Critique my SOG plans.

[flat5th]

CHAPTER 1: THE 50 PLANT AERO SOG - starts on page 2, post #28
CHAPTER 2: THE LOWES/HD AERO TUB ScrOG - starts on page 9, post #125


Hey everyone.

I'm on a constant mission to maximize my space. If you look at my albums you can see what i currently deal with in flower.

I've been messing with Scrog and LST for a little bit now trying to use every square inch of light. It's better than i was doing, but not great. So here i am deciding to move on to SOG.

I really like the idea of SOG, but have steered away from it in the past due to high plant count. But i think the time has come. So here are my floor plans. Please feel free to comment or critique. This is my first experience with SOG so i am anxious to see where i may be going wrong.

Here's what i'm doing:
My flower area is 61" x 33" x 72" (WxDxH)
2 400w HPS aircooled
4 separate tubs that will be used in a DWC setting.
clones in rapid rooters, then into hydroton and 3" netpots

Check out the pics i've attached. The first layout is nice because it's an even distribution of plants all the way around. It also works well with my 4 week perpetual harvest, i'd be harvesting 20 plants every 4 weeks with this layout.

Layout 2 is using the same equipment, but in a different configuration so i could run up to 4 different strains or adjust my schedule to harvest 8, 12, or 16 plants every 2 weeks.

Initial thoughts on layout?
Any suggestions on how to discontinue the dependence on rooters and rocks? i've tried the foam collars and aero cloners but have always failed.

thanks very much!
-Fifth.

 

[razz]

go with setup #2

 

[flat5th]

Thanks for the reply razz.

Can I ask why you suggest #2? Is it the flexibility of the strains and schedules? or do you prefer the spacing?

 

[razz]

i prefer the spacing, it looks a little easier to work the plants if you need to get in there.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

with a width of 33", you wont have any issue reaching plants. Either setup will allow you to run 4 strains

I say setup #1. If for some reason you need to get into a rez, you can simply pull from the corner and pull the system out. With the two locked in, in #2, it may be a PITA

 

[pokerfish]

If you're interesting in testing your imagination, then think vertical with your closet. Here's an idea, one that would require tweaking/refining, but roughly...

You have 5' of width to work with. Run two vertical walls of growth on either side of your two bulbs vertically stacked, in-line using cool tubes, or the like. So, in the middle you have a 6" up & down tube. On either side, apprx 2' away (fixed positioning), you have two walls starting from near the floor running up appx 5' high, leaving you 1.5' to the ceiling. Overall, you will have two growing areas appx 30"x60". Nothing is grown on the back wall- reflective material.

You will, on paper, double your total grow area. Effectively, your total yield will increase, though nowhere near double- differences in how the plants grow/perform vertically, not a true apples2apples comparison. Just an idea if you want to go radical...

 

[flat5th]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I've tweaked this whole thing a bit. What do you all think about this:

I am moving on to Aeroponics. This has several advantages for me:

- No more rocks or rooters to buy or clean
- No more separate tubs, just 1 res and 1 shelf of plants
- No more air pumps, air stones, or air hoses (what a PITA!)
- Much less maintenance.
- More usable space.

I really only have 2 questions now.

1.) how many plants per sq ft is optimal? i know this is a relative question depending on setup and grow ability. I'm planning on using fully rooted clones with MAYBE 1 week of veg. Right now i'm thinking 2-4 per sq ft. anyone with experience please throw your 2 cents in.

2.) i need some advice on the pump. I'll be using several lengths of PVC with 360 degree sprayers tapped in. To cover an area roughly 3'x5', using between 20-40 spray heads, what size pump would create a good mist? Again, i know it's relative to height above pump, etc. But anyone with experience, please chime in.

Ok, here are my proposed layouts. again, the area is 61" x 31" (with a little wiggle room).

Key:
Black Circles - Plant sites
Red Circles - Spray heads
Gray bars - PVC pipes
Green boxes - proposed spacing.

Thanks!
Fifth.

 

[pokerfish]

brother, which ad did you copy the bullets from..? or you a leo lookin for leads...? proxy this..i..

 

[flat5th]

brother, which ad did you copy the bullets from..? or you a leo lookin for leads...? proxy this..i..

what the fuck are you talking about? bullets? what ad? are you referring to my list of advantages? if so...I TYPED THAT SHIT UP FROM MY LIST OF PROs VS. CONs. I want to improve my system, i do that by writing a list of all the shit i hate and how to fix it.

I'm asking for advice on my setup...i didn't think i said any sketchy shit.

"I've got my eye on you, Pokerfish" ahahahahahahah.

whatever. fucking paranoid, feel free to unsubscribe.

-Fifth.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

If you are going to veg AMX 7 days, then SOG at 4 PSF, lollipop them around day 14 of 12/12 for single cola buds.

Hope you know what you are getting into with aero.

 

[twowordz]

"I've got my eye on you, Pokerfish" ahahahahahahah.
-Fifth.

that made me lol

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

If you are going Aero I suggest putting in a row of pvc and sprayers around the edge to. Otherwise those plants are only getting half the spray. That gives those plants two disadvantages, the first being they get the worst light.

 

[flat5th]

Thanks very much for the advice everyone.

Yamaha_1fan : I don't quite know what i'm getting into. I've done DWC bubblers forever and i think this is the next step for me. I'm going to take it slow and build a small scale version to learn the ropes.

I've been doing some reading and research and i've got a few questions now:

1.) Am i using too many sprayers in my drawings above? is it necessary to have that many? is there a rule of thumb?

2.) how far below the netpots/root zone should the spray heads be?

That's it for now. I just finished reading "Pirate's Cave"...i don't know whether to change my pants or quit growing. that is some amazing shit.

And Pirate, if you happen to come through here, i have those exact black tubs from home depot. i want to build that exact system. I looked through the whole Cave thread for DIY for either the Dingy or the Yacht but couldn't find them. I would love to see both, but I KNOW you are busy.

my mind is on overload now!

fifth.

 

[Pirate]

I copied these questions from your post in the other thread: I am going to copy my answer here and post it back over there. (duplicate)
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111457&page=2

Pirate - Your aero setup looks very similar to what I'm hoping to accomplish.
Could i ask a few questions about your setup?

How many spray heads do you have in your system?

How big is your pump to power that many heads?

How many plants are in that system (looks like 7x6=42 plants)?

what are your biggest obstacles/headaches with aero?

I've been doing DWC for a while but want to move away from air pumps and stones. Aero seems like the next stage but i'm just not sure how i want to go about it. if you have time could you take a look at my thread and offer any advice? http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110873 (the aero stuff starts at post #7)

First I want to say this: (so I don't get the 3rd degree from true Aeroheads)
My tables aren't really a true aeroponic system. Its a hybrid NFT/Aero type thing. (True Aero uses mist / fog with high pressure sprayers). I call it Aero for simplicity.

Anyway, the system you see is a test run. I am going to build 7 more for a total of 8 tables now that I've run that single table to harvest with ZERO problems and good buds. (testing confirms it works well) (This is an upgrade from my previous DIY aero system) The table is a 3x3 flood tray with a self drilled ABS top. I bought the sheet stock ABS from a local plastics company. I drilled a 3x3 sheet out for 2 inch net cups. The net cups contain a Rapid Rooter with a neoprene cap. I drilled my holes at 5.5 inches on center which drops 50 plants into the 3x3 space. In a SOG if you figure a lollipopped plant averaging 10 grams per plant you'd get 500 grams per table. (I've done better and done worse) With the right strain you can get 14 grams per plant. ( I finally found that one) AK47 and some Satori !!

How many spray heads do you have in your system?

Right now I have 12 and thats worked but my next tables will all get 16.(better) I found the elcheapo mini sprinklers from any hardware store to be the best. The cloner misters are cheesy and don't cover as well

How big is your pump to power that many heads?

I have 1 - 650 GPH pump and its worked fine. I am going to bump it up to a single 1200+ GPH pump and run 2 tables from one pump. I for-see no problems with that. I have a separate rez where the pump is submerged and a return pipe which drops the solution back in the rez. The solution cycles 24 hours a day

How many plants are in that system (looks like 7x6=42 plants)?

again......50 in a 3x3 table top......... SOG. The beauty is, I have grown 6 foot tall plants in that thing with a 2 inch net cup.

what are your biggest obstacles/headaches with aero?

To be honest.........Not many. I would say the biggest drawback would be pump failure or filter/sprayer clogs. I check my filters daily so I never get clogs. (But the more additives you use the more you increase the the probability of clogging. I use no additives)......LUCAS FORMULA = No Clogs) Also.... to prevent possible power failure I installed a UPS computer back up battery that keeps the pump running in case of power failure which is common in my area.

Its different strokes for different folks
Everyone talks about how hard or unstable Aero is but I have tried every type of system I could and Aero is by far the easiest and fastest I have found yet. If its good enough for NASA.........its good enough for me. I have not had any real problems with aero. as long as you set it up right and add in your protections as described above.........Aero is the way to go. Sometimes I leave for 3 days at a time and come home to " happy to see daddy plants" Healthy a green. I HATE the gro rocks with a freakin passion. (what a PITA those are) HATE rockwool. (very unstable, even after conditioning, its just ancient technology) IMO any other way is like using the original APPLE computer from 1980 to surf the web. I use 1 net cup, 1 rapid rooter, 1 neoprene color and that's it. I buy rooters for every run but I only spend $12.00 per run to get 500+ grams. (you do the math). After harvest, drop the cups and neoprene into the washer machine with a cup of bleach and walk away. CLEAN and ready for the next run !!

In 2 years of running aero I have had ONE incident where I almost lost a whole table. MY OWN FAULT. I left the pump off and didn't know it for almost 24 hours. I saved 46 plants out of 50 though. That's when I came up with the UPS backup idea.

My mothers are in coco. I flood and drain 1 time per day. ZERO problems.

Questions answered ??

 

[flat5th]

Pirate - THANKS! THANKS A MILLION!

yes you answered my questions and eased my mind about a lot of things.

I've already bought a load of 360 degree spray heads. So for now i'll stick with those. I haven't been growing that long, but i've tried many systems. I really hate rockwool, rocks, lots of hoses and tubes, buying rapid rooters and all that type of shit. "aero" seems to be the best solution to these problems and you've definitely straightened me out on things.

thanks again pirate!

Fifth.

 

[Pirate]

What instruments do ya play?

I'm a guitarist myself.

"Flat5th"........ A favorite note I presume?

 

[flat5th]

What instruments do ya play?

I'm a guitarist myself.

"Flat5th"........ A favorite note I presume?

Ha ha. Right you are my friend! i saw a few bud and guitar pics in your cave.

I play bass guitar and tenor sax. the flat 5 isn't necessarily my favorite note, but it rolls off the tongue and makes a bitching username. good catch!

I've been researching plastic sheets all morning now. If i could ask a few questions about that...

what thickness did you use? i'm thinking 1/4" but would love to go 1/8" to save $$ if possible.

Does the material matter? ABS, Polystyrene, polypropylene, etc...they are all different prices and have different properties. If i were flying blind (which i am) i would go for something FDA/non-toxic and Cheap...

anything else i should consider?

For my first trial run, do you think some thin plywood with some type of waterproofing would suffice?

sorry to be a bother. I just want this to be the last system i ever build and i want to do it right. You seem to be doing exactly what i want to do (on a smaller scale than yours).

thanks again. i'm really glad i found your thread.
Fifth.

PS - Just a passing thought...you say you've never had a clogged nozzle and you run your pumps 24/7 right? I imagine that's the easiest way to avoid build up, never let it dry up!

 

[Pirate]

Ha ha. Right you are my friend! i saw a few bud and guitar pics in your cave.

I play bass guitar and tenor sax. the flat 5 isn't necessarily my favorite note, but it rolls off the tongue and makes a bitching username. good catch!

I've been researching plastic sheets all morning now. If i could ask a few questions about that...

what thickness did you use? i'm thinking 1/4" but would love to go 1/8" to save $$ if possible.

Does the material matter? ABS, Polystyrene, polypropylene, etc...they are all different prices and have different properties. If i were flying blind (which i am) i would go for something FDA/non-toxic and Cheap...

anything else i should consider?

For my first trial run, do you think some thin plywood with some type of waterproofing would suffice?

sorry to be a bother. I just want this to be the last system i ever build and i want to do it right. You seem to be doing exactly what i want to do (on a smaller scale than yours).

thanks again. i'm really glad i found your thread.
Fifth.

PS - Just a passing thought...you say you've never had a clogged nozzle and you run your pumps 24/7 right? I imagine that's the easiest way to avoid build up, never let it dry up!

Cool on the bass and sax !! I knew it.

I would go with the 1/4 inch OR 3/16 minimum.

ABS. Just about all hydro plastics are made from ABS so I know its safe. Plus, glues and silicone's stick to it better than some other plastics. See if you can find a local supplier and pick it up to save on shipping. I buy 4x8 sheets to get 2 tops for 80 bucks.....plus lots of scrap for building all kinds of things.

Wood will soak up moisture and mold. Don't do it.

Before I had the ABS sheeting idea.........I bought 1/4 inch plexiglass from the Hardware Store. Drill your holes, sand one side with rough paper, paint with flat black spray paint.... let dry ....paint with flat white spray paint, maybe 2 times to keep light out.Hold it up to a light to verify no bleeding. Bam new top. Maybe 50 bucks total for a 2x4 top. CAUTION: Plexi will crack if your not careful when drilling. Go slow and easy. i am still using a couple of those 2 years later.

LEXAN glue in the tube will bond tight to ABS and Plexi. Find it in the Window repair section of your hardware store if you need it. After trying MANY glues and epoxies.........this works the best.

CLOGS
OK. Not that I've never had a clogged nozzle. I've had many. I just figured out how to avoid it. Look up the Lucas Formula. It sounds complicated at first, but believe me. Read it a few time and it will be clear. Its so easy a cave man could do it. Once I went with the Lucas Formula.........Clogs disappeared because it eliminated 90% of the crap we feed our plants that causes the clogs. All you need is GH Micro and Bloom. That's it. Anything else is total overkill and does not make it grow better or faster. I have tried it all. Lucas Works. NO ADDITIVES. Your just throwing your money away. I just ran my new table for 65 days ...24/7 without 1 clogged sprayer. BUT, I clean my in-line filter daily (this takes 1 minute) and I have an intake filter on my pump.(which I have not cleaned yet) I will when I harvest (in 3 days).That way I start fresh with the new batch going in.

DO NOT worry about questions. This is why we are all here. To learn. Me from you, you from me.

Lets all sing.......in a flat 5th........"We're just one big happy family..... LA LA lalalalala.....LAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa."

 

[flat5th]

So sweet. This plan is coming together soooo nicely.

Our little local hydro club met this evening and one of the members gave me a 30.5" x 30.5" x 10" tub that is PERFECT for this setup. It's exactly what i dreamed of buying but couldn't find for less than $200. He says he got it at our local hydro store so i am going there tomorrow to see if they have another of the exact same and hopefully some sort of matching lids/covers that i could drill into. That way i can run 2 of those tubs side by side and it would fill my area PERFECTLY!!!

It would allow me to run 50 total plants (25 in each tub) at 5.625" on center.

Here is my new proposed layout:

I'll be using 16 sprayers in each tub for a total of 32 sprayers. I will be attempting to run both tubs off of my brand spankin' new 800gph active aqua pump. Hopefully it's strong enough. I bought 2 just in case but i would like to keep 1 as an emergency back up and i think 800 for just one tub may be a tad overkill.

Pirate: I am very aware of the Lucas Method. I currently use "Latewood's Recipe" from cannabis.com which uses all 3 parts of the GH line. I have thought long and hard about switching to Lucas and I think it is finally time. I am just about out of Nutes and buying 2 bottles is way more attractive than buying 3. Plus the math is way easier for Lucas.

I am so excited. i should probably go to bed cuz it's gonna be a LOOOONG weekend. I'll post pics all along the way.

Fifth.

 

[Pirate]

Looks like the perfect plan. Those are some good tubs to do what you want to do.

If you can find a pre-made top without holes...........I wanna know where cause I ended building my own stuff when I could not find ANY tops not already drilled.

Have fun building........I always do.