Cheap man's Aero?!

[turbolaser4528]

hey guys was wondering about doing a hybrid dwc/aero design. It goes like this...


Say you take a 30 gal rubber maid, fill it with like 10-15 gallons of water bubbled by airstones, and then take a 500 gph powerhead and connect this to a hose or pvc. This pump takes the water from the bottom of the rez up into the air where the hose would be suspended, then you drill very small holes in the hose or pvc (i was thinking 1/16" or 1/8") which point ot the walls or lid of the rez. Then put a cap on the hose so that pressure builds in the hose and blasts the nutrient and oxygen enriched water through the holes and slams it against the resevoir creating a fine mist in the resevoir.

I thought this would be a very cheap alternative, and also be more reliable than spending 200 dollars on a pump with misters that can clog.

If anyone has done this please direct me to a link i've been searching all day.

Seems like it would work and make a fine mist right? let me know thanks

 

[Endo]

it sounds great well and good but why not spend 5 bucks on a few spray heads?

you've got the general idea down. and sprinkler heads are cheap. i think that spray hitting the sides of your rubbermaid is going to make a hell of a noise.

 

[turbolaser4528]

it sounds great well and good but why not spend 5 bucks on a few spray heads?

you've got the general idea down. and sprinkler heads are cheap. i think that spray hitting the sides of your rubbermaid is going to make a hell of a noise.

I have 4 of the little 360 degree low pressure sprayers, but i've read that this will basically just create a Nutrient Film Technique environment because the droplets aren't small enough, and while running down the roots they damage the small absorption volcano things. I wanted to give this a try to get the small droplet size without spending all the extra money to go to true aero.

I thought about the noise factor, and i bought insulation made to keep noise and heat insulated in cars are shit. Its basically foil with a 1/4 inch of air bubbles in between each side. (didnt want to use fiberglass)

So i think I could control the sound, especially if I bought a big cooler to do this in (which would also keep rez temps down).


Anyway, would the mist created by the water hitting the walls be small enough to be worth my time? I figured that if its at a high enough pressure the resevoir should become an aero like environment because of the blasted water flying all over the place. Is a 500 gph pump and few really small holes good enough?


I just want some opinions before i go tear shit up because im on a limited budget. thanks guys

 

[Endo]

i still think its going to be loud, but you have a great theory, and i guess if you had high enough pressure it would work. my concern would also be the velocity of the water, and if its not a mist in some spots, your going to get a rough root inviroment, if that makes any sence at all. think of being sprayed with a hose and how a small stream of water would tear roots up.

you just said you bought insulation.... how much did that cost you? more than the good aero sprayers would be i would think. i dunno. just sayin.... and you dont want the res to keep too much heat, cause that will cause other problems. 500 gph pump is going to warm the water quiet a bit. and summer is coming up. i dont know where you are, but its gonna get warm.

 

[turbolaser4528]

i still think its going to be loud, but you have a great theory, and i guess if you had high enough pressure it would work. my concern would also be the velocity of the water, and if its not a mist in some spots, your going to get a rough root inviroment, if that makes any sence at all. think of being sprayed with a hose and how a small stream of water would tear roots up.

you just said you bought insulation.... how much did that cost you? more than the good aero sprayers would be i would think. i dunno. just sayin.... and you dont want the res to keep too much heat, cause that will cause other problems. 500 gph pump is going to warm the water quiet a bit. and summer is coming up. i dont know where you are, but its gonna get warm.

you make some great points let me clarify.

The streams of water will be in between the net pots and will not directly hit the roots, the roots will only be hit by the water bouncing back which i am hoping will be a fine mist and not damage them.

I was wondering why my rez was so warm, a 35w pump in there certainly doesnt help the cause haha

Also, the insulation costed about 30 dollars, but i see your way of thinking. Mine as well just go true aero right? I would but how loud is on of those pumps? and I wanted to do this for now since i.m low on money.


Im also thinking of doing a diy rez chiller with a mini fridge, but only when i get some more cash.




SO, cost of true aero (plus pros and cons) vs. using my proposed system?


or maybe a true aero setup with dwc at the bottom for added safety and water absorption.

 

[Endo]

ill let someone else thats aero mastered, chime in. just seems your "simple" idea... is not so simple, after all. hope it works out for ya.

 

[turbolaser4528]

very true, thanks a lot for your insight man i appreciate it. made me rethink my whole approach.

in the meantime im going to do a lot of digging for TAG info :friends:


fuckin great sig by the way, so true..

 

[Grinchy]

A 500GPH pump on 4 sprayers is too much. I have maybe 20 180 degree and 10 360 degree sprayers in my aerocloner on a 350GPH pump. If I crack the lid it sprays me in the face. I actually veg plants in my cloner sometimes, it works nicely and I'm sure you could get them threw flower in the same container. I use the foam rings to hold plants. I also made a humdity dome out of another of the same container for cloning. These containers are great for your purpose - so much stronger than rubbermaids, with a snap down lid. I did weather seal my lid though with weather this weather stripping. When my lights go on I can take a picture if you like.

I know they have the containers at home depot, cant find them on the website, they are large and black with a snapping lid. I'll get the name when my lights go on with the pictures.

 

[Grinchy]

I'd buy misters, I misunderstood at first. They are cheap, like $.50 a piece. I would use hard pipe not tubing, it moves and the sprayers are hard to direct precisely. Also, make sure not to buy the sprayers with heads that pop off - very annoying. You could take a plant/plants to finish in this, althouh I think large plants would make reservoir access difficult and because of the small size, the res will be finnicky with PH as the plants use water.

 

[purpledomgoddes]

several cheap aero methods...

small water pump in 5 gal backet. hose attached to pump. holes punched in hose, directed towards pot/32 oz. plastic cup w/ holes punched/drilled.

small pump in bucket/tub w/ hose. punch holes in hose. direct holes onto wall(s) of container, so water splashes all over inside of bucket.

thrift store humidifier (sinus decongestant type), attached to hose, to bucket/tub.

aero is fundamentally 100% humidity, or 24 torr of vapor pressure. as long as vapor is trapped inside of container, sprayers/misters/high vol. pumps are not necessary. maybe more efficient/precisely controllable, but plant does not care if pump is magnetic or sump, nor whether misters are 360* or fog. plant just wants water for roots.

not stating 50+ psi, 360 misters, etc. are not effective, just that other low-tech means are effective as well.

 

[Zizu]

Hello Turbolaser!

Some good ideas you got there. Basically a tub with a lot of sprayers and bubbles in the water is often called an "Aerospring" it was described in a how-to hydroponics book a while ago. I've built a number of them over the years to grow tomatoes. They work great but are basically a NFT spray system until the roots hit the water where it becomes a DWC.

I understand your desire to make holes in the tube instead of using sprayers in hopes of getting a finer spray, I tried this in one of my first(or fifth) builds and what ends up happening is you get less spray than using sprayers. My theory is most of the energy get lost in lateral waste(fluid along the surface instead of splashing off) I think in theory it could work but you would need a very high pressure pump and at that point you might as well use a high pressure Micron rates misters and a high pressure pump. The basic idea is good, some commercial high pressure sprayers focus a small stream on deflected surfaces to create spray drops. You can get smaller versions of these for your application they are the little green sprayers and will probably work better than holes in my experience.

But then again the best way to find something out is to try it!!

I wouldn't worry about the sprayers knocking off the "small absorption volcano thingies" sprayers work pretty good and if you set up the DWC part well you can get a pretty good system. I currently run a high pressure aero system and its lots of fun! More expensive to set up and a little touchy but a fun way to distract yourself. If you have any aero specific questions feel free to fire them off and I'll try to answer what I can, I love building systems!

 

[purpledomgoddes]

the original 'aeroponic' system was the ein geddi, or wet sump, aeroponics.

in isreal they simply used a large concrete tank, filled half-way w/ water/nutrients. a manifold sprayed the roots @ timed intervals. the system was designed to accomodate roots being submerged into the tank's nutrient solution as they grow down into the tank. the point was to conserve water, allow for constant water availability (the half-filled tank), and permit oxygen to penetrate the root mass (the suspended root mass between pot/container and water in tank).

uses less water than soil-based systems (as that region of the world attempts to preserve fresh water more due to terrain, etc.).

this system would probably be termed dwc on the various boards of the net.

w/ the many products to technically enhance the original method now readily available, new standards have been set: particular spray/mister nozzles, certain pump psi, certain oxygenation requirements, etc.

they built the first ein geddi 'aero' set-ups to feed the country using less water, less moving parts, and so that it would be fail-safe (the half-filled tank, pseudo swc/dwc).

pin-pricked hoses will replicate sprayers/misters, if that is the goal. one can concentrate on building/modifying systems ad infinitum, the roots of the plant(s) will adapt, re-form, mutate, etc. to adjust to soil, soilless mix, nft, flood/drain, etc.

can contruct each of the above systems, and run them all in tiny room, all using surplus materials - to see what works for that gardener/that environmental situation.

most of the initial innovations in progressive agriculture were motivated by need to grow more+use less materials+use less water+build a system that required less skill/more ease to operate. countries/universities want to develop ag systems that feed more, using less overall man-hours to operate+are fail-safe.

the commercial elements expand on that for profit. they go high-tech to attract those that are inclined to high-tech - even though the initial design was for, essentially, low-tech feeding of the populace.

can run soil, soil-less mix, dwc, swc, nft, aero, etc. in 2l soda bottles to experiment.

the plant-roots are hard-wired for survival whether the droplets are 5 micron from a 1250 gph magnetic pump, or they receive their water+nutrients from a hand watered session.

the garden will take on the characteristics of the gardener. the ultimate goal is fresh vegetables though, however they were grown. can't eat the system w/ the vegetables though. vegetables are priority 1. environment priority 2. then maybe system @ priority 3.

run them all, w/ gardener-specific tweaks. invent the new system/standard! good luck+enjoy whatever you do!

 

[turbolaser4528]

thanks guys for all your input, i like that setup with all the sprayers and would to see it in action!! Any videos or pictures of your systems working would be sick, I was thinking of using the 4 sprayers and then also drilling small hole pointed at the sides, the lid, and back into the resevoir, all the while I have a silent x5 pump bubbling water below. I figured this would create a massive rainfall, misting, oygenated environment.

I read all about the ein geidi method or whatever and yes that's what im trying to do. Im on a tight budget also, hence the name of the thread and would like to use what i allready have (500gph pump, 4 360 degree sprayers, vinyl tubing, 31 gallon rubbermaid i got from lowes which is sturdy enough to hold water half full)

I guess I will just have to experiment and figure out what works for me, but again Id like to see your setups in action spraying water and mist and fog or whatever else you got going on.

O by the way i also have a fogger if i could incorporate that I will as well, or just use it for cloning. peace and love

 

[turbolaser4528]

Also my concern with TRUE AERO is the pumps are expensive and use a crapload of electricity. I did see a pump that put out like 40/65 psi and only used 100watts. If you can find me that pump or one like that for around 100 bucks i will grow with a TRUE AERO/dwc hybrid that i think offers reliability, safety as well as awesome absorption, oygenation, and growth rates. I'd like to see one of these systems in action that doesn't need a 1000w pump. Stealth also comes into play as well, l8r for now....

 

[Grinchy]

As long as the roots stay wet and the water is oxygenated and not stagnant you should be fine. I don't use an airpump and have never had root rot in my cloner, and I leave clones in for around a month to develope tons of roots. However I do use sensizym and h202 and I think that combo stops pythium or root rot.

 

[turbolaser4528]

give me responses damn you icmag!!!!!! Im trying to start a weed revoltuion fuck can i get some help or what?!

drinking capn n coke tryin to chill with some ladies, im a breakdancer, and ballroom dance instructor what women could resist? just put me in the same vicinity as some girls and i will strike any one you pick guaranteed, fuck the world!!!!!!!!

 

[libby]

Another good post by..purple

 

[purpledomgoddes]

cheap aero:

cheap aero:

thx libby.

start seeds/cuttings in/on styrofoam sheet (take-out dinner plate, cup, etc.), on top of bubbler (faster). or in cup of water (slower). ~0-1 coin.

@ desired maturity, place base of stem into dollar store garden knee pad/camping map type 'neoprene collar' substitute. ~3-15 coins.

use 32 oz. fast-food type soda cup for 'net pot'. punch holes into w/ nail, or drill, or utility knife-out, etc. ~0 coins.

3, 4, 5 gallon bucket from restaurant/bakery/ice cream shop as big container/res, etc. ~0 coins.

lava rock as substrate/media anchor. ~5 coins.

smallest water pump @ any general store. ~10-20 coins.

~3' of vinyl/poly hose to fit onto pump. bend+zip-tie for makeshift 'end-cap'. ~1-2 coins.

pin-prick holes (4-8-...) into hose w/ needle/edge of razor blade after affixing hose in manner desired in bucket. either sprayed onto cup/sprayed onto interior walls of bucket to create splash effect, angled sprays, etc. ~0 coins.

has been done before.

easily replicated from between ~19-43 coins, cheap man's aero is possible.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden+vegetables!

 

[turbolaser4528]

word i was thinking of using the whole aerospring concept and either buy more of the spray heads or make some deflectors and drill holes in the hose. I guess ill just have to do some experimenting...


by the way fight club is a fuckin great movie, i love the taoist philosophy behind it so true