K
KMK0420
Someones gotta know! Haha.
Jerry Garcia
Member
I did not notice dimension's on the size of this box. If You give that to me I will be able to tell you how many plants can fit in there, and how many seeds to start with.
Also I saw early on you were planing to get 4 packs of seeds from Nirvana. Why 40 seeds?Start with maybe 2 strains in packs of ten or total of 20 seeds. I find Nirvana prices high so you may want to try this seed bank.
http://www.hempdepot.ca/seeds/canadian/index.html
Very recommended, I love the Joey Weed Strains.
JG
Also I saw early on you were planing to get 4 packs of seeds from Nirvana. Why 40 seeds?Start with maybe 2 strains in packs of ten or total of 20 seeds. I find Nirvana prices high so you may want to try this seed bank.
http://www.hempdepot.ca/seeds/canadian/index.html
Very recommended, I love the Joey Weed Strains.
JG
Jerry Garcia
Member
Forgot to answer your last question.
I go from a starter cup to 2 gallon buckets, then to 5 gallon buckets and some times then to 36 or 40 quart Rubbermaid tubs, depending on the style of grow I am doing. I have experimented around with many different styles and find a long veg (6 weeks) while performing LST, then I will transplant to 5 gallon buckets for flower. I can fit 9 females in a 4'x4' space and that has produced over 2lb of prim bud for me.
I recommend this style for your first grow because you can either take clones or even start fewer seeds and veg for up to how ever long your flower cycle is. That way you can grow some short monsters like I have going in my album. You only need a small nursery box using fluorescent shop lights while your first crop flowers. This produces a quicker turn around also.
JG
I go from a starter cup to 2 gallon buckets, then to 5 gallon buckets and some times then to 36 or 40 quart Rubbermaid tubs, depending on the style of grow I am doing. I have experimented around with many different styles and find a long veg (6 weeks) while performing LST, then I will transplant to 5 gallon buckets for flower. I can fit 9 females in a 4'x4' space and that has produced over 2lb of prim bud for me.
I recommend this style for your first grow because you can either take clones or even start fewer seeds and veg for up to how ever long your flower cycle is. That way you can grow some short monsters like I have going in my album. You only need a small nursery box using fluorescent shop lights while your first crop flowers. This produces a quicker turn around also.
JG
Jerry Garcia
Member
Thanks.
For the style of grow I mentioned above.
I would start 9 to 10 seeds, Veg until sex is Known from the pre-flowers, or place the plants in the flower cycle and check after a few days while still in 2 gallon buckets. Then sex and Transplant to 5 gallon buckets. This saves wasting soil on the males. With seeds from a seed bank I find the female / male ratio is greater than 50/50
After sexing you should end up with around 6 females and that is about max for that size of space.
JG
For the style of grow I mentioned above.
I would start 9 to 10 seeds, Veg until sex is Known from the pre-flowers, or place the plants in the flower cycle and check after a few days while still in 2 gallon buckets. Then sex and Transplant to 5 gallon buckets. This saves wasting soil on the males. With seeds from a seed bank I find the female / male ratio is greater than 50/50
After sexing you should end up with around 6 females and that is about max for that size of space.
JG
Hi,
Not to be a bit cranky, but--
There is so much misinformation being discussed on this forum, it's mind boggling! And unfortunately, much of it becomes enshrined as gospel!
Please don't waste time with 5-gallon pots.
If you think you can harvest 4 to 6 ounces from one plant, then maybe a five-gallon container makes sense. In your case, you'll be very lucky to get one ounce. With eight plants, that would be a half-pound--a very respectable harvest from one 400 watt light. For a one-ounce plant, a one-gallon pot is more than adequate.
As for starting with a smaller pot--why bother? What are the reasons to start with a smaller pot?
1. You need to start a lot of plants in a small area. This is a good reason. Is it true for you?
2. You need to get the soil temperature up. This is important, because once your plant is a couple of inches tall, soil temperature is a big factor in growth rate. You want your soil to be 75 degreesor more if you want truly fast growth. You can get warm soil in a smaller pot more easily than in a big one. But it's easy to warm the top 2 inches of a one gallon pot--the light itself will do it.
So start in the one-gallon pot, and finish in the one-gallon pot--keep it simple.
As for soil, just buy some, and get it over with. A great choice for a first time is Fox Farm's Light Warrior. It has great drainage, because of the high perlite content, is peat-based, sterile(no bugs), consistent from bag to bag, and capable of supporting a plant from germination to harvest.
For the light, simply buy a new or used 400 watt hps--don't bother with a metal halide bulb, you truly will not see any benefit, no matter what anybody says. The HPS gives enough blue light for vigorous growth, and unless your planning to veg from clones for 3 or more weeks, you won't need metal halide. And, the HPS is the best choice for flowering.
Don't bother to vent the hood. Use a good 4 (or 6) inch in line duct fan (they're quieter than the one you asked about), and suck the air (through the filter) from as close to the ceiling of your tent as possible. Vortex, Elicent, Fantech, CanFan, etc.
There is very little advantage to air-cooling lights in most situations, but here on this forum, it is the accepted norm. While there are installations where air-cooling is essential, I have seen many more where the air-cooling didn't help at all--in fact, it reduced the yield. If you can supply intake air that is 75 degrees or less, one 400-watt light in that tent is not going to overheat it. The ballast will be outside the tent, too, so not much heat is being generated inside the tent. That heat will collect at the highest point in the tent, so that's where you should exhaust.
You need to grow plants that are mostly Indica, so that plant height is not an issue. If you want to grow Sativa, you will have to use SCROG, or rely on Bushmaster, or Phosphoload (both of which contain Paclobutazol, a plant growth regulator). One of the currently popular 100% Indicas would be the best choice--buy clones if you possibly can. Hash Plant, Northern Lights, one of the Kush varieties, etc.
Good luck, and remember what sailboat racers say--KISS (keep it simple, stupid)!
Not to be a bit cranky, but--
There is so much misinformation being discussed on this forum, it's mind boggling! And unfortunately, much of it becomes enshrined as gospel!
Please don't waste time with 5-gallon pots.
If you think you can harvest 4 to 6 ounces from one plant, then maybe a five-gallon container makes sense. In your case, you'll be very lucky to get one ounce. With eight plants, that would be a half-pound--a very respectable harvest from one 400 watt light. For a one-ounce plant, a one-gallon pot is more than adequate.
As for starting with a smaller pot--why bother? What are the reasons to start with a smaller pot?
1. You need to start a lot of plants in a small area. This is a good reason. Is it true for you?
2. You need to get the soil temperature up. This is important, because once your plant is a couple of inches tall, soil temperature is a big factor in growth rate. You want your soil to be 75 degreesor more if you want truly fast growth. You can get warm soil in a smaller pot more easily than in a big one. But it's easy to warm the top 2 inches of a one gallon pot--the light itself will do it.
So start in the one-gallon pot, and finish in the one-gallon pot--keep it simple.
As for soil, just buy some, and get it over with. A great choice for a first time is Fox Farm's Light Warrior. It has great drainage, because of the high perlite content, is peat-based, sterile(no bugs), consistent from bag to bag, and capable of supporting a plant from germination to harvest.
For the light, simply buy a new or used 400 watt hps--don't bother with a metal halide bulb, you truly will not see any benefit, no matter what anybody says. The HPS gives enough blue light for vigorous growth, and unless your planning to veg from clones for 3 or more weeks, you won't need metal halide. And, the HPS is the best choice for flowering.
Don't bother to vent the hood. Use a good 4 (or 6) inch in line duct fan (they're quieter than the one you asked about), and suck the air (through the filter) from as close to the ceiling of your tent as possible. Vortex, Elicent, Fantech, CanFan, etc.
There is very little advantage to air-cooling lights in most situations, but here on this forum, it is the accepted norm. While there are installations where air-cooling is essential, I have seen many more where the air-cooling didn't help at all--in fact, it reduced the yield. If you can supply intake air that is 75 degrees or less, one 400-watt light in that tent is not going to overheat it. The ballast will be outside the tent, too, so not much heat is being generated inside the tent. That heat will collect at the highest point in the tent, so that's where you should exhaust.
You need to grow plants that are mostly Indica, so that plant height is not an issue. If you want to grow Sativa, you will have to use SCROG, or rely on Bushmaster, or Phosphoload (both of which contain Paclobutazol, a plant growth regulator). One of the currently popular 100% Indicas would be the best choice--buy clones if you possibly can. Hash Plant, Northern Lights, one of the Kush varieties, etc.
Good luck, and remember what sailboat racers say--KISS (keep it simple, stupid)!
Jerry Garcia
Member
If I am giving missinformation then explain this grow log. I have the proof of my advice.
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/144035-2nd-grow-clones-thc-bomb-seeds.html
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/144035-2nd-grow-clones-thc-bomb-seeds.html
Jerry Garcia
Member
Also here is a thread about the need to transplant from small pots to larger.
This thead is by the most respected breeder on that web site.
http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gr...ous-canopy-its-all-about-efficiency-baby.html
This thead is by the most respected breeder on that web site.
http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gr...ous-canopy-its-all-about-efficiency-baby.html
BeeBee, I think it's a bit much to be prescribing absolutes on questions such as whether or not to us MH, or if you should air cool your hood or not. Every grow has different needs.
Yes, K.I.S.S (keep it simple, stoner) is ALWAYS a good rule of thumb, that I can agree with.
Yes, K.I.S.S (keep it simple, stoner) is ALWAYS a good rule of thumb, that I can agree with.
K
KMK0420
Thanks for the info you two, but to avoid a conflict here.. I don't think beebee meant to put down your knowledge level I think what they meant was some of the stuff I've been told isn't exactly necessary.. Ie pot size, air cooling the bulb, etc. It depends on the time of the year but winters here get to be -5 with windchill.. Nothing insane but the temps in the room where I'll be growing hover from 60-70.
Another few questions. Should I use a smaller seperate setup to grow sprouts in? What's this talk about cloning, and how would that apply to my setup? I'm on the. Edge with cloning, as I would hate to lose a plant bc I screw up ya know. Should I just start all plants under the same light, sex, kill males then flower? What's the best way to do this?
Also, how many plants should I start off to get at least 4 females? I know you can't predict exactly.. But ballpark?
Another few questions. Should I use a smaller seperate setup to grow sprouts in? What's this talk about cloning, and how would that apply to my setup? I'm on the. Edge with cloning, as I would hate to lose a plant bc I screw up ya know. Should I just start all plants under the same light, sex, kill males then flower? What's the best way to do this?
Also, how many plants should I start off to get at least 4 females? I know you can't predict exactly.. But ballpark?
K
KMK0420
I plan on using the MH conversion bulb until flowering, it comes with the package I'm getting. I may air cool regardless bc what's the point of making an exhaust system, then avoiding the hood/cooling it on purpose? I can kill 2 birds with one stone. My biggest questions are lying with where to sprout, and under what kind of lighting? Should I just make a sep rubbermaid setup with cfl's until I can pop them in the bigger pots n put under theMH?
B.Grant
Member
Okay, look man, I'm going to throw it at you 'cause you're gettin' a ton of opinions and rightfully so. I'm not sure exactly where you're headed here, but in the end if you want 4 females the easiest way possible. Germinate 20 seeds, 15 pop, plant in soil, pick one light and set on/off 18/6, feed lightly 2 weeks later with a reputable veg. formula, at 8-10 inches turn lights back to 12/12 and feed lightly with a bloom formula, when males show kill males, keep females (you will have at least 4 - I don't know for sure, I'm betting...), harvest when 70-75% of hairs turn brown, let dry until stems snap, smoke and enjoy! I'm thinking simple people, so do not jump in here and start busting my balls!
This is the easiest way I can think of to straight up grow some smoke by just telling someone. But the best method is going to be when you start throwing stuff together and deciding what works for you and what doesn't. For example, venting (exhausting) up top toward the light is usually a good idea because heat rises and this method is tried and true, sensible advice. Whereas the advice on to cool or not to cool your light is really a moot point because it applies only to your particular climate and setup. It's basically that whole apples and oranges argument, ya see?
As for cloning, it's really not that hard. And the advantage is, once you find a solid female (you sexed her earlier when you turned the lights back and got rid of all the males) you can take a bunch of clones off of her and experiment and figure out what cloning method works best for you. I've had great success with cutting clones, dipping them in root powder, shoving them down in some perlite, about a 1/4" - 1/2" water in bottom w/ a drop of superthrive at the base of each clone - rooted in about 9-10 days. I think the method was off of one of BudGreenGenes threads, anyway do a search and it should be pretty easy to find.
Well, I've gone on long enough, maybe it's time to bump the "If you're stoned thread." Anyhow, whatever you do..don't over think it, ask whatever you need we'll do our best to help, and don't ever give up...
Oh, and by all means, enjoy...
Jerry Garcia
Member
B. Grant, I am not going to bust your balls on that because it is good advice. Don't know about the 20 seed part though. I would personally only germinate 7 seeds for 4 females. This is my preference because I cannot kill a seedling, that seedling might have been the gem of the crop and you never knew it.
As for cloning I take 2 clones from each plant before flower, label what plant they came from, then after sexing toss the males. I do this so when the plants are harvested and you have sampled each plant then you have determined which plant you like best you can then use that clone as a mother and always have that plant in your inventory indefinitely.
Also sorry KMKO420 for going off on BeeBee but that just hit a nerve this morning.
JG
As for cloning I take 2 clones from each plant before flower, label what plant they came from, then after sexing toss the males. I do this so when the plants are harvested and you have sampled each plant then you have determined which plant you like best you can then use that clone as a mother and always have that plant in your inventory indefinitely.
Also sorry KMKO420 for going off on BeeBee but that just hit a nerve this morning.
JG
but back on topic........
air cooled or not, the four inputs you need to worry about for your plants are Light, temperature, humidity, and food.
you got food covered by using a grow mix with nutes already.
you need 50 watts/square foot of light--I know you can do that math
as far as air cooling or not, it really does not matter---you do what you have to do to get the air temps when lights are on between 75-85 degrees, when dark you need them to drop 10-15 degrees.......
humidity just keep it as close to 50% as possible if you are in a humid place get a de-humidifier if you live in the desert get a humidifier.
Pretty simple?
also whatever amount you think you are going to harvest the first time, take the number and cut it in half.
peace
jip
air cooled or not, the four inputs you need to worry about for your plants are Light, temperature, humidity, and food.
you got food covered by using a grow mix with nutes already.
you need 50 watts/square foot of light--I know you can do that math
as far as air cooling or not, it really does not matter---you do what you have to do to get the air temps when lights are on between 75-85 degrees, when dark you need them to drop 10-15 degrees.......
humidity just keep it as close to 50% as possible if you are in a humid place get a de-humidifier if you live in the desert get a humidifier.
Pretty simple?
also whatever amount you think you are going to harvest the first time, take the number and cut it in half.
peace
jip
K
KMK0420
i really appreciate everyone coming in my thread and giving me advice, tips, ideas, etc. any little bit helps, as this has to literally be a secret..to everyone..except myself.
i'm pretty much good to go, i think. the next part:
buying the equipment!
the biggest parts of my investment will be the HPS light. together, i'm looking at $250 from HTG for the HPS. $150 for homebox, so $400 right there...no to mention blowers, fans, venting, carbon filter, etc.
i'm looking at about $1k for the entire setup. i dont plan on growing until another month or two at the minimum, and i'm sure i'll have questions along the line. will update this thread if i got anything else - thanks again guys!
i'm pretty much good to go, i think. the next part:
buying the equipment!
the biggest parts of my investment will be the HPS light. together, i'm looking at $250 from HTG for the HPS. $150 for homebox, so $400 right there...no to mention blowers, fans, venting, carbon filter, etc.
i'm looking at about $1k for the entire setup. i dont plan on growing until another month or two at the minimum, and i'm sure i'll have questions along the line. will update this thread if i got anything else - thanks again guys!
K
KMK0420
Note: I just realized HTG suppy's retail store is 15 miles from me 
Jerry Garcia
Member
Yup the initial investment is a MoFo!!! But after your first harvest you get that back and then some. I remember my first grow. Scraping for cash for 3 months, eating cup o noodles just so I could get some nutes that week and so on. But since my first harvest, that all changed.
Best of luck and start a grow log when you get set up!!
JG
Best of luck and start a grow log when you get set up!!
JG
B.Grant
Member
Thanks, I appreciate it. I went with 20 in case the germination was a disaster, etc. Regardless, you're getting some good pointers from everyone on the forum. In time, after you get your set up going, you might also consider building your own custom system. You're on your way, enjoy and good luck.
K
KMK0420
i plan on doing so, but i am not going to post it until i can type it all up, upload pictures, etc. oh yeah, what is a secure way to upload pics to free web hosters (tinypic, etc)? proxy? or dont even worry about it?
im getting paid next friday, and if all goes well, my federal return $ tax refund should be also...which is a trip to the HTG out my way, and about 5-10 online orders for other shit, then comes the fun part, buying pots and dirt in person, making it more of a hassle.
i believe, when executed properly and with discretion, you can easily build a grow cab and grow & harvest kind bud, with nobody having any idea (unless they're INSIDE your grow room asking questions about things they shouldnt be asking questions about) the only thing is, i dont live alone, i live in a normal 3 story home, with attic to myself and downstairs to other ppl i live with. i have to discreetly bring in the supplies, not to mention get dirt and other chemicals past their watchful eyes.. anyway, at the sight of growing pot (by the room mates) i could bet my left nut they would call the cops, not even realizing their own ass could be going to jail also if they do that, for failure to report a crime or some shit like that or aiding in some way a felony....but anyway, i'm thinking if i can bungee the fan in the homebox, i shouldnt have to worry about vibration as much as noise. how loud does the ducting get, at best bet, with some type of home made muffler?
im getting paid next friday, and if all goes well, my federal return $ tax refund should be also...which is a trip to the HTG out my way, and about 5-10 online orders for other shit, then comes the fun part, buying pots and dirt in person, making it more of a hassle.
i believe, when executed properly and with discretion, you can easily build a grow cab and grow & harvest kind bud, with nobody having any idea (unless they're INSIDE your grow room asking questions about things they shouldnt be asking questions about) the only thing is, i dont live alone, i live in a normal 3 story home, with attic to myself and downstairs to other ppl i live with. i have to discreetly bring in the supplies, not to mention get dirt and other chemicals past their watchful eyes.. anyway, at the sight of growing pot (by the room mates) i could bet my left nut they would call the cops, not even realizing their own ass could be going to jail also if they do that, for failure to report a crime or some shit like that or aiding in some way a felony....but anyway, i'm thinking if i can bungee the fan in the homebox, i shouldnt have to worry about vibration as much as noise. how loud does the ducting get, at best bet, with some type of home made muffler?
