New Soil Plans...advice needed/welcome!!!

[dank.frank]

I have been planning a new setup for quite some time, but have not done so due lack of knowledge on what can be accomplished. Or perhaps how best to spend my finances to reach a particular goal.

First of all, I know many people frown on this, but my goal is quite simple. I want to yield a minimum of 8oz per cycle, in soil. I feel this is how much I would need to make it worth the time/effort/utility costs...and so I don't ever run out! With that being said...this is the plan:

I want to keep things small, and stay kinda low-key. However, I am an all-or-nothing type of personality, so what I am thinking may be a bit extreme...or may be just what I need so...

2 Flowering Cabinets. Both 2'x2' or 4 sq.ft for 100w per sq.ft.

Shared equipment:
1 Lumatek 400w on a flip-flop
1 4" Can-Fan attached to ventilation "Y". At each direction of the "Y" will be
2 Motorized Back draft dampers, Normally Closed variety. These will open when power is applied (in conjunction with the flip-flop of the lights, so one will close as the other one opens. This allows the fan to cool only the light which is currently on...make sense?)

Flowering Cab 1 equipment list:

Hydrofarm Radiant reflector, with glass and flanges, sealed. Attached to 4" fan.
400w MH
Rose buckets. Dimensions are 7.5"x7.5"x9.7"...allowing for 9 total plants.
6" HO Can-fan with a Can 50 filter
(2) 8"x8" Darkroom louvers for passive intakes

Flowering Cab 2 equipment list:

Hydrofarm Radiant reflector, with glass and flanges, sealed. Attached to 4" fan.
400 HPS
Rose buckets...room for 9 total.
6" HO Can-Fan with a Can 50 filter.
(2) 8"x8" Passive intakes
Co2 - tank - will be fully controlled and monitored via Sentinel CHHC-1


Now for the why. Keep in mind, the plants will start into flower cab 1 as 12-15" trained (keep reading) clones that have been vegged for a minimum of 3 weeks. By trained, I really only want to have say 4 branches and the main stalk on each plant, for basically 5 large buds per plant...mostly because of space restrictions/air flow. Picture LST'ed even canopy on all 9 plants.

I am thinking...perpetual, keep time between cycles as low as possible...DUH. So, begin 12/12 in Cab 1 under MH for 3 weeks. Using the MH should control stretch during the first few weeks and keep the plants more compact. Finish 12/12 in Cab 2 for 6 weeks. Cab 2 will have Co2. Since most of the serious bud development will be in Cab 2, I feel it is the only one to need the Co2. Also, it is my understanding that running such high wattage (100 per sq. ft.) is only beneficial if the plants can make use of it. THAT is the main reason for adding Co2...to let the plants take full advantage of the extra wattage and allow them to form seriously hard/dense buds.

Even bigger question. I am thinking in 1.7 gal of soil, I should be able to have a fairly large plant. However, I really only want to have say 4 branches and the main stalk on each plant, for basically 5 large buds per plant. So my confusion really starts here. I know this is strain dependent to a degree, but work with me in generalizations...lol. Figuring a clone is put in a starter plug(the squishy peat looking things) in a bubble cloner for 2 weeks...regardless of when it gets roots...2 weeks. It is then planted in a .6 gal pot and is given 3 weeks veg under a 250w MH, and should be trained accordingly and 12-15" tall at this point. Is then transplanted from a .6 gal square pot, to the 1.7gal rose bucket for the remainder of its life. Placed immediately into cab 1 for 3 weeks of MH flower, then into cab 2 for 6 weeks in HPS with Co2...then the chop.

Will the plants be root bound/limited in production potential or will it never have a chance to fill the container? Will I be able to achieve five 7g nugs from each plant...generically speaking of course...or will growing 9 plants like this in 2'x2' be an over crowded mess? Should I consider a single-cola concept? Is Co2 even necessary in this example to achieve said goals?

In theory I would have 9 plants with the goal of an oz per plant dried weight. Is this a practical concept / goal considering what information is given? (and please, don't flood with it depends on plant/grower ability/etc....I am being quite general about it, although think that an oz per plant, regardless what it is, should be realistic) I mean, the gram per watt ratio here is still relatively low. (and I know that the gpw ratio is scoffed by many, but it is a fairly effective way to measure production efficiency) So figure the over all goal of 8oz per cycle...8x28g= 224g. That is only .56 gpw....so what do you think all?

All comments welcome, please help educate me a bit more about soil growing.
I am steering away from hydro due to recent events...utility costs being a bit higher to operate and the noise of pumps, both water/air. Figure if I am going to reconfigure a set-up, might as well, start from scratch and do it the best possible way. I always like to at least ask before I really dive head first into something...

Thanks,
dank.Frank

 

[sparkjumper]

You want to keep things small??Except for the posts lol.I'm just kidding with ya man but you'll have more productive responses if you kinda go step by step.maybe ask a few questions at a time.Halfway through I totally forgot the plot.

 

[Dr Dog]

It is a tough read, but with so much work put into the post, I can't not attempt to help you out

Well an ounce a plant is not that bad of a goal, but I did not notice what size of cabs you have. Fitting 9 plants into a smaller cab and expecting weight can be tough, to get an ounce dried a plant, you want fairly large plants, especially since you want up to 5 tops per plant. That will require trimming, topping or some other training tech. I recommend topping them once, that should give you four tops, depending where you topped them.

C02 is great but not necessary, and will entail you seal your cabinet, and this goes back to size of your area, is it really needed? I do not use C02, and if I am growing multiple tops and going for weight I can easily grab 80 or higher grams dried per plant.

Best of luck with your grows!

 

[dank.frank]

HAHAHAA...okay, let's try this.

2 - 2'x2' cabinets with a 400w each. 1 for 12/12 under MH (3 weeks), 1 for 12/12 HPS (6 weeks). 1.7 gal rose buckets...9 in total. So 9 plants, LST'ed during a minimum of 3 week veg under a 250w MH. Transplant from a .6gal to the 1.7gal at beginning of flowering.

8 oz. possible per cycle? Containers to big/small? 100w per sq. ft. Does one need Co2 to benefit from such a high wattage?

Let's try that...lol.

 

[Dr Dog]

9 plants in, 2x2?

Do your pots even fit in there?

I am not sure LST will be viable in there, seems way too small.

 

[dank.frank]

well, I am looking at a square pot known as a Rose bucket. They are 7.5"x7.5"x9.7 deep. So that give a 3x3 footprint with the pots...for 9 total. I was thinking small bushes, LST'ed / trained early, during the 3 week veg, undergrowth trimmed away before flower, leaving only 4 branches and the main stem, of course. I know this would be a close fit, but it would be essentially a scrog, without the screen. They should all be pretty even in size and stature...no more than 12-15in veg...should finish around 24-36" by end of flower...strain depending of course. I know in a true Sog, they are planting up to 16 per sq. ft...4 plants per 6" pot...granted these are just freshly rooted clones, about 8" or so, but I don't want that many "plants" running at the same time. So I don't assume 9 in 2'x2' is too much, especially considering I am not really planning on growing trees, just small compact, trained mini-bushes.

Continue breaking it down with Dog...show me the light...hehehe.

dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=86554

Look at this to get an idea of what I am referring to when I say "training" / LST. Maybe I am using a bit of wrong terminology, perhaps. Keeping in mind, this plant was much bigger than I am planning on using for this project, it does however, proper represent the concept...I would just do the same thing, in a smaller, more compact plant....

 

[FreezerBoy]

Hey Frank, Got the PM. Not sure how much I can help here as our growing personalities seem so different. Soil indoors just doesn't interest me. I started with 24 plant perpetual (rockwool) and dropped it for a single bucket, single plant DWC.

I'm pulling near 8oz per grow in a cab 22x29 with a 250 so I think that part's doable (though my Sativa's take 16-20 weeks to do it)

LST causes a bushier wider plant. As i went from Sog to ScrOG, I went through an LST phase where plant count dropped from 24 to 4. I'm having a hard time seeing 9 plants spread out in that space but, time and strain will tell. Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster one of my first 2 Thunks was male, there was no way I had space for two and I'd have been weeks into the grow before I figured it out. First run, I'd do 4 and see where it goes. Throwing out plants sucks.

I flipped my SOG plants at 6-8 inches to minimize stretch. Partially because of limited space in the cab but also due to my then 150s lower penetration. How much height can you play with?

Is that a single 4" fan for two 400s? Try running your numbers through this fan-intake calculator Cant believe I'm about to say this but, your intake may be overkill. Still, better too much than too little as an extra intake is easily covered without tearing down the cab as an additional intake would require.

All I know about CO2 is Dr Pepper tastes lousy without it. (Anyone remember the drink DP hot ad campaign? What were they thinking?)

Break a leg

 

[Dr Dog]

Continue breaking it down with Dog...show me the light...hehehe.

dank.Frank

I understand what you are trying to say, I just dont see how they will all fit in

Get a picture of your proposed set up for me please

 

[dank.frank]

How much height can you play with?

Is that a single 4" fan for two 400s?

Well, from the way I figure it, the Can 50 will be at the top of the cab, and it is 12" in diameter. The Hydrofarm Radiant reflector is 9 1/2" high, so basically another 12". From the bottom, the rose buckets are 9 1/2" tall, and will be sitting in a 2x2 plastic flood table, so basically 12" there. So I figure, if I make the cab 6 1/2' tall, then it would give me roughly 28-36" for the plants to grow in...so, we are talking some short and squat girls. This isn't a problem for me, seeing how my quest is more in the direction of indica dominant plants.

Well, it is a single 4" for two 400s, but not really. The 400s will be on a flip-flop, both on 12/12. The fan will only be cooling SEALED lights, but one at a time. I am thinking come off the fan with a "y" and then place motorized duct dampers that are set normally to closed in each direction of the "y". When the flip/flop switches, then one damper will lose power, thus closing it, while the second damper will gain power, thus opening it. This will focus the fan on only one hood at a time. So it is one fan, cooling 2 400s, but effectively only one at a time...

Didn't realize you were a hydro guy only. My previous exp. is with hydro, but for reasons stated in the first "essay"...lol...I am not considering hydro for now.

Curious, how long does it take you to veg your plants to fill your freezer, so that you are getting such a heavy pull...that is impressive with that lighting!!!

 

[dank.frank]

I understand what you are trying to say, I just dont see how they will all fit in

Get a picture of your proposed set up for me please

I'll work on that...not much of an artist, or computer drafter, but I will work on a draft of what I am thinking...

 

[FreezerBoy]

D'oh! Flip flop. duhhhh .... brain freeze. My SOGs were in the 18-24 inch range with a 150 but, there was no LST involved. Training keeps canopy low but, it chews up footprint too.

With Sativa's I veg as little as possible and let the 14-20 week flowering period fill the screen. Those puppies never stop stretching. Just sprouted some Mandala 8 Mile. With a 65 day flower I'd probably veg a month first but, I'm so buried in smoke right now, I may make it a speed run, to see if I've found my keeper or if the search continues.

 

[dank.frank]

This is a very rough interpretation of what I am thinking, but it covers all the bases that I was discussing in the post. You see where the back draft dampers, colored brown, would come into play, as far as limiting the amount of air that would have to be pulled by a 4" fan.

I noticed while reading the info for the 8"x8" darkroom louvers, that it says they are good for a room up to 12'x12'...so perhaps you, are correct about not needing that much passive intake...however, I don't know how higher heat plays into this...although, with a sealed, vented hood, I don't suppose heat should ever be an issue anyway...


http://www.icmag.com/ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=770477&ppuser=36917

 

[tito]

very cool keep it up

 

[dank.frank]

hmmm...I am really not sure if 100w per sqft is even necessary. I read an article years ago in HT magazine, and a guy was using a 1000w in a 3x3 area, and he was running 25 plants and pulling 1.5-2 lbs per cycle in that small of a space. So I kinda assume if I could replicate that concept on a smaller scale...then I would be able to achieve similar results statistically. From what I could gather from the article, titled "Big Yields in Small Spaces"...in a 3x3 he had 25 plants, so that is a 5X5 footprint with the pots so they had to be fairly crowded. I am not sure if this is possible b/c of the light penetration of a 1000w and is unrealistic with 400w or....ugh. I suppose I just need to quit theorizing and build, but I would hate to spend $$$ and not be satisfied in the end. I feel more research/opinions are necessary....

 

[dank.frank]

maybe in order to hit the yield I am looking for, I should keep all other things the same, make the Cab 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 ft. and use a 600w in each box?