Perpetual grow - minimum number of plants and how to?

[rando]

Hello, I am new to the forum and new to growing. I'm working on getting everything together and also learning how to do it for my first grow. I am starting from seeds but plan to use clones based of whichever seed is a female and looks the best after that.

Unfortunately I have limited money and limited space. I could easily make this work if those two things were not a problem, but I have to make do with what I have.

First a bit of details about my plan: I will be growing in a wardrobe that is about 20 inches deep, 29 inches wide, and 47 inches tall on the main top part and will additionally be pulling the drawers out of the bottom and cover that part which will give me an another chamber that is 20 deep x 29 tall x 18 tall. I can't modify the wardrobe too heavily as it is not mine and when I move out it has to look somewhat like it looked when I moved it - cutting a couple of holes for ventilation is going to be about the most I can do to it to actually alter the structure. That is all the space I have to work with, so I plan to use the bottom for growing the seeds/clones and the top for the plants.

I only plan on growing 2 plants at a time and am looking at the Pot-ponics Bio-Bizz 3 plant kit to get me started ( http://www.growell.co.uk/p/1281/Pot-ponics-Bio-Bizz-Organic-Kits.html ) and also CFL light for the clones/seeds ( http://www.growell.co.uk/p/1582/CFL-Lead-and-Lampholder-including-complete-kits-.html - will that be enough light for the clones? And what color do I need?).

As stated my plan is to grow seeds (a pack of 5 papya probably) and then see what I have and grow clones from the best of them.

1) I realize that I have to cut the clones before the plants flower and then wait for the flowering to see which are male and which are female. What do I do with the male plants at this point (the originals from seeds)? I have no plans of playing with polinating or saving seeds but I hate to waste the plants, and I have no room/lights to move them to to finish growing them - do I just need to destroy them?

2) Is it even possible to keep a perpetual cycle going with just 2 plants and 2 growing areas? I'm looking at the time for each growth period and it isnt adding up, so please correct me if I am wrong or offer any advice on how to do this.

*2-3 weeks under the CFL light 24/0
*2-3 weeks under HPS light 18/6
*take cuttings for clones
*4-5 weeks under HPS light 12/12

So the problem I see is that when my clones are ready to go to the main growing area for some 18/6 lighting I will be in the 12/12 stage for the previous batch.

Obviously adding a 3rd growing area and an additional light would solve the problem. I could probably figure out a way to divide the main area into two chambers, but the biggest problem is that I just don't have the money right now for another HPS lighting setup.

Is there a way to make this work?

I'm open to any suggestions, advice, or constructive criticism that you guys have to offer! I'm ready to learn.

 

[hassan-i-sahba]

1 - kill the males if you don't want to make seeds. i know it hurts...

2 - take the clones just before flowering starts. that way they take a couple of weeks to root, and you'll have about 7 weeks to keep them alive before going to 12/12. as your veg room is going to have a height of 18 inches that might mean you have to top or lst your plants to keep them short. then stick them in the flowering room once your 12/12 plants have finished, taking clones beforehand, and repeat.

good luck. it can be done!

 

[sparkjumper]

The first thing I do when planning a perpetual grow from clones is to flower all seedplants before making a decision on phenotype.This means taking cuts from each female in veg so you know when the original seedplant flowers which clone will be your perpetual pheno.Too many people make a choice of pheno in veg because the plant is "pretty".This makes no sense as the finished product is what you're after.I look for finishing time,quality and yield when choosing a pheno to clone indefinately

 

[rando]

hassan-i-sahba - thanks for the tips! I didn't realize you could keep them for that long in the veg room. I realize now though that this will add a bit of time to the whole process, so perhaps I should do 3 plants instead of 2 as it will take longer between each harvest (just looking for enough to keep me happy ).

sparkjumper - thank you too - I thought you couldn't determine sex until after flowering? Perhaps I need to research that a bit more. So much to learn.

 

[justanotherbozo]

censorship sucks

 

[sparkjumper]

Rando its a rare occurence when I cant determine sex after 5 weeks or so with a good magnifying glass.Only in the rarest of instances have I had to switch to 12/12 for a few days to determine sex.The key is learning to identify the parts but just as importantly use a good magnifying glass.

 

[KUSHEATER1]

your here so get to reading and welcome to the place that will show you all the tricks to growing great medical grade Dank as simple as possible...

 

[sparkjumper]

Preflowering is part of the veg stage.The best way with out pics to describe a female preflower is it is smooth in appearence and sort of teardrop/pear shaped.eventually a pistil or white hair will protrude.A male preflower is usually rounder,coarser and sometimes has a sticklike protrusion.I swear man with a good magnifying glass you'll be identifying the sex of 18-20 inch vegging plants easily

 

[SweetnSourMad]

Kill those males as soon as you notice them balls! Yes it is very possible, I only use two chambers built easily and efficiently into my spare room closet. 2x4x6 and 2x4x2. I use a 400 watt digital HPS for flowering, switching to the conversion MH bulb for vegging, and a t-8 for the clones, it works great for the price never had a problem vegging,cloning or seeding. vegging can be tricky under the floro as it needs to be moved constantly.

I was lucky to have all females for my grow w seeds, but I preflowered/vegged a month til i knew they were female and flipped those bad boys then. stretch was morethan i wanted, but using HST and supercropping I got huge banana buds from broken tops that i healed

Just do your homework, and relax and don't overdo anything, it will do its thing when you let it. AND REMEMBER LESS IS MORE for nutes, and let those pots dry in between watering, over watering is the biggest problem for first timers. Good luck, have fun.

 

[rando]

Thanks again for the welcomes and advice.

justanotherbozo - thanks for the tips! I hadn't really checked out the micro grow forum yet, but am find a lot of good info there. I looked in to getting things separately instead of a kit and I think I can do a lot better getting what I need from different places not all together. I also found an indoor gardening supply store that has free shipping to my area! So that will cut a lot of cost for stuff like soil (I live in an urban area, so the only option I have is store bought soil).

I think for the 30 pounds the CFL light I was looking at cost I could definitely do a lot better by building my own - something like the one in your picture with three or four sockets with splitters. Going to head over to the hardware store tomorrow and check out the prices for some local equipment.

Also, you are right - I am anxious to get started! But I know I need to slow down and do it right. So yeah, I'm going to just concentrate on getting the seeds, sprouting them, and then have a veg room set up for them. After that I will have 2-4 weeks to build the flower room and then another 2-3 weeks before I need to have a place set up for clones, so no hurry.

sparkjumper - thanks for the tips on checking for the sex of the plant. I will definitely do some more reading on this so I will be prepared to figure them out.

A couple of more questions for you guys (stuff that I haven't found answers for yet in the forums).

Is it normal to keep one mother plant for cloning, or can I just take clones from each new plant as I am going along? Are there any pros/cons to doing it either way?

Can you point me to a tutorial or something that will explain the different stages of growing in detail and how fast or slow you can push each stage and the consequences? More specifically (and maybe this can just be answered directly), what's the quickest way to go from a seed to having the end result in my hand? I know it's bad to rush, but I'm dry right now and all my money is going in to this...so I would like to make the first batch go a bit quicker and then take my time and work on improving quality and quantity for the second round.

 

[SweetnSourMad]

Thanks again for the welcomes and advice.



Is it normal to keep one mother plant for cloning, or can I just take clones from each new plant as I am going along? Are there any pros/cons to doing it either way?

you can do both, but if space is an issue, keep taking clones from plants before the first 2 weeks of 12/12, keep a mother if you are new to cloning and afraid of losing a beauty. nothing worse than banishing the one plant that tastes like fruity pebbles...

 

[justanotherbozo]

censorship sucks

 

[rando]

Ok, I'm running into a new problem...amps.

From what I have read a 400w HPS runs about 4 amps, and 20w CFLs run about 2 amps a piece - so if I had even just 6 23w CFLS for the veg and 1 400w HPS for the flower room I'm looking at 16 amps PLUS fans and any other electronics running on the same breaker/fuse...

Unfortunately the breaker to the outlets in that room is only 16 amp (and I'm renting and cannot modify anything). So I need to keep the whole operation under 12-13 amps tops. I figure 2-3 amps for fans and 4 for HPS - leaves me about 6 amps for CFLs. Will 3 30w CFLs be sufficient for a 20x29x18 veg chamber with just a few clones (at the most) in it? I think so...but would like some reassurance from the experts.

 

[rando]

I talked to a friend who is studying electrical stuff and he says that amps = watts/divided by volts. So a 30w bulb on a 240v line (UK) would only be .25 amps. Does that sound correct? If so, then problem solved.

 

[hassan-i-sahba]

I talked to a friend who is studying electrical stuff and he says that amps = watts/divided by volts. So a 30w bulb on a 240v line (UK) would only be .25 amps. Does that sound correct? If so, then problem solved.

your friend is correct. amps = watts/volts. so on a typical 13 amp domestic uk circuit you can run (240 x 13) watts, which is 3120 watts. i'd take off 10% of that for safety's sake, which leaves you with approx 2.8kw before you blow a fuse.

i have personally run 1800w of lights, an air conditioner and fans off one domestic circuit. you'll be good to go with one circuit.

i would, however, advise that you look into relays for your timer, as the cheap, segment-type timers often break (sometimes fusing dangerously) when they handle the inductive load of a hps switching on. as well as this being annoying and potentially dangerous it can screw up your light cycle and make your plants behave in unwanted ways.

 

[rando]

Thanks for the confirmation! Things are falling into place

I ordered some seeds - decided to go with White Skunk for a variety of reasons. Right now I'm working on the CFL setup for the seeds/clones - I've got most of the equipment, just have to get it all put together.

 

[tito]

very good

 

[facelift]

You can plan a perpetual grow on paper, but when you really get into it, it requires flexibility. I didn't plan, I just got the ball rolling and modified my actions to meet the situation. An extra week of flower or a late start on any group of plants, and you will most likely find yourself sitting for a few weeks waiting for the next harvest.

With clones it should be a breeze, compared to the seeds I'm using. My small space only hold 8 proper containers and I never know how many females I'm going to have. However my flower area is big enough so that there's space for more plants most of the time.

It might seem that the perpetual grow is running you because you're constantly waiting for the plant to make their move, but in the end, you're that one in control. You're the one who got the ball rolling to begin with.

 

[jtk707]

Grow enough plants to keep you high until your next crop . 3-6 every 2-4 weeks