Mabye you Hydro Experts can Help me.

[Arlen]

How long has this problem been going on?
Just noticed it today.

Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents)
No 8x11 room

What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...)
Bio-Buckets 12 buckets 3ea 1 kw bulbs in a 8x11 room

What STRAIN are you growing?
Serious AK-47


What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)
Clone

What is the age of your plants?
Vegged 3 weeks, 2 weeks or so into flower

How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..)
Since Clone

How tall are the plants?
2.5ft Some smaller

What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Flower

What Technique are you using?
Bush

What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)
Medium size lava rock

What is the Water temperature?
Never higher than 66f (chilled)

What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy?
white , no slime

What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless)
Canna-Aqua

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
Adding untill about 850 on the meter/ 168PPM tapwater

How often are you feeding? (If using soiless)
Recirculation Bio-bucket 24/7

How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless)
When Meter demands it

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
1 week agao

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
Bloom part A in tank, circulate, Bloom Part B etc.

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?
right now my PPM is 850 at 2 weeks

What is the pH of the "Tank"?
5.6-5.8

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?
yes

When was your last watering?
Recirculation 24/7

What is your water temps?
Never exceeds 66 Chilled

When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)
1 weekd ago

How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients?
After harvest

What size bulb are you using?
3ea 1K vertical

What is the distance to the canopy?
36/48 inches

What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?
50%

What is the canopy temperature?
84f

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
Day 84 Night 65-70
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Plenty

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Sealed room CO2 injected, ventilates on lights off

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
No, across

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
168PPm hard?/soft?

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Tap

Are you using water from a water softener?
No

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched
NO

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
NO

Are plant's infected with pest's
No

Everything was beautifull, nice white roots, FAST growth. CO2 injected room, 1450 ppm .Ventilated at night 20 mins every 120 minutes.
I was working in the garden, bumped one of the plants and it keeled over. Roots where white, plant was showing yellowing edges in places, new growth yellowish.Root did look a bit flabby on that plant (1 plant of 12).
I removed the bucket from the system, and saw that the roots close to the surface of the Lava-rock,just under the water at the stem where rotted, hence the toppling effect upon pressure .
I run bio-buckets to Big-tokes specs.3/4 inch supplies, 1.5 inch returns from the bucket.1800 GPH pump and 14 inch waterfall, chiller return waterfall and 3 walmart air pumps. 12 buckets.Timed return rate per bucket at 17+ changes per hour.
I use medium size Black Lava Rock.
Flowering under 3ea 1K bulbs vertically lit.
Is there a possibility that the lava rock is too small? it seems the roots are too thick in the pots,choking off the water-flow in the 8" netpots.Note that all the roots of all the plants are white in the buckets,except the affected plants roots where a bit flabby.
I checked the other plants and they don't seem loose in the netpots like the bad one did.
I used homade covers around the netpot while the clones were small, and removed them when the canopy started shading.
I never saw a specification on what size lava to use hence the medium size, defined by me to be about 3/4 inch rocks.
When I placed the clones in the buckets, I inserted just enough stem to cover the roots, and piled rocks around to hold the plant upright.Was this a mistake? Should the roots have just been dangled in the water?Is the lava-rock too small?
I'm kind stumped here and at my wits end. Help?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/userimages/t...?dl=1232161296

 

[SumDumGuy]

How long has this problem been going on?
Just noticed it today.

Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents)
No 8x11 room

What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...)
Bio-Buckets 12 buckets 3ea 1 kw bulbs in a 8x11 room

What STRAIN are you growing?
Serious AK-47


What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)
Clone

What is the age of your plants?
Vegged 3 weeks, 2 weeks or so into flower

How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..)
Since Clone

How tall are the plants?
2.5ft Some smaller

What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Flower

What Technique are you using?
Bush

What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)
Medium size lava rock

What is the Water temperature?
Never higher than 66f (chilled)

What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy?
white , no slime

What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless)
Canna-Aqua

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
Adding untill about 850 on the meter/ 168PPM tapwater

How often are you feeding? (If using soiless)
Recirculation Bio-bucket 24/7

How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless)
When Meter demands it

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
1 week agao

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
Bloom part A in tank, circulate, Bloom Part B etc.

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?
right now my PPM is 850 at 2 weeks

What is the pH of the "Tank"?
5.6-5.8

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?
yes

When was your last watering?
Recirculation 24/7

What is your water temps?
Never exceeds 66 Chilled

When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)
1 weekd ago

How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients?
After harvest

What size bulb are you using?
3ea 1K vertical

What is the distance to the canopy?
36/48 inches

What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?
50%

What is the canopy temperature?
84f

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
Day 84 Night 65-70
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Plenty

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Sealed room CO2 injected, ventilates on lights off

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
No, across

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
168PPm hard?/soft?

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Tap

Are you using water from a water softener?
No

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched
NO

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
NO

Are plant's infected with pest's
No

Everything was beautifull, nice white roots, FAST growth. CO2 injected room, 1450 ppm .Ventilated at night 20 mins every 120 minutes.
I was working in the garden, bumped one of the plants and it keeled over. Roots where white, plant was showing yellowing edges in places, new growth yellowish.Root did look a bit flabby on that plant (1 plant of 12).
I removed the bucket from the system, and saw that the roots close to the surface of the Lava-rock,just under the water at the stem where rotted, hence the toppling effect upon pressure .
I run bio-buckets to Big-tokes specs.3/4 inch supplies, 1.5 inch returns from the bucket.1800 GPH pump and 14 inch waterfall, chiller return waterfall and 3 walmart air pumps. 12 buckets.Timed return rate per bucket at 17+ changes per hour.
I use medium size Black Lava Rock.
Flowering under 3ea 1K bulbs vertically lit.
Is there a possibility that the lava rock is too small? it seems the roots are too thick in the pots,choking off the water-flow in the 8" netpots.Note that all the roots of all the plants are white in the buckets,except the affected plants roots where a bit flabby.
I checked the other plants and they don't seem loose in the netpots like the bad one did.
I used homade covers around the netpot while the clones were small, and removed them when the canopy started shading.
I never saw a specification on what size lava to use hence the medium size, defined by me to be about 3/4 inch rocks.
When I placed the clones in the buckets, I inserted just enough stem to cover the roots, and piled rocks around to hold the plant upright.Was this a mistake? Should the roots have just been dangled in the water?Is the lava-rock too small?
I'm kind stumped here and at my wits end. Help?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/userimages/t...?dl=1232161296

Sorry man - great preface to this thread but pic cannot load. Can you post exact location. I tried searching by your name but no go.

 

[Arlen]

Mabye I can clarify this with words. The pictures I took didnt show the problem anyway.
When I removed the plant that toppled, the end of the stem, in the water, the roots were rotted where they grew into the lava-rock down into the netpots, right under the stem.of course the roots hanging out of the net pot were healthy white untill the roots failed under then stem.The only thing that I can think of is that the lava rocks used were too small, causing the clones roots to branch out tremendously untill they found they're path into the bucket itself, causing the waterflow through the netpot to be restricted as the roots expanded, therby causing a low oxygen condition to the roots in the pots.I'm just looking for someone that has had this problem so I can remedy it if this grow should fail. I noticed other growers here using this technique, have used larger stones it seems in the pots.Hence my question, do you think the lava-rock I used was too small? The average size of the rock I used was about 3/4 of an inch, and f I can verify that this is the problem then I can be worry free with the next grow.Thank you for your time. Oh one more thing, I would have used larger rock but it was difficult to find what I did use.Any suggestions on where to locate the larger lava-rock?

 

[SumDumGuy]

Mabye I can clarify this with words. The pictures I took didnt show the problem anyway.
When I removed the plant that toppled, the end of the stem, in the water, the roots were rotted where they grew into the lava-rock down into the netpots, right under the stem.of course the roots hanging out of the net pot were healthy white untill the roots failed under then stem.The only thing that I can think of is that the lava rocks used were too small, causing the clones roots to branch out tremendously untill they found they're path into the bucket itself, causing the waterflow through the netpot to be restricted as the roots expanded, therby causing a low oxygen condition to the roots in the pots.I'm just looking for someone that has had this problem so I can remedy it if this grow should fail. I noticed other growers here using this technique, have used larger stones it seems in the pots.Hence my question, do you think the lava-rock I used was too small? The average size of the rock I used was about 3/4 of an inch, and f I can verify that this is the problem then I can be worry free with the next grow.Thank you for your time. Oh one more thing, I would have used larger rock but it was difficult to find what I did use.Any suggestions on where to locate the larger lava-rock?

Dog I know people that grow in sand and don't have that problem. I'm sure if you had access to the larger rocks then thats what you would have purchased but you have the 3/4in. which imho is fine. Dude the pics weren't for my viewing pleasure and a link to a pic speaks more than a thousand words. Sorry if I sound grumpy but I'm currently out of weed. So hey...

Btw: This system is top notch and you have other plants to speak for it's quality. You're currently batting 91.63% success to 8.33% failure on a factor on 12 plants. You should be break-dancing. So what I really understood from your previous post was that branches from the bottom grew into the net pot.

If you're dead-set on obtaining larger lava rock - try a landscaping center. If you can't find one google your area or just order online - get ready for shipping fees by the lb.

 

[Pirate]

If the roots are dying right at the top of the medium and base of the plant you might consider light penetration killing the root. Just a theory but one worth looking into.

Try getting some HydroGuard, Flora Shield or something similar to those too clear it up. Try running some Hygrozyme to eat the dead root and encourage new growth there. If the bucket doesn't get water all the way to the base of the plant you may need to hand water the top area for a few days to get this repaired. Make some covers for the buckets. Make the covers out of panda film, foil insulation or use your imagination??

Another thought is root suffocation right at the base of the plant.

Again, these are just theories. You decide if they warrant consideration.

Here are my covers made out of panda film:

 

[Weedhound]

I agree with Pirate. Use a good root product (I like Cannazym) and make sure your drainage and aereation are sufficient.

Good luck.

 

[Gilligan'sIsle]

How full are your buckets?

How full are your buckets?

Arlen:

I ran a similar bio bucket set up with lava rocks, the same size as the ones you are using. I found that when ran the water level to about 1/2 inch into the lava rocks that was enough, and once the roots hit the river I would drop it even below the bottom of the net pot.

When I experienced problems with the bottom of the stem / start of the roots my water level was too high and I got "damping off". I think the lava when overly wet made the perfect environment for the problems.

Unfortunately (fortunately) this was my only experience with a similar problem. If its not damping off I hope you get it sorted.

Hope this helps.

 

[10k]

The size of your lava rocks is insignificant, however Gilligans isle above brings up a good point regarding water level height in these dwc x flood drain hybrid systems. I'm not sure exactly what the big toke bio bucket system involves, but IF it's a hybrid dwc system with a controller bucket that changes out the buckets solution in a flood drain fashion similar to the e&f of a hydro flow bucket system, then the following point is worth looking into...

If your bucket level runs too high, you need to consider the possibility that the lava is floating somewhat during the floods, which can cause root system damage from the abrasive movement involved. Root damage from abrasion of the floating and settling process opens the door to root disease.

?

 

[libby]

If your bucket level runs too high, you need to consider the possibility that the lava is floating somewhat during the floods, which can cause root system damage from the abrasive movement involved. Root damage from abrasion of the floating and settling process opens the door to root disease.
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Wha'ts the answer to that? hold the lava down? mesh/net, 1s 1t worth 1t?

 

[10k]

lower the flood level to just touching the bottom of the net pot or basket...or top fill the stations with more lava rocks to help weigh it down more...in essence lowering the flood height in relation to the contained medium so its not trying to float during floods

 

[wantaknow]

if that is the case ,then raise the netpot to the top side of the lid that will raise the net some if you made the lid /netpot the way the diy shows are you using black buckets,if not then this may be the light issue and you would need to paint the buckets and lids it is hard to help with out pictures