouting seedlings under the 5 watters up to the 3rd internode. The key is utilising an led that emits a nice uv spectrum, which is attainable in the whiteish blue to the eye. The pics of my PV that im having nute issues with was grown to its current state under about 18 watts of light, is under 3" tall and @ the 4th internode going on 5......
Initially sprouted under
http://todd-robinson.amazonwebstore.com/UV-flashlight-bulb-TerraLUX-TLE-5/M/B000RFRR5Y.htm
and also some standard off brand white 3 watt leds. Im curious to see how she does uder my 250 watt HQI (20K) and the CMH Im getting soon. Ill be throwing them under those to harden off in the garage @ lower temps.

 

[indifferent]

Those 100W LEDs are never gonna be aby good for growing, they concentrate the dies into a small space, for growing plants you want them spread out to give even distribution rather than a single point source. 7000 lumens from 100W is pretty pathetic compared to other technology, the efficiency will need to double or triple before they are competitive, and the price will have to half.

Which commonly available LEDs emit a nice UV spectrum? Only ones I can think of are by CREE, Prolight and LEDengine and those aren't proper UV, they are near-UV.

 

[sleepyrz]

lol he said lumens

what a nub

as if they had anything to do with growing plants...........

 

[indifferent]

lol he said lumens

what a nub

as if they had anything to do with growing plants...........

That's a stupid offensive comment if ever I heard one!

Lumens are not a great measure of light output as it's weighted to take account of the human eye's sensitivity, the actual emitted photons is more useful a measure, this must then be weighted according to PAR.

 

[Weezard]

Aye, there's the nub!

Aye, there's the nub!

That's a stupid offensive comment if ever I heard one!

Lumens are not a great measure of light output as it's weighted to take account of the human eye's sensitivity, the actual emitted photons is more useful a measure, this must then be weighted according to PAR.

No worries Indifferent.
I'm not offended by sleepy's post.
In truth, I am a newbie.
When it comes to growing with led's we all are.

What I said was "relative lumens".
He prolly missed the relative part.
It wouldn't hurt me to write more clearly, ya?

Just want to know how those UFO knock-offs compare to my homebrewed light arrays in units that most of us have access to.
I'm thinking of buying a couple for my clones but can not afford to drop $400. on a couple POCs.

But mahalo for jumpin' in dere.

Weezard

 

[N707]

Those 100W LEDs are never gonna be aby good for growing, they concentrate the dies into a small space, for growing plants you want them spread out to give even distribution rather than a single point source. 7000 lumens from 100W is pretty pathetic compared to other technology, the efficiency will need to double or triple before they are competitive, and the price will have to half.

Which commonly available LEDs emit a nice UV spectrum? Only ones I can think of are by CREE, Prolight and LEDengine and those aren't proper UV, they are near-UV.

Absolutley untrue, Im sorry but you are mistaken. The format of the led itself Im sure will change one they target the horticulture market with specific high power leds.
7,000 lumens is awesome, espesially when you can have them made t emmit any spectrum. They dont yet but will. Look at solaris lights for reefs...on thie higher end models you can literally set thier spectal output in many ways. S obviously a manufacture will be able to put out leds @ a specific spectrum. When you do this it negates the need to take lumens as a benchmark.

You should read the thread before you post thse questions, not trying to be rude it just makes you come off wrng.
Click my link to find a pure uv lamp, 3 watt by a nice manufacture. There are tns of uv leds that emmit anything from some uv to ones that emit mostly uv and little visible light.

And btw ALL leds are commnly available, all. If you can find them at least once a month theats pretty damn common. I have several wholesale sources that can import any type of led, all the good one are of course coming out of Asia.

On the tip abut photsythetic available radiation (the acronym I perfer for equations sake) the 35 watt leds I saw and used were grwing acroporid corals rather nicley, which require a fairly high par. Im not in the position to dig up par comparisons but check out the par of a 250 watt HQI, as that is what alot of companies are shooting for right now. If they can grow some acro youll be damn sure they can pump out some dank in a pc case. Albiet that dank and crralamorphs like different wavelengths in some cases, the general idea is the same....emit more useable photons.
As for the dies being in to small a space, that is what reflectors are for. All of the proto reef lights Ive seen use nice reverse reflectr designs, or a nice mini reflector to each led that resembles some of reef opitcs work. Unfortunatley with things the way they are going with the economy the fixtures and diodes are waaay behind and many people have folded in their R&D. Believe it or not, Tam...the crappy aquarium brand is coming out with some decent led fixtures geared towards tanks pretty soon. I assume they will be the cheapest on the market and will work excellnt for micro or smaller grows. Im sure they wont oust any hids, but theyll be ncie in ways of efficiency and lifespan.

All in all I agree that the 100 watters are to focused a beam by design, but thats where those who like to build things come into play.

Oh, and yes they will certainly be plummeting in price as I also stated in previous posts. You cannot even get the 35 or 50 watt single diodes in stores yet, of course there throught the roof. The way in which they produce mediums has changed, thus will productive costs and eventually end csts t the consumer. Maybe not equall to the drop the makers are seing but it will be signifigant.

 

[knna]

Absolutley untrue, Im sorry but you are mistaken. The format of the led itself Im sure will change one they target the horticulture market with specific high power leds.
7,000 lumens is awesome, espesially when you can have them made t emmit any spectrum.

Absolutely untrue? And you didnt explain why?

Its being said before on this thread than the uneven lighting, the lower productivity of the light. And that the closer you place the LED's chips, exponentially more difficult to keep them cool enough. Both facts point out that concentrating too much light on small lamps is something to be avoided. Whats untrue about this?

How many light, meaning physical light (photons, oprtical watts) instead of human perception of it, depends of the spectrum that generates it. 1 optical watt of green light produce more than 600lm, 1 optical watt of deep red or blue, 60lm. 1 optical watt of white, from 275 to 400lm. You cant split a lm rating of the spectrum that generates it, as its absolutely unmeangliful for our purposes.

BTW, i bet that 100w LED dont emit more than 4000lm on operating conditions, and that, luckily. Dont believe all what manufacturers, specially those small ones, say on their literature, because very often is strongly exagerated.

You should read the thread before you post thse questions, not trying to be rude it just makes you come off wrng.
Click my link to find a pure uv lamp, 3 watt by a nice manufacture. There are tns of uv leds that emmit anything from some uv to ones that emit mostly uv and little visible light.

Not to be rude, but you should read what you are answering before doing it on such terms. Inefficient wrote: "Which commonly available LEDs emit a nice UV spectrum? Only ones I can think of are by CREE, Prolight and LEDengine and those aren't proper UV, they are near-UV.".

The LED you linked is that type of near UV LEDs on the market, with a peak wavelenght of 395nm. There are lots of them, but not emitting actual UV. There are only a few emitting about 365nm (UV-A) and a pair emiting UV-B.

On the tip abut photsythetic available radiation (the acronym I perfer for equations sake) the 35 watt leds I saw and used were grwing acroporid corals rather nicley, which require a fairly high par. Im not in the position to dig up par comparisons but check out the par of a 250 watt HQI, as that is what alot of companies are shooting for right now. If they can grow some acro youll be damn sure they can pump out some dank in a pc case. Albiet that dank and crralamorphs like different wavelengths in some cases, the general idea is the same....emit more useable photons.

Some things are very different when lighting an aquarium and a grow room. On a aquaria, you need to concentrate the light, so it may reach the bottom, due the high light's absortion by water. Aditionally, you must try to give the light as more perpendicular to the water layer in order to reduce light being reflected.

On a grow room, its exactly the opposite. Of course you can use high power small LED lamps, but its at the cost of reduced perfomance and life. While you dont get any advantage by doing it on a grow room. On aquariums, at least you get more light actually reaching the bottom of the tank.

 

[N707]

Absolutely untrue? And you didnt explain why?

Its being said before on this thread than the uneven lighting, the lower productivity of the light. And that the closer you place the LED's chips, exponentially more difficult to keep them cool enough. Both facts point out that concentrating too much light on small lamps is something to be avoided. Whats untrue about this?

How many light, meaning physical light (photons, oprtical watts) instead of human perception of it, depends of the spectrum that generates it. 1 optical watt of green light produce more than 600lm, 1 optical watt of deep red or blue, 60lm. 1 optical watt of white, from 275 to 400lm. You cant split a lm rating of the spectrum that generates it, as its absolutely unmeangliful for our purposes.

BTW, i bet that 100w LED dont emit more than 4000lm on operating conditions, and that, luckily. Dont believe all what manufacturers, specially those small ones, say on their literature, because very often is strongly exagerated.




Not to be rude, but you should read what you are answering before doing it on such terms. Inefficient wrote: "Which commonly available LEDs emit a nice UV spectrum? Only ones I can think of are by CREE, Prolight and LEDengine and those aren't proper UV, they are near-UV.".

The LED you linked is that type of near UV LEDs on the market, with a peak wavelenght of 395nm. There are lots of them, but not emitting actual UV. There are only a few emitting about 365nm (UV-A) and a pair emiting UV-B.




Some things are very different when lighting an aquarium and a grow room. On a aquaria, you need to concentrate the light, so it may reach the bottom, due the high light's absortion by water. Aditionally, you must try to give the light as more perpendicular to the water layer in order to reduce light being reflected.

On a grow room, its exactly the opposite. Of course you can use high power small LED lamps, but its at the cost of reduced perfomance and life. While you dont get any advantage by doing it on a grow room. On aquariums, at least you get more light actually reaching the bottom of the tank.

Did you just say at the cost of life? Um.......ya.
Look.... lets not go back and fourth contaminating the thread with useless views that really are nothing more than opinion mixed with random fact.
Im not going to g nto ebay and search around (im sure you did a bit) but if you look thhere are a ton of actuall uv leds. I pay little attention t thier claims of nm, they are often pretty inaccurate. The nice uv lights emit very little visible light.

Your synopsis are all lacking in the things im trying to get across,its just coming off as countering me due to my disagreeing...thats wha forums are for now I guess...?
The way light enters an aquaiurm does not hinge on its design, but rather the intensity f the photons an wavelength. If you took a 400 watt HIQ and put that in a grow with say 5 plants, the results wuld be pleaseing to say the least. The spectral output and longevity is my interest in leds, not power. Power will come with refinment and mainstreaming (not t say that leds will ever be so).
My led grws have all been up to about the 5th internode, going sixth then they go under hids to harden up for the outdoors. I want to get to the point where I can germinate then toss em out if the temps are mild. To do this Ive been using uv leds, REEF LIGHTING of lower wattages, and some reptile uvb/uva lamps, basically dumping all the uv I can without causing mutatin or burning.
This is from a seedling a couple weeks ago during transplant,

This one is now getting just under 30 watts (was 18), but was thrown under a nice uv laden spectrum plus a bit of daylight (5500-6500K) from the get. THe heat I felt off of the 35s was less than my 23 watt cfl after afew hours.
I would like t see a seeding with that internodal structure with other lamps watt for watt. I doubt thats ging to happen.
Hence my original statement of uv being important, and you debate uv with me. I understand why but I think we are on different pages here bro.
Im looking at LEDs and UV as a way to try new things out. If you coul get afew of the 50 watt led n a small scrog, with some UV supplementation, it would rock for sure. Again, might not be the best thing in the world, but they will last a VERY long time, produce low enough heat to be inches froom anything almost, and a nearly indestrucible compared to any other type of lighting.
All Im highlighting is the wide array of spectrums that leds can encompass and thier potential to be even better.

Bottom line, leds are easy to get, easy to wire, very very little heat even with high watts, and can sit in any spectrum in nearly pure form. Are they for grow rooms? No, not yet, maybe in the future. For thse who use smaller micro grows or closets. they can be a viable alternitive to help if you know what your doing. And the little uv leds can supplement a large grow if aranged properly, as in prooviding some nice spectrums that arent present in hps w/out the hassel of using a large halide.
One thing is for sure, a bank of 3 of thse 100's, some nice uv ranges, and a small grw would be awesome. You could use the same lights for years in full cycle.

 

[billyjojimbob11]

I know that we study and study until we have temporarily satisfied our never ending drive to the perfect LED light, and as a I have, a passenger on this great voyage myself, but even as I illuminate my best and brightest blue and red Led's, hoping to shine the magical spectrum onto a sex starved femal cannabis plant, I cannot stop asking myself...
Has anyone honestly put together and fully tested a yellow and amber array maybe with some 660nm? I know that I havent, but the idea will not go away in theory. See, I question if we are maybe waaaaay off, due to most light sprectral charts showing plant response of mostly 430,455,635,660,730nm, is it possible that we are a few nm redder than we need to be for cannabis? Should we really be at 580-610 with some 660 maybe some 730? We have surely put a lost of stock in 635 and 660 with less than explosive results haven't we? I know Knna has the crown on knowledge of spectrums and their respect to plant response, but I cannot cross out the hypothesis and feeling that cannabis does in fact like yellow red, and maybe some WW thrown in. Anyone know of a trial of the ambers and yellow dominate with reds thrown in? I think maybe I will try some of the Cree, maybe some top bins of amber with reds and whites. BTW, here is a site with info on different responses and proof that these responses to light vary from plant to plant, even so with plants that are closely related.

Also, Is it possible as well that we have strained our cannabis to only enjoy the yellow spectrums of salt? of the hps? O YOU CAN BET, I WILL FIND THE ANSWER!

BJJB

 

[Aerohead]

Good question, I would like to see how adding some orange/red would perform