DEA is still at it-- 5 Raids in LA today--

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Then why are u so ignorant?

IE2ks please explain how a law that protects my right to grow/smoke marijuana is worhtless? i really wanna know

It's worthless for several reasons. I will keep it simple for you though. Call up the DEA and tell them you have a small indoor grow, and you want to show them what a "legit LEGAL grow" looks like. Then get back to me.
I saw pictures of the DEA raiding a home grow, 4x4 tent, small number of plants, one of the agents had a shirt, it said, "You Grow, We Show, No Grow Is Too Small".

Yet another reason it's worthless, what happens if local LEO make you prove it in court, and your "doctor", flakes and does not testify on your behalf, or worse, you were ignorant, and got a rec from a shit ass doctor that is in it for the cha ching, and tells you to f- off, it happens.
But seriously get ahold of the nearest DEA offices, and invite them out like I said, I believe you will get my point about prop 215 being worthless.

 

[AndreNicky]

Why would i call the dea to come check out my grow tent? lol Just because "ONE" smal time grower was raided by the dea doesn't mean it happens regulary, if ever(that story doesnt sound legit, maybe back it up with a news article?). If you can't prove u have a medical condition maybe u shouldn't have a Rec, maybe thats too crazy of an idea for you tho

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Again, let me state, I love cannabis.
If some folks get medical benefit great!
I know, that current MMJ laws, do not provide for the most economical means to obtain cannabis for patients, and they discriminate against the vast majority of cannabis users. All the while these laws provide an easy chance for the DEA to confiscate assets, moneys, property, etc...all the while destroying lives of folks whom otherwise would not have ever been on their radar likely. I know it hypothetical and there is no way to know that but for the sake of argument many would not have been on the radar because they would not have been selling cannabis out of a store front and operating businesses in good faith. I am not mad at anyone here, just speaking from my heart, please don't misunderstand! I truly believe most have been duped on this issue. Not saying anyone is stupid, just intentionally mis-lead and mis informed. JMHO. Or they refuse to acknowledge it, more need to speak out on this.

 

[Blue Dot]

IE2ks please explain how a law that protects my right to grow/smoke marijuana is worhtless? i really wanna know

Because you could live in a county like san diego and the board of supes could say they don't agree with the law and have the DA go along with it until it works it's way thru the courts because of all the cases the board of supes keeps filing to finally get to the point where they have had to file with the US supreme court, thus still delaying any useful implementation of 215 in said county.

Is this what you mean by "please explain"!

 

[AndreNicky]

You'll still win the case once it goes to the CA supreme court if your legit, whats happening in san diego is lame but your still protected under the law. Its your constitutional right, no matter what those nazi fucks say

 

[Greyskull]

seems like we have 2 different views of the same thing

i am trying to make the best of what is available and you are saying its not enough so its worthless

I believe you will get my point about prop 215 being worthless.

I just smoked a bowl for you man. really. I get you know.

I am not misled or niave I am optomistic and trying to protect what little we have here (though it is not enough and we still must fight for more).
IF WE DON'T WORK WITH WHAT WE HAVE WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE GREATER THINGS

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

Why would i call the dea to come check out my grow tent? lol Just because "ONE" smal time grower was raided by the dea doesn't mean it happens regulary, if ever(that story doesnt sound legit, maybe back it up with a news article?). If you can't prove u have a medical condition maybe u shouldn't have a Rec, maybe thats too crazy of an idea for you tho

Doesn't matter if "YOU" can prove it, the doctor needs to back you up when push comes to shove. Many local LEO will MAKE YOU go through the system to prove it. That in itself is wrong. But that's what you get I guess.
I believe as far as prop 215 is concerned, it states...
"ANY CONDITION FOR WHICH IT PROVIDES RELIEF".
Following the law, ANYONE could qualify for any reason. They were written that way intentionally, even Kubby admits this that they were intentionally vague, and has since stated the legislation was not well written.
As for the grower.

Here is a link to the thread I read about it in,

http://boards.cannabis.com/medical-...you-grow-we-show-no-garden-too-small-dea.html

the link to the actual article is broken, I assure I didn't pull that out of my ass. Yes I realize that it's not common, but no matter how "uncommon" that is, if it happens to you I bet you won't just say "aw that hardly ever happens," the fact that they could do it to anyone, means that they can do it to you. This tramples on your pursuit of happiness in life. We are on the same team, just heading opposite directions I fear. Just tell the rest of the MMJ advocates to stop running before they go off he cliff!

 

[Greyskull]

to move a mountain one must first move a stone.....

its a process. slow. we know what we want. they know what we want.
so we do a little dance and they do a little dance. and repeat. and again...

it'd be great if we could use a stick or truckload of dynomite (spelling on purpose) and blow the mountain outta the way for our road but it ain't like that we have shovels pick axes and pails so lets pray for the messiah to bring us dynomite (again, spelling on purpose) and plan for our big bang all the while moving the dirt we have to move.

any of these analogies make any sense?

 

[Blue Dot]

You'll still win the case once it goes to the CA supreme court if your legit...

What case?
What do you think is going on in san diego? The same thing as these LA raids except it's the locals who come in, smash and grab and don't charge you. If you want your stuff back you gotta file but you're on the known list by then. Start back up and I'm sure some flatfoot will just happen to be walking by your pad on his way home and "smell" evidence of a "new" grow.

The point is it's been 13 years (since the law was enacted in 1996) and the county still hasn't worked it's way thru the courts.

Do you know how many people have died in those 13 years!

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

I just smoked a bowl for you man. really. I get you know.

I am not misled or niave I am optomistic and trying to protect what little we have here (though it is not enough and we still must fight for more).
IF WE DON'T WORK WITH WHAT WE HAVE WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE GREATER THINGS

That's just it. What are you protecting? Are you, (when I say you, I mean MMJ advocates in general and those directly involved in MMJ), just pooling time, energy, resources, and effort into a false cause? I dunno, it's what I think, but I realize no one wants to hear that.
How much better could it be for the DEA, get folks to operate out in the open, let them make some dough, acquire assests, build false confidence in the people supporting the cause, then come in a crush them again and again and again, while taking all their resources and putting people away, and demoralizing a political movement. It's mental warfare. They are winning.

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

You'll still win the case once it goes to the CA supreme court if your legit, whats happening in san diego is lame but your still protected under the law. Its your constitutional right, no matter what those nazi fucks say

You have no protection under federal law. Not to mention the local law issues. Paper Tiger folks, that's all it is.

 

[Blue Dot]

That's just it. What are you protecting? Are you, (when I say you, I mean MMJ advocates in general and those directly involved in MMJ), just pooling time, energy, resources, and effort into a false cause? I dunno, it's what I think, but I realize no one wants to hear that.
How much better could it be for the DEA, get folks to operate out in the open, let them make some dough, acquire assests, build false confidence in the people supporting the cause, then come in a crush them again and again and again, while taking all their resources and putting people away, and demoralizing a political movement. It's mental warfare. They are winning.

You're right. The ONLY way anything positive can come about is for obama to do something about it (and I fear he won't, that's a whole nother thread).

IF obama doesn't do anything CA will continue to be beaten by fed dea and just expect year after year of the same because the state of CA has already lost two supreme court cases.

It's not like the feds are going anywhere.

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

to move a mountain one must first move a stone.....

Not true!
That fuck in N.Korea moved a mountain with one shot remember a few years ago! LOL

Well I gotta get on guys, nice lively chat though! I appreciate the fact that there can be a range of views and that everyone is ok enough to handle them! Nice community here!

 

[Greyskull]

That's just it. What are you protecting? Are you, (when I say you, I mean MMJ advocates in general and those directly involved in MMJ), just pooling time, energy, resources, and effort into a false cause? I dunno, it's what I think, but I realize no one wants to hear that.
How much better could it be for the DEA, get folks to operate out in the open, let them make some dough, acquire assests, build false confidence in the people supporting the cause, then come in a crush them again and again and again, while taking all their resources and putting people away, and demoralizing a political movement. It's mental warfare. They are winning.

by operating, patronizing, or donating to a dispensary you are flexing your rights to do so.... ever heard "use it or lose it"?. Maybe not the best anaolgy but dude I smoked like 5 bowls for me before I got that one for you so give me some grammatical leeway please.

laws and legislation is so exacting and finite... so why not play the game that way when filing your paperwork - creativity and a good business lawyer will do wonders so you can hide out in the open.

it is mental warfare. its especially painful when we fucking growers are bitching at each other (I am talking about me here so don't get all your panties in a bunch) about stupid shit like this when we could be planning something to one up them by piggybacking it off an already established platform. but we;re stoners.....

not like lawyers (LIARS) are any better of course. we're all fucked....

 

[Greyskull]

Not true!
That fuck in N.Korea moved a mountain with one shot remember a few years ago! LOL

Well I gotta get on guys, nice lively chat though! I appreciate the fact that there can be a range of views and that everyone is ok enough to handle them! Nice community here!

kim jong ill or whatever his name is i crack up when i thnk about him in team america world police....

 

[AndreNicky]

Thanks for the link IE2ks, scary stuff. By the way I'm not too sure on the whole court situation because i've never been bust(knock on wood) but I'm fairly certain you can win even if your doctor is a prick. It especially helps if somone with your medical condition has already been tryed and found innocent

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

You're right. The ONLY way anything positive can come about is for obama to do something about it (and I fear he won't, that's a whole nother thread).

IF obama doesn't do anything CA will continue to be beaten by fed dea and just expect year after year of the same because the state of CA has already lost two supreme court cases.

It's not like the feds are going anywhere.

Bingo, the feds aren't going anywhere, they are content with the status quo and have no desire to end the raids, $$$$$$.
As for Obama, go ahead and start shitting in your other hand while you wait and "Hope, for Change". It ain't gonna happen, at least not due to anything he will do or say. But eh, maybe I am wrong, I "Hope" so.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

How much better could it be for the DEA, get folks to operate out in the open, let them make some dough, acquire assests, build false confidence in the people supporting the cause, then come in a crush them again and again and again, while taking all their resources and putting people away, and demoralizing a political movement. It's mental warfare. They are winning.

How could it be better (for the pigs)... legalize mmj and transfer extra DEA agents that would otherwise loose their jobs to the ATF (which would probably have to REGULATE cannabis if legalized).

They are far from winning. There are more dispensaries now then there ever were, CNBC did a special which shows how much money is underground because of prohibitionist policy. Plus if you look back to 1932... Cannabis is actually having it easier than alcohol did back then. Prohibition will be over soon... More and more politicians are in favor of getting potheads out of jail and getting tax dollars from growers and patients instead.

Thomas Jefferson once said,"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants". We are the patriots and the cops are the tyrants. Eventually the tyrants will see their selfish ways. It really is about the jobs/funding for the pigs. Give the tree some more nutes and watch it will flourish. The dispensaries that are getting messed with now and raided are some of the patriots that have to sacrifice.

If you are a med patient worrying about the DEA kicking in your door and taking your 4X4 grow area... keep less than 100 plants (no federal mandatory minimums) and keep your mouth shut. Only reason DEA would go after a small time thing like that is bad security and it appeared like it was a much bigger garden than it was.

Also several times h&s 11362.5 has saved my ass from local/state cops. Thats half the battle right there. Follow the state attorney generals guidelines and don't advertise. Yeah I know westcoastleaf and treating yourself are good publications, but if you take your collective/coop public and stop being discrete, thats when you ask for problems. I am pretty sure the DEA doesn't have to try very hard to bust dispensaries with them openly publishing their location.

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

How could it be better (for the pigs)... legalize mmj and transfer extra DEA agents that would otherwise loose their jobs to the ATF (which would probably have to REGULATE cannabis if legalized).

Could not agree more, however it's easier for them to just do nothing different, maintain what they are doing. They already know that they will have job security for some time to come, they continue to acquire wealth, sustain or increase employment, all the while, I truly believe that they actually appreciate the fact there is more work than they can actually even handle, and they can really just pick and choose at will or when it's politically convenient locally in some cases. They have it made, a never ending demand for their work, and unlimited income potential.
Problem is the lives that are destroyed between here and there. As far as the powers that be are concerned, let the debate rage on for MMJ, for as long as people are pre-occupied with attacking this political issue on those grounds, they will be locked in a never ending battle. While the government continues to do as it has.
I really believe that MMJ is much more of a distraction/sidetrack issue and is being used as a diversionary type of tactic. The more that get locked into that micro issue with regards to the larger cannabis use debate the better for them. Currently their is a petition to reschedule cannabis, it has been out there for years. The previous one was something stupid like 20 or 30 years before a decision, this one is on it's way to that point.
Doing anything before cannabis is removed from the schedule of narcotics is lunacy, like putting the cart before the horse.

Just a hypothetical here, but what if they did reschedule cannabis, decided it had medical value, moved it to a sched 2, along side cocaine.
Do you really think for one minute, that would change anything at all. Or would the DEA still continue to do the same thing. I think you know what would happen if you are honest. How does the DEA feel about cocaine eh? Think about it. Lots of folks would look at that as a step in the right direction though.
It must be removed, first.

Yes though, I can forsee a future with regulation as their is with alcohol and tobacco. But they would have to figure out a new clever anacronym.
A WTF?
Alcohol

Weed
Tobacco
Firearms

AWTF
FACT?
Firearms
Alcohol
Cannabis
Tobacco
Yup, there we go half way done!@

F A C T
I L A O
R C N B
E O N A
A H A C
R O B C
M L I O
S S

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I have taken care of and stood next to at rallies/protests are paraplegics, quadraplegics... you know, standard run of the mill college partying pot heads like you see on tv.

yeah heres some more people that "just want to get high..."