Help me eliminate some nutes from my lineup

[Dire Squire]

I'm using way too many and its costing me way too much.

AN 3-part (Micro, Grow, Bloom)
B-52
CalMag+ (using RO water)
Fulvic
Humic
Liquid Karma
Hygrozyme
Hydroguard
CarboLoad/SWEET
BigBud
Overdrive (last few weeks)
Final Phase


I was thinking the Liquid Karma could replace the humic/fulvic/B-52. But i've been reading that SWEET has a lot of the same ingredients as LQ so now im a bit confused. HELP?

Thanks

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I'm using way too many and its costing me way too much.

AN 3-part (Micro, Grow, Bloom)
B-52
CalMag+ (using RO water)
Fulvic
Humic
Liquid Karma
Hygrozyme
Hydroguard
CarboLoad/SWEET
BigBud
Overdrive (last few weeks)
Final Phase


I was thinking the Liquid Karma could replace the humic/fulvic/B-52. But i've been reading that SWEET has a lot of the same ingredients as LQ so now im a bit confused. HELP?

Thanks

Wow.

Why not try something simple that has a professional mix of additives already included?

General Hydroponics FloraNova nutrients.

Veg growth you feed 5-7 ml/gal of the 'Grow' formula. It's a one part.
Bloom growth feed 8ml/gal of 'Bloom'. (Lucas Formula) Mix it exactly and follow the rest of the Lucas Formula for maintaining the res.

Best results are obtained with RO water as they have plenty of Cal/Mag in it.


That's the best 'Simple Formula' to start with. If you figure they need anything else after the first grow, go ahead and start adding what you figure will improve. I know you're going to be impressed with the results though.

Good luck.

p.s. Just thinking about dealing with all those nutes you listed gives me a headache. Waaaaaaay too many variables if anything goes out of line.

 

[Dire Squire]

Wow.

Why not try something simple that has a professional mix of additives already included?

General Hydroponics FloraNova nutrients.

Veg growth you feed 5-7 ml/gal of the 'Grow' formula. It's a one part.
Bloom growth feed 8ml/gal of 'Bloom'. (Lucas Formula) Mix it exactly and follow the rest of the Lucas Formula for maintaining the res.

Best results are obtained with RO water as they have plenty of Cal/Mag in it.


That's the best 'Simple Formula' to start with. If you figure they need anything else after the first grow, go ahead and start adding what you figure will improve. I know you're going to be impressed with the results though.

Good luck.

p.s. Just thinking about dealing with all those nutes you listed gives me a headache. Waaaaaaay too many variables if anything goes out of line.

You'd be surprised. I was using even more, such as mother earth tea. but then I realized it was the same god damn thing as my three parter so i axed it.

I use pirhana/Tarantula along with Bud Blood the first week as well. forgot to mention that.

As for switching over I would LOVE to. But I have 5 gallons of each of the AN 3-part that needs to be used up first.

Was mainly hoping for some help with regards to all the additives.

 

[00420]

AN 3-part (Micro, Grow, Bloom). - cut out grow n use 8/16ml micro/bloom per gal
B-52 - cut out
CalMag+ (using RO water) use Epsom salt & 25-50% tap water {cheaper n work just as good}
Fulvic - cut out
Humic - cut out
Liquid Karma - switch 3 part to floweanova bloom & cut out
Hygrozyme - cut out
Hydroguard - cut out
CarboLoad/SWEET - cut out
BigBud
Overdrive (last few weeks)
Final Phase - only use 3 days of flush as to 7-10

I'd add in bud blood

 

[Maj.PotHead]

i grow in fox farm ocean forrest soil and use

pure blend pro grow
pure blend pro bloom
diamond necture
powdered kool bloom as a bloom burst 4-5 wk of flowering

pic above is of Decapation - pre98 bubba fm x whitemustang m {pre98 bubba pheno}
thats just some of the 15 plants i harvested in 1 gal bags under 2 - 400w lights

i used to think 20 diff ferts where required but it really isnt if i added anything back to my grow it would be liquid karma. i use tap water that sits uncovered min 12 hrs before use so cloriene evaporates, my tap water has plenty of calmag in it. hence no calmag+ in my ferts also if ya read the LK bottle it also contains calmag and few other things

 

[kokua]

AN 3-part (Micro, Grow, Bloom)
B-52
CalMag+ (using RO water)
Fulvic
Humic
Liquid Karma
Hygrozyme
Hydroguard
CarboLoad/SWEET
BigBud
Overdrive (last few weeks)
Final Phase

I'll take your question a different route...
What products are you purchasing and dosing separately that you could simplify without cutting ingredients. I don't see much redundency in your mix of juice so I will try to help refine.

0o420 is right on with droping the grow out of the G-M-B. use a simple 1-2 ratio of M-B. That takes care of base nutrition.

I wouldn't suggest relying on the calcium in your water to supply soluable sources of Ca for your nutrient solution. I would stick with the CaMg+ or other CaMg suppliment. M-B has sufficient levels of CaMg for most plants, but some plants are whores. It's not a bad investment to have a bottle if needed.

B52, Humic, Fulvic, and LK can all be refined to one product. You can replace all of them with Thrive Alive green. It has B vitamins, humics, fulvics, and seaweeds.

Hygrozyme is a good addative...there are alternatives, but nothing better. I would leave that one.

Carboload/Sweet are two of my least favorite of carb products. If you like AN, I like the Sweet Leaf better, It is a more complete addative. Flora Nectar and Sugar Daddy are preferred over sweet. Sweet adds citrus and berry flavors, those flavors can change the taste of the crop...Flora Nectar, Sugar Daddy, and Sweet Leaf don't have the flavor changers. Think of it this way...all of those products are going to enhance the natural flavors, one is going to change the flavor. If you are growing a bland crop and you want to jazz it up, use sweet. If you like the genetics you've got and want to bring out the best with out changing it...use something other than sweet.

Hydroguard, eh. Not sure I would pay the money for it. That one is going to help the rootzone stay healthier...so it can't be bad, just might not be necessary.

Big Bud is just a fancy PK boost. The only thing that makes it 'fancy' is that in addition to the PK boost it also contains amino acids. But, you are already getting the amino acids from the Sweet Leaf (No aminos in the carbo load), Sweet, Flora Nectar, Sugar Daddy. So no need to double up on the amino's. Truly, if you think you need more PK just up the ratio of B-M in your base. More bloom nutrient means more PK. No need to buy another product.

Overdrive just seems like the AN marketing machine at it's best. The ingredients don't jump off of the page at me...Not sure what difference if any you would see if you left that one out completely. Basically Overdrive sounds like a plant tonic marketed towards bloom, more than likely you are already giving your plants all the vitamins, hormones, etc. with the TAG and the carb product.

Final Phase is just a clearing agent. I don't ever use flushing agents and I am able to get the buds nice and flushed and clean burning, even when using alot of mineral nutes. Flushing is more about timing than it is about flushing products. Use if you want. If you think you need it...there are cheaper alternatives. Final Flush, Clearex, Flora Kleen, etc...

Basically you can refine 14 bottle to 6 and not loose any ingredients:

M-B
CaMg+ or equivalent
TAG
Hygrozyme
Sweet Leaf or equivalent

 

[kokua]

Wow.

Why not try something simple that has a professional mix of additives already included?

General Hydroponics FloraNova nutrients.

Veg growth you feed 5-7 ml/gal of the 'Grow' formula. It's a one part.
Bloom growth feed 8ml/gal of 'Bloom'. (Lucas Formula) Mix it exactly and follow the rest of the Lucas Formula for maintaining the res.

Best results are obtained with RO water as they have plenty of Cal/Mag in it.


That's the best 'Simple Formula' to start with. If you figure they need anything else after the first grow, go ahead and start adding what you figure will improve. I know you're going to be impressed with the results though.

Good luck.

p.s. Just thinking about dealing with all those nutes you listed gives me a headache. Waaaaaaay too many variables if anything goes out of line.

I have a few thoughts on Flora Nova...

The first thing is about the Lucas formula. First off, their is no such thing as "The" dosing rate for any nutrient. Things don't work that way. 8ml per gallon is medium-medium low strength, so it will work in lots of situations, however...Let's say grower 1 is using run to waste hydro, under high light, high co2, perfect temperature and humidity, dialed in genetics, etc...#1's plants are going to require more than 8ml per gallon. On the other side of the fence we have grower 2 who has low light levels, in a closed closet, with high temps, and no air circulation, etc...#2's plants are going to require less than 8mil per gallon. Chances are grower 1 is likely going to need to feed his girls 2x as much as grower 2. Moral...the lucas is misleading.

The other thought is...one parts are ok, but not the best. There are certain salt ions that don't like to stay in solution when together in concentrated form. Ca, Mg, Fe, K, all nutrient ions,...like to precipitate. That's why Mfr's separate base nutes. You can help try to keep the ions in solution by reducing certain elements concentrations like Ca and Fe(ionic one part), but then the mix isn't ideal. You can also use a lot of really really strong chelating agents(Flora Nova). The problem with too many strong chelating agents is that the bond might be two powerful between the nutrient salt ions and the chelators that the plant wont be able to take it in. Either way, generally speaking, you are going to see much higher amounts of precipitate (salt buildup) with a one part compared to using a 2 or 3 part.

When it comes to solubility in a res and low precipitate, one parts are good, two parts are better, three parts are best. Having said that, I've used Flora Nova and it worked good, not great, but really good.

Just some food for thought.

 

[SouthernSmoker]

I have a question?

I have a question?

ok My question to all is how manytimes have you just run a nutrient line from start to finish with no additives ?

I mean dont get me wrong I am as guilty as the next guy to try something new that hits the market . Are we really seeing anything from it compared to the nutrient line by it self ?

When you add something from oneline to another from another line does it work as well with that line ?Are we seeing results from the new additive or was it because we tweeked our mix alittle or the temps and humidity were perfect or was it a new strain . Way too many factors too add up in this way too many additives being used get the basics down first then aditives later .

 

[00420]

ok My question to all is how manytimes have you just run a nutrient line from start to finish with no additives ?

Answer: many

with that said, i dont use alot of additive's & in fact very few. the main reason i do is simple to boost & or take away npk ratio to feed the plant what it need's the lucas is NOT misleading it is a baseline starting point.
some plant's want 100-100-200 others want a 50-150-175 & so on.... this is where u "dial" your strain in

6ml floranova bloom + .6 grams big bud per gallon give's u 100-100-200 npk but at the same time lower's other ratio's like ca & mg witch is what i have to do using tap or i get a lockout of the ca & mg if i use 100% r/o i get a def of ca & mg and have to use calmg+ to take out the calmg+ i use a 50/50 mix of ro/tap and lower ca & mg by lowering my base nute {floranovabloom} but in doing so pk go's down to levels that the plants dislike hent's adding in big bud if n was lowered too far and needed a boost but not the pk i would use somthing like GH micro 5-1-1 and cut out the big bud making somthing like a 125-75-175

i believe some additives are no good unless your at a peak with everything else kinda like co2 it's only as good as your whole room and others can be replaced with cheap easy fix's ie Liquid Karma has Fulvic & Humic Y use all 3?

Hydroguard what is it? A:"help's increase the ability to fight off harmful bacteria or root rot" why do you want to "increase the ability" i dont want to it ..... i want to kill it, i use anti-bacterial dish soap it cost me $1 a quart and 1 drop per g will wipe out any nasty's

here's my new thread it's all about KISS or LAZYNESS http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111606

 

[dontstepongrass]

i grow using organic soil, but there is some good info here!

 

[slappyjack]

CNS17

CNS17

Two 1 gallon jugs, the only nutes I own. Works beautifully, cheap, no-nonsense, doesn't smell like rotten fish.

I'm a KISS grower, so maybe some CNS folks like to use additives in late flower, but I've never seen the need. It just works, even with plain old tap water.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

First off, their is no such thing as "The" dosing rate for any nutrient. Things don't work that way. 8ml per gallon is medium-medium low strength, so it will work in lots of situations,

8ml/gallon of RO water puts the FloraNova line in optimum solution for keeping everything properly balanced.
Can your plants take MORE? Yeah, some can but you'll lose out on the way the nutes have been balanced and would most likely need to change the additives.
If you want to play with additives and maximum feeding, don't use FloraNova.

Either way, generally speaking, you are going to see much higher amounts of precipitate (salt buildup) with a one part compared to using a 2 or 3 part.

This is total bull when talking about FloraNova. There isn't ANY precipitate.

When it comes to solubility in a res and low precipitate, one parts are good, two parts are better, three parts are best. Having said that, I've used Flora Nova and it worked good, not great, but really good.

Try shaking them completely first so there aren't ANY crystals on the bottom of the jug before you measure them. You'll see a VAST difference.
(I've put a link in my sig to help folks make the shaking part easy)

Just some food for thought.

If you're going to be giving advice to people who haven't grown before, try to keep things simple for them.
There are very few people who can formulate their own nute strategy that would get better results than FloraNova.

Just some food for thought

 

[B00st3d]

wow you have alot of needless stuff on that list. Where to start ....How you likin that AN basic line? I was using it and didnt think it was any better then GH flora series so I went back to GH since its cheaper and has pretty much the same profile. Since youre stuck with 5 gallon containers you might as well finish it off tho. All you really need is that , calmag and maybe floranectar. I used to use sweet but now I use floranectar which is made from several things including molasses. I use the liquid karma sometimes but havent noticed any difference when I use it, I think its a useless overpriced gimmick imo. Whats wrong with just the bloom, micro, calmag and floranectar? Why do you really need anything else ? Lots of guys just use lucas formula plus calmag and have great results. I usually get my best results when I keep it simple. Im curious bout floranova tho since its basically a one part lucas formula in the bottle, interestingly enough tho Res says he hates it and says its crap , not quite sure why tho. Seems like for ebb and flow that floranova series is the way to go. What are you growin in, coco, hydroton , rockwool or dirt ?