Could legal marijuana save California's economy?

[mr noodles]

i don't think it will save the economy . let me explain...

at the moment that pot will be legal(in our dreams) the number of people who will start to grow pot will be out of hands and beyond the need of the market.

there will be so much pot on the market that the price will drop insanely . people will get stuck with humongous amounts of weed in bags...nobody will be ready to pay big $$$$ for something that can being grown legally under the sun .


pot will drop to a very low price per oz , where i live its 150 ? per oz and outdoor is sold under 1200 $ per pound .

i can see it from here....everyfucking body is going to have weed in their backyard .try to sell them some weed at 250 $ an oz just for fun !

if pot worth so much money its because of the risk of growing it and because its illegal .

sorry for being lucid about it .

 

[e20sm0ke]

i don't think it will save the economy . let me explain...

at the moment that pot will be legal(in our dreams) the number of people who will start to grow pot will be out of hands and beyond the need of the market.

there will be so much pot on the market that the price will drop insanely . people will get stuck with humongous amounts of weed in bags...nobody will be ready to pay big $$$$ for something that can being grown legally under the sun .


pot will drop to a very low price per oz , where i live its 150 ? per oz and outdoor is sold under 1200 $ per pound .

i can see it from here....everyfucking body is going to have weed in their backyard .try to sell them some weed at 250 $ an oz just for fun !

if pot worth so much money its because of the risk of growing it and because its illegal .

sorry for being lucid about it .

not everyone is gonna be growing. there is a TON of people who will not grow if its legalized. huge cash crop you are wrong

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Good point Mr Noodles.

I am reminded of an anology to prohibition of alcohol and the rise of the stil.

I recall how the feds tried to handle them with the "Revenuers" and am reminded of John Lee Pettimoore (JLP?????hmmmm) anyway, I would think that if the state were to tax MJ, they would need to control how much a person is able to grow for personal consumption.

I do not know if the sate actually enforces its of laws but:

California state statute § 23356.2 allows the manufacture of beer for personal or family use, and not for sale by a person over the age of 21. The aggregate amount of beer with respect to any household shall not exceed 200 gallons or 100 gallons if only one adult resides in such household.

so, even if we are legally allowed to grow mj, I would think that at some point California will have to control what you and I grow for ourselves...that seems costly and increase in government.....Unintended consequences???

minds_I

 

[Greyskull]

it probably won't "save" anything.... but it will help some, no doubt. Every little bit counts.

 

[Pythagllio]

Most undocumented workers would qualify for the EITC were they to file taxes. Let's not forget those that adopt someone's SSN and actually do pay into the system get charged with identity theft if caught. Oh, people also forget that those who employ these people can't deduct their wages, and end up paying taxes at the employer's marginal rate on that income. Toss out the employers who are tax scofflaws themselves and I'll wager that the Treasury is still ahead on a net basis.

I wonder if the people who adopt these negative attitudes toward the undocumented realize that this madness of drawing an imaginary line and saying people on one side can do stuff and those on the other are 'illegal' has been going on in CA since the 1800s. It was in fact the major catalyst of why CA state law against cannabis was passed ~1914. Does it not indicate something to you that you've adopted the same thinking that helped lead to the idiocy of cannabis laws?

 

[PharmaCan]

Wages are subject to the same laws of supply and demand as other aspects of the market/economy. It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with anyone who is either too stupid or too stubborn/idealistic to understand that.

Anyone who wants facts and figures can go to http://www.numbersusa.com

PC

 

[Pythagllio]

The first bad assumption that you make is that higher wages = a higher standard of living.

Which leads to the second bad assumption that higher prices = a higher standard of living. Which is the next step in supply and demand.

Of course the 3rd and worst bad assumption that there is some fixed number of jobs available. It just isn't true. You'd find an opportunity to have a lot more money if you figure this out. If you don't, you'll always be dependent on people like me.

With cities named Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc who the heck are the real interlopers? Did Anglos really pick all those Spanish language names?

Regardless the blog linked above obviously has an agenda and any information there is suspect based on the track record of those that support limited immigration. The truth is as much of an unwelcome visitor as it is at the offices of the ONDCP.

Social Security and Medicare will continue to eat more and more of the budget. We need increased population to support these people. It's either reproduce or allow significantly higher levels of immigration. Well, there is always the option of leaving grandma and grandpa starve by the side of the road. But somehow I don't think you'll talk the boomers into that.

The border is an imaginary line. The entire concept of 'legal' and 'illegal' immigration is imaginary. Let's get real, eh?

 

[e20sm0ke]

Many more people would start up smoking cannibas if it were legal

 

[N707]

Just want to throw a reminder out there...... this country is infact an immigrant country. If your busy worring about what the illegals are doing, just think about how Sitting bull and Running bear felt....

Seriously, stop whining. Incesant finger pointing and trying to figure out the source of economical glitches/failure is useless if your not directly connected with legilators/lawmakers or a social leader that can influence millions (and correct).
What is not useless is being resourcefull and sharp, even in these times it does not take a genius to find and indulge in a market.

 

[itsjustaride]

immigration is fine with me, and the mexicans i have met and worked closely with are good people. but who or what is really pushing all the illegals to come here, mexico is a awsome beuatiful paradice of a country. they have mountains that rival the grand canyon and beaches. the drug war is the true cause of the ongoing failure of the mexican government. i belive unchecked illegal immigration will ultimately destroy both our cultures, further closing the gap to say a north american union. or some bologna new currency.

 

[Thundurkel]

Illegal status of marijuana helps line the pockets of MANY people with lots of influence

-prisons
-dea
-police
-rehabs
-courts
-Pharmaceutical industry
-alcohol manufacturers



some of you think that the gov't is missing out on possible revenue due to marijuana being illegal, but they are actually raking it in

examples: how much money did the DEA make in those raids in L.A. in january?

how much money did Pharma make off of prozac/zoloft/paxil prescriptions last year? they would lose a lot of it to legal marijuana.

its all about the $$$. if the groups listed above thought they would make more $ by legalizing, it would already be done.

That's the best it can be said really...

 

[Capn]

 

[PharmaCan]

The first bad assumption that you make is that higher wages = a higher standard of living.

Which leads to the second bad assumption that higher prices = a higher standard of living. Which is the next step in supply and demand.

Of course the 3rd and worst bad assumption that there is some fixed number of jobs available. It just isn't true. You'd find an opportunity to have a lot more money if you figure this out. If you don't, you'll always be dependent on people like me.

With cities named Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc who the heck are the real interlopers? Did Anglos really pick all those Spanish language names?

Regardless the blog linked above obviously has an agenda and any information there is suspect based on the track record of those that support limited immigration. The truth is as much of an unwelcome visitor as it is at the offices of the ONDCP.

Social Security and Medicare will continue to eat more and more of the budget. We need increased population to support these people. It's either reproduce or allow significantly higher levels of immigration. Well, there is always the option of leaving grandma and grandpa starve by the side of the road. But somehow I don't think you'll talk the boomers into that.

The border is an imaginary line. The entire concept of 'legal' and 'illegal' immigration is imaginary. Let's get real, eh?

Sigh... California was settled by SPAIN, hence the SPANISH names for many of our cities. When Mexico ousted the Spanish colonialists, there were very few Mexicans in California and Mexico City never had any real control of the territory. In 1848, as per the terms of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the U.S. paid Mexico $15 million for the territory of California.

Truly though, if you want to believe in some kind of never-never land with no borders and no laws, I'd like to suggest that you spend a few years in Somalia and see how much you like the reality of your illusions. If you make it out alive... well, hell, you wouldn't, so what's the point in talking about it.

To others who replied to my prior posts - Telling you when you are being stupid is perhaps not tactful, but it is doing you a favor, particularly if it brings you closer to reality. There is a difference between an insult and name-calling. Perhaps you should explore the difference between the two.

Finally, this an MJ forum. If you want to defend illegal immigration, why don't you go to an illegal immigration forum and get your butts reamed by people who have verifiable facts, figures and statistics to counter your hyperbole. This really isn't the place for an in depth discussion of that topic.

I'm sorry I even mentioned this. However, California's budget problems can't be discussed without at least some reference to the underlying problems. If someone wants to dispute what I said with actual, verifiable data on how illegals are NOT a net loss to the state, I'd love to see it. But filling this thread with hyperbole, fantasy and propaganda - this just isn't the place for it.

PC

 

[kmk420kali]

If someone wants to dispute what I said with actual, verifiable data on how illegals are NOT a net loss to the state, I'd love to see it.

Bro, speaking for myself...I never said they weren't a net loss...damn, pot smokers are a net loss, if you add up the cost of the War on Drugs--
I'm just pointing out that other than that, if they maybe fixed a few things in BOTH areas...they could remove the "Net Loss" thing...or at least greatly reduce it--
But hating them is not the answer-- If you live in Cali, you will have no choice but to interact...it ain't that bad bro--

 

[PharmaCan]

Bro, speaking for myself...I never said they weren't a net loss...damn, pot smokers are a net loss, if you add up the cost of the War on Drugs--
I'm just pointing out that other than that, if they maybe fixed a few things in BOTH areas...they could remove the "Net Loss" thing...or at least greatly reduce it--
But hating them is not the answer-- If you live in Cali, you will have no choice but to interact...it ain't that bad bro--

Dude, I'm not hating THEM, I'm hating on their blatant disregard for our laws and on a government that continually pisses on my leg and tries to tell me it's raining.

...and, just like with MJ, I do have choices other than to sit back and accept the situation.

PC

 

[Pythagllio]

Many more people would start up smoking cannibas if it were legal

That's a mighty bold statement to make, especially since you have no factual basis whatever for making it. As a matter of fact, it seems other countries with less enforcement have lower rates of use. Then there's the fact that the various states with the lightest penalties also have statistically significant lower levels of use when compared to those with more draconian penalties. Going by evidence rather than fear mongering promulgated by the ONDCP and their ilk it is more likely accurate to claim that many less would take up cannabis use than do currently. BTW, smoking isn't the only method of ingestion, just the cheapest. Back in the 1800s early 1900s people almost always ate their cannabis.

But let's just suppose that you're right, for the sake of argument. Is it your submission that all the 'new' cannabis users would in fact have been sober as a judge otherwise? Because I think a person that drinks like a fish and substitutes cannabis has done himself a big favor. Even if a person justs drinks a few beers, and decides they prefer a joint or brownie instead, is that anything other than a lateral move? Could it really be that grandma will take up wearing tie dyes, banging a drum and following the Dead' because of the change in legal status? Even if grandma is gets in touch with her inner hippie, shouldn't she be living her life the way she prefers? What right do you have to say that grandma can't be a hippie?!? All the 'gateway/stepping stone' theory demonstrates is that people who like to get high, like to get high. Notice that concomitant with the decline in teenage cannabis use from 2001-2008 (per ONDCP's numbers) we see abuse of pharmas increase in a significant manner. Congratulations John Walters, you've managed to get teenagers off cannabis and into Vicodin. Heckuva job no doubt.

 

[CTSV]

Legalizing and taxing weed would fix the global economy...true story.

 

[mr noodles]

Legalizing and taxing weed would fix the global economy...true story.

it will take more than the whole marijuana legalisation to fix the nort american economy .
taxing marijuana will failed with vast majority of people.

why ?

peoples hire illegal immigrant just to save money on salary, taxes and all
peoples avoid to pay taxes in most occasion offered to them, aka paying cash with no bills .the construction industry is on is ass for this reason too...people hire illegal and undeclared workers all the time .

marijuana legal and a brutal drop in price)will make marijuana revenue a marginal income in a total is values non stop bleeding wounds of the national debt .weed price might drop to a ridiculous point in time when farmers start to overflow the market with thousands of tons of it....try to get even 1500 a pounds then lol ! here its already a price war . an oz over 150 = being buttfucked because the market is over crowded and its not unusual to have people complaining about being jammed with 2-3 crop in bags with nobody to buy it . i had a m-39 oz for 110 $, mature ,flushed, and not compressed and dryyyyy. comparable to black rain m-39 picture, very frosted .outdoor weed is a a very low price...so figure out in a totally overcrowded market shared by small grower and industrial size entrepreneurs with thousands of acres of land and thousands of industrial giant greenhouse .

people don't like to pay taxes and honestly , i don't know a single person that is happy and ready to pay more taxes .

secure the us/mexican border instead of be the ridiculous police of the world in the middle east and asia...like a dea over the world...this is where money is going . then i might be ready to start talking about taxes .


its easy to figure that a lb of weed will worth a fraction of is actual cost soon as the growing machine will be full speed ahead . taxes will not be calculated at a ridiculous 4000 $ a p but at 500 $ if very lucky . now pay taxes....

cant wait to see weed at wall mart ...

 

[Koroz]

it will take more than the whole marijuana legalisation to fix the nort american economy .
taxing marijuana will failed with vast majority of people.

why ?

peoples hire illegal immigrant just to save money on salary, taxes and all
peoples avoid to pay taxes in most occasion offered to them, aka paying cash with no bills .the construction industry is on is ass for this reason too...people hire illegal and undeclared workers all the time .

marijuana legal and a brutal drop in price)will make marijuana revenue a marginal income in a total is values non stop bleeding wounds of the national debt .weed price might drop to a ridiculous point in time when farmers start to overflow the market with thousands of tons of it....try to get even 1500 a pounds then lol ! here its already a price war . an oz over 150 = being buttfucked because the market is over crowded and its not unusual to have people complaining about being jammed with 2-3 crop in bags with nobody to buy it . i had a m-39 oz for 110 $, mature ,flushed, and not compressed and dryyyyy. comparable to black rain m-39 picture, very frosted .outdoor weed is a a very low price...so figure out in a totally overcrowded market shared by small grower and industrial size entrepreneurs with thousands of acres of land and thousands of industrial giant greenhouse .

people don't like to pay taxes and honestly , i don't know a single person that is happy and ready to pay more taxes .

secure the us/mexican border instead of be the ridiculous police of the world in the middle east and asia...like a dea over the world...this is where money is going . then i might be ready to start talking about taxes .


its easy to figure that a lb of weed will worth a fraction of is actual cost soon as the growing machine will be full speed ahead . taxes will not be calculated at a ridiculous 4000 $ a p but at 500 $ if very lucky . now pay taxes....

cant wait to see weed at wall mart ...

to only comment on the part I bolded in your quoted message above.

This is only true in some cases. For example I was an IT minion for a 70 location fast food franchise in a SW state that is very well known for illegal immigration. Want to know why we hired illegals from time to time? It sure wasn't to save money, or taxes, it was because the US government gives no real way to verify SSN's.

There is no real good way to verify if your worker is a legit documented worker or someone using a stolen identity. Also, we would love to not even have to hire illegals but we can't pick and choose who we hire on the base of their skin. What I can tell you is that white workers in the area where we frequently would open stores wouldn't take jobs at minimum wage. Sorry but flipping burgers, although fast paced isn't a 10 dollar an hour job. The Hispanic workers we have are mostly older, hard working people trying to make it for themselves.

Most of the white workers we hire at the same pay rate, with the same job either show up late constantly, screw off and work half as hard, or just quit after a week or two. The bottom line is, if we COULD avoid the headache of hiring possible illegal immigrants we would have.

Also one more note to think about, even the criminals who steal identities are getting shafted and would benefit from some sort of immigration reform, because a lot of them (all who use stolen SSN at least) pay taxes they NEVER get back because they can't claim it or they would be found out. That means every check federal, state, medicare, and SS are taken out of their checks which they will never see a dime of.

Until the government actually puts a system in place that the people "agree" with and don't get all up in arms about in regards to personal privacy most employers who are just trying to do the right thing are stuck between a rock and a hard place, its not like we can just stop hiring Hispanics and then if we do we run the risk of getting the shaft with fines and possible closure/jail time because the government has no real system in place to actually check with a real definitive result on if someone is or isn't an illegal.

but then again, maybe we should just racial profile right? (psst the secret answer is no, we shouldn't) Since we aren't getting rid of taxes anytime soon, at least what as a country we need to do is tax on consumption not wages. Then everyone pays a fair share of what they use, and will pay taxes when things are bought and not just taken out of their check by some arbitrary numbers bracket we are segregated into.

 

[PharmaCan]

to only comment on the part I bolded in your quoted message above.

This is only true in some cases. For example I was an IT minion for a 70 location fast food franchise in a SW state that is very well known for illegal immigration. Want to know why we hired illegals from time to time? It sure wasn't to save money, or taxes, it was because the US government gives no real way to verify SSN's.

There is no real good way to verify if your worker is a legit documented worker or someone using a stolen identity. Also, we would love to not even have to hire illegals but we can't pick and choose who we hire on the base of their skin. What I can tell you is that white workers in the area where we frequently would open stores wouldn't take jobs at minimum wage. Sorry but flipping burgers, although fast paced isn't a 10 dollar an hour job. The Hispanic workers we have are mostly older, hard working people trying to make it for themselves.

Most of the white workers we hire at the same pay rate, with the same job either show up late constantly, screw off and work half as hard, or just quit after a week or two. The bottom line is, if we COULD avoid the headache of hiring possible illegal immigrants we would have.

Also one more note to think about, even the criminals who steal identities are getting shafted and would benefit from some sort of immigration reform, because a lot of them (all who use stolen SSN at least) pay taxes they NEVER get back because they can't claim it or they would be found out. That means every check federal, state, medicare, and SS are taken out of their checks which they will never see a dime of.

Until the government actually puts a system in place that the people "agree" with and don't get all up in arms about in regards to personal privacy most employers who are just trying to do the right thing are stuck between a rock and a hard place, its not like we can just stop hiring Hispanics and then if we do we run the risk of getting the shaft with fines and possible closure/jail time because the government has no real system in place to actually check with a real definitive result on if someone is or isn't an illegal.

but then again, maybe we should just racial profile right? (psst the secret answer is no, we shouldn't) Since we aren't getting rid of taxes anytime soon, at least what as a country we need to do is tax on consumption not wages. Then everyone pays a fair share of what they use, and will pay taxes when things are bought and not just taken out of their check by some arbitrary numbers bracket we are segregated into.

There is a federal program called E-Verify that allows employers to verify the validity of SS#'s online. Sorry, but your statement just isn't true - at least not anymore. (E-Verify was only started a few years ago.)

PC