DEA is still at it-- 5 Raids in LA today--

[IE2KS_KUSH]

He's saying it's not a good strategy. Good short term for the sick but bad long term for rec users.
It just serves to separate the two even more, which is exactly what the DEA tries to do when they make up their little schedule.

Bang.
Who's to say that hypothetical federal medical guidelines wouldn't exclude me, or you, or YOU! You just don't know, but I wouldn't put it past the feds. They don't have a good track record. Just another way to hinder progress for at least another 60 years, maybe more!

I can't support it. I would rather take my chances, and know that I am not supporting the incarceration of anyone that uses cannabis, in trade for a select few whom the government decides are "entitled" to use cannabis.
You don't get special rights based on any medical condition, this is America, everyone is equal.
Everyone should be able to use cannabis regardless of why they choose to without fear of prosecution. Limiting the argument/debate to medical use allows you to be put into that box, then the definition of "medical use" will change as per whatever the fed decides. Then what are you gonna do, where will we be then? Sounds like we are already there folks, no need to work towards that goal, we are there now.
I understand that it has a wide medical use, however you and I will not be determining what "acceptable medical use is", big brother will. YOU OK with that?

Honestly, can you pick any drug that is a schedule 2 and tell me that it compares to cannabis and that honestly you feel it's true, just, and honest that cannabis be a schedule 2? Please answer these 2 specific questions. If you answer no to either, you need to re-evaluate exactly where you stand politically on this issue. I think, just what I think. I may be dead wrong. I might not be. I dunno, but if we are still here 4, 8, 20, years from now we will know.

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

But its not a perfect world. And in order to win the war, the right strategic moves are necessary.

I agree 100%,
we just don't agree on the strategy.

 

[Pythagllio]

Eventually the "Interstate Commerce" clause will be shot down as too vague--

You've got to be kidding. Are you really suggesting that part of the Constitution can be struck down? Man you must have an out of this world strain to be thinking that. Sorry if I sound disrespectful, but it is ludicrous to suggest the above. I can see the headline now---> "Supreme Court declares US Constitution unconstitutional!"

 

[kmk420kali]

You've got to be kidding. Are you really suggesting that part of the Constitution can be struck down? Man you must have an out of this world strain to be thinking that. Sorry if I sound disrespectful, but it is ludicrous to suggest the above. I can see the headline now---> "Supreme Court declares US Constitution unconstitutional!"

Calm down Homie...I am talking about the current interpretation of it that the Feds are using, stating that since MJ has the capability or possibility of being taken over State lines, that all MJ falls under this Clause-- Granting Federal Jurisdiction--
I believe that is one of the purposes of the AG Guidelines pushing for a "Closed System" for Coops and such...if they can confine it to a small, traceable loop, where the Medicine is accounted for from seed to use, it might take that power away from the Feds--

 

[Hydro-Soil]

First of all, hi, I am new here. ummhumm.
NOw then, as I understand it, according to you there is acceptable medical use, or the government correct?
Well, to be perfectly honest with you, making special laws just for "MMJ" is blatanly discriminatory and flat out wrong! You have no special entitlement more so than anyone else to use cannabis period. I know, and understand exactly what the DEA is doing, I also agree, that what MMJ users think and want, and what reality actually is are 2 very different things.



Well, I do know. I also know that whenever something like this happens, it's a race for all the early twenty somethings to scramble around and find their token wheel chair bound "victim" so they can go "protest". And let me tell you, those protests, they are real intelligent. It's no coincidence that cannabis use has not been broadly normalized and accepted, look at the advocates. 9 out of 10 are "all aboard" for MMJ, completely dishonest, and compromising very normal values commonly held by many to justify, hide behind, and feel safe with their prop 215 and SB 420/ doctors rec.
It's horse shit.
I am for anyone using cannabis that chooses to for any reason, as long as they are a legal adult. Medical or otherwise. If someone gets some kind of relief for whatever, then good for them. They are not any more entitled to it than the guy that goes home and wants to burn a bowl and relax. They are just "victims" and a false front for people that are basically dishonest to pursue cannabis use acceptance.
If you support making special laws to allow special people only to use cannabis, you are excluding and discriminating against the huge vast majority of people that actually use cannabis, therefore you will never become "mainstream", you are excluding 90% of the folks that you need to support you. If you get away from MMJ for 1 second, realize that full legalization would make cannabis available to everyone at a lower cost, that would be best for MMJ users. What california has done is taking 1 step forward, and 10 back.
Fuck me, I need a joint.

All of this is a direct result of a govt. that's passed dishonest and harmful laws.

See what a fucked up thing a lack of ethics can cause?

 

[PharmaCan]

The White House responded to questions about the raids and said that they still held by the principle that federal agencies should not try to circumvent state laws. They pretty much indicated that that the DEA would be harnessed once a new director is appointed.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110717

PC

 

[Rainman]

Alot of good arguments in this thread on both sides. Also, think about this, we in California voted to ban Gay marriage as a state. Now we have our own AG, several congressmen/women, activists who have taken it to the Supreme court as unconstitutional. Now my point is if our own AG and reps are willing to go against the wishes of the voters on this issue, what is to stop him/her or any of our own reps from doin the same with MMJ? It does seem that there is a double standard for those seeking protection under Prop. 215 though. I see the gov. going one of two ways with it eventually. The simply decrimalize small amounts nationwide or they are going to push for stricter regulation of how the prescriptions are given out. Wile I love Cali's Prop 215 laws I see it as mostly a sham. Visit a disp. and there are no sick people there! Its all stoners and kids who gots this dumb look on their faces like they just got away with something and their mommies didn't catchem. I know there are sick people who are using the law appropriately but I bet half our prop 215 users have no medical conditions that would even warrant a script of any kind. The gov. forced doctors to write them at the risk of losing lic. and everything under the sun, so the only doctors willing to do them are usually not the most stand up crowd. Just my own observations here so please dont get heated over it. I do know that the more we fight as a community the easier it is for our own gov. to ignore us and to write laws we dont agree with. Med user vs recr. user sounds like just what the doctor ordered to keep us where we are.

Quote from the article above : “The president believes that federal resources should not be used to circumvent state laws, and as he continues to appoint senior leadership to fill out the ranks of the federal government, he expects them to review their policies with that in mind," Shapiro said.

 

[WoW maannnn]

Have you heard of Ambien before? Its a prescription sleep aid. Having a hit of weed before bed to relax would be medicinal. Not being able to sleep can lead to other problems such as mental illness, fatigue which could result in physical injury at work, ect.

Ambien can KILL you...

 

[safety-break]

Good News

Good News

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/05/dea-led-by-bush-continues-pot-raids/

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Alot of good arguments in this thread on both sides. Also, think about this, we in California voted to ban Gay marriage as a state. Now we have our own AG, several congressmen/women, activists who have taken it to the Supreme court as unconstitutional. Now my point is if our own AG and reps are willing to go against the wishes of the voters on this issue, what is to stop him/her or any of our own reps from doin the same with MMJ? It does seem that there is a double standard for those seeking protection under Prop. 215 though.

Excellent point, I have also brought this up in previous discussions. Why is it that gay activists think it's perfectly fine to let big gov. trample over the direct will of the people, and in fact are actively wanting that!
While if the same were done to prop 215, those same folks would be all in a tussy!
Even more ironic, early on there were many many gay activists behind 215.
Just goes to show, if you are willing to compromise your political beliefs for personal gain, then you are being a hypocrite, and the battle you are fighting is not worth winning. CAn't have it both ways. This is what happens if you have a very narrow perspective, or don't care what happens to anyone else so long as you get your way. The ends do not justify the means here. It is flat out wrong in my book.
If you were in a park, with your kids, saw some other kids getting the living shit beat out of them, would you just turn away and say, "aw, at least they aren't beating my kids!"
I doubt it,
what we are talking about here isn't much different philosophically speaking. People that use MMJ, are just fine with leaving it at that and don't seem to realize that the people they really need to step up and fight with them, they are in fact pissing on, because in the short term they got what they want. And those that do go down to the fed, oh well I guess, as long as their are 400 or so more places to go then that's just fine I guess.
I am not a part of that kind of community.

How would the U.S be today, if Lincoln freed the slaves, but the civil rights movement never ever happened, and we still had seperate everything for blacks and whites. I don't know if that is a good analogy, hope you get my point though.

Back to what you were saying, and this is really for another thread, but part of the issue with state laws, most all are based on initiative referendum, which in my opinion is a bastardization of the way our gov. is supposed to work. It allows for irresponsible laws, made by the ignorant. Like I said though, that is for another thread obviously, but it is half the reason that prop 215 is worthless. Do you know of any state that through legislative referendum would pass any law in direct violation of federal law? Negative. But because it was the will of the people, it's ok? Anyway.
Thanks to everyone for making a new guy feel at home here. Even if you disagree with me, I will fight for your right to express that equally.
Even though you are wrong! LOL

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/05/dea-led-by-bush-continues-pot-raids/

LMAO

We'll see huh?
I wouldn't hold your hit too long on that.

 

[PharmaCan]

LMAO

We'll see huh?
I wouldn't hold your hit too long on that.

Laugh all you want, the important thing here is that the MMJ issue is finally getting some unbiased coverage in the mainstream media. That alone is a really big turning point in the battle.

PC

 

[AndreNicky]

Gotta give ya some K+ IE2KS, at first i thought u were just a troll but u got some very insightful comments! keep um comin brotha

 

[johnyhash]

we need more kop busters.... lots more. God damn legalized gang.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

Excellent point, I have also brought this up in previous discussions. Why is it that gay activists think it's perfectly fine to let big gov. trample over the direct will of the people, and in fact are actively wanting that!
While if the same were done to prop 215, those same folks would be all in a tussy!
Even more ironic, early on there were many many gay activists behind 215.

There is a difference between the voters granting additional rights to a group of people (access to cannabis for people who are ill) and the voters taking away rights from a specific group of people who are not infringing upon the rights of others. BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE THERE!!! Also the Margins of Prop 215 vs prop 8 in favor were vastly different.

They have been doing the same to prop 215 actually. Back when it was first passed the first person to challenge its validity was Dan Lungren who was the state attorney general. Infact he was the most vocal opponent of prop 215. Do you even remember what this thread is about??? Its about the feds busting mmj dispersaries, seems like a direct assault on prop 215 and the voters will...

And yeah there are/were many gay people behind passing prop 215, so what? Do you know how many gays and lesbians were directly affected by the AIDS epidemic? Lots everyone knew someone and lost them. The fact that Reagan and his administration didn't give a fuck about AIDS patients is what sparked of the mmj movement a long long time ago. So please dont confuse two different issues, totally different no need to bring in a linebacker to pitch for an mlb team...

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Ambien can KILL you...

And make you compulsively buy useless crap on the internet while you "think" you are sleeping!

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Laugh all you want, the important thing here is that the MMJ issue is finally getting some unbiased coverage in the mainstream media. That alone is a really big turning point in the battle.

PC

That is true, kind of all of the sudden it's everywhere.

 

[OGorganic]

I just came accross this link.

http://hightimes.com/legal/ht_admin/5054

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Gotta give ya some K+ IE2KS, at first i thought u were just a troll but u got some very insightful comments! keep um comin brotha

Hey thanks bro for understanding, yeah I really am not a troll for sure. I am sincere. I think we all believe in the same thing, I just have a different angle that I want to share. I am passionate about cannabis, that's all. :smile:
What is K+? THat rep? Weird that you can't see who reps you here. Oh well. Thanks for that K+.
And hey, if I do ever offend anyone, please that is not my intent. I am just trying to share ideas, give some and take some. Nothing more. You WILL KNOW if I am trying to offend you personally!

 

[Capo dei Capi]

shit.....