Which Type Of Bat Guano?

[facelift]

I've been reading here and was wondering which type of bat guano you use. I don't recalled anyone mentioning what the NPK ratios were, or if they knew which type of bat it came from. Here's a link to several guano's of different bats and sea birds. Ranging from desert bats to cave bats. It seems that each subspecies produces a different NPK ratio based on diet. I thought it might be helpful. Some of these guano are flowering grade and veggitive grade based on the NPK ratios.

http://www.pristinehydro.com/accessories.html

While researching a subject on Organics, I discovered that the birth of organics 15 years ago was a conspiracy of environmentalists involving some apples and a trace chemical which was later found to be harmless in the quantities being complained about.

I also found a paper about organic fertilizers and how they spread e coli and salmonella through the plants being fertilized. This is what happened with all the spinich a few years back and will most likely be the tomaoe issue of 2008.

I believe, but my interuptation of what I was reading may have been inaccurate, this is a 100% organic tea that will give your plants e coli. It was part of a worst case scenario.

Molasses, Bat Guano, Fish Hydrolysate, Humic Acid, Seaweed, Sea Bird Guano, Kelp, Citric Acid, Epsom Salts, Iron Sulfate, Seabed minerals, Calcium Carbonate, and a combination of Fish hydrolysate+Seaweed.

This tea was brewed in two different ways. The first was 24 hours aerobic, and the the second was 8.5 day anaerobic. They both cause the plants to have the e coli and salmonella pathogens.

Here is the list of which organic compounds support the two pathogens.

Fish Hydrolysate, Soluble Kelp, Humic Acid, Seaweed, Molasses based product.

I am unclear if each is a carrier, or if the pathogens are part of a chemical reaction of the combined ingredients.

Good Luck and be safe.

 

[facelift]

I wanted to add that if interested, you can get an instant e coli and salmonella test kit for about 20 bucks should you be interested in the bacteria levels of your teas.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

why are you concearned about bacteria in your teas? - they are not for you to drink - teas are for plants.

I don't eat raw cannabis.

uhhh remeber - we are using bat crap - it's going to have a bazillion mico organisms - that's part of the idea - with food, proper temps and proper aireation - the good guys will colonize and consume the anaroebic type species. That is what makes composting turn hazardious waste into "Good Shit"

Some things about organis rock - some is marketing hype.

It's akin to the mas marketing of antibacterial soaps etc, while it sounds good - many micrrobes seem to empower our auto-immune responses - which can improve health and vitality.


Plants, like people, do best when healthy. I've seen examples using both extreams and many in the middle.

 

[Microbeman]

I've been reading here and was wondering which type of bat guano you use. I don't recalled anyone mentioning what the NPK ratios were, or if they knew which type of bat it came from. Here's a link to several guano's of different bats and sea birds. Ranging from desert bats to cave bats. It seems that each subspecies produces a different NPK ratio based on diet. I thought it might be helpful. Some of these guano are flowering grade and veggitive grade based on the NPK ratios.

http://www.pristinehydro.com/accessories.html

While researching a subject on Organics, I discovered that the birth of organics 15 years ago was a conspiracy of environmentalists involving some apples and a trace chemical which was later found to be harmless in the quantities being complained about.

I also found a paper about organic fertilizers and how they spread e coli and salmonella through the plants being fertilized. This is what happened with all the spinich a few years back and will most likely be the tomaoe issue of 2008.

I believe, but my interuptation of what I was reading may have been inaccurate, this is a 100% organic tea that will give your plants e coli. It was part of a worst case scenario.

Molasses, Bat Guano, Fish Hydrolysate, Humic Acid, Seaweed, Sea Bird Guano, Kelp, Citric Acid, Epsom Salts, Iron Sulfate, Seabed minerals, Calcium Carbonate, and a combination of Fish hydrolysate+Seaweed.

This tea was brewed in two different ways. The first was 24 hours aerobic, and the the second was 8.5 day anaerobic. They both cause the plants to have the e coli and salmonella pathogens.

Here is the list of which organic compounds support the two pathogens.

Fish Hydrolysate, Soluble Kelp, Humic Acid, Seaweed, Molasses based product.

I am unclear if each is a carrier, or if the pathogens are part of a chemical reaction of the combined ingredients.

Good Luck and be safe.

What a total pile of misconstrued misinformation!

Just 2; Organics was born much longer than 15 years ago.

The e-coli infected spinach was from traditionally grown crops grown too close to penned cattle.

 

[facelift]

It's only incomplete because I didn't post the links to the scientific studies where I got my information. I didn't alter any of the facts from their original form. Yes, I added my own words to express my idea, but my intention was not to mislead. You guys seem so obsessed with the relatively minor inconveiences caused by ph, humidity, gnats and mites damaging your buds, it would only make sense to me that you might be interested if the crap you are growing your weed with has e coli or salmonella. Clearly if ph, humidity, gnats and mites are harmful, so it e coli if not more so.

Shit is shit, and all mammals can produce e coli in their wastes at varying levels. Also take into account that I posted the worst case scenario. I'm not saying that you are all at risk, I'm only implying that you are. Really. I think I deserve a little credit for even sharing the information. I could have sat around at kept it to myself, and no one would have been the wiser.

I'm pretty sure, the heat and vaporization kills the pathogens, right?

 

[facelift]

INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY, 9/18/2006

Environmentalism: Organic spinach appears to be the culprit behind a 20-state outbreak of deadly E. coli poisoning, casting further doubt on greens' claims that "organic is safer."

About 15 years ago, environmentalists set off a scare over the pesticide Alar used on apples. They brainwashed the public into thinking they could die from trace amounts of such chemicals, and the organic movement was born.

Organic growers, including the spinach farm suspected in the E. coli outbreak, use fertilizer made from manure rather than synthetic chemicals. Dangerous bacteria such as E. coli can be found in animal waste. And composting — unlike those "evil" pesticides — doesn't always kill the bacteria.

California-based Natural Selection Foods, the country's largest grower of organic produce, has recalled its packaged spinach throughout the U.S. Its best-known brand, Earthbound Farm, grows the organic spinach found in packaged salad fixings that have become a mainstay of restaurants and supermarkets.

Earthbound's Web site argues that organic farming is safer and healthier than conventional methods using synthetic fertilizers and "highly toxic" pesticides.

"When you choose organic," it says, "you're not only protecting your family's health, you're helping to protect the environment."

Its "earth-friendly alternatives" to chemicals include recycled plants and "sometimes animal waste materials."

You learn elsewhere on the Web site that these materials include chicken manure and "pelletized bat and bird guano," raising questions about the risk of not just E. coli, but also avian flu.

"This ingredient list may sound unappealing," Earthbound concedes, "but utilizing these waste products enables us to grow healthy plants without the use of petroleum-based fertilizers" that could harm the earth.

The more than 100 people battling E. coli poisoning from organic spinach — half of whom have been hospitalized — probably don't care about "earth friendly" alternatives right now. The outbreak has already killed an elderly woman and an infant.

Earthbound maintains that "organic is the healthiest choice for kids." A Dr. Alan Greene is quoted on its Web site saying, "I advocate feeding kids organic foods whenever possible . . . to reduce children's pesticide exposure."

EPA studies show no health damage from trace consumption of pesticides in produce, but we all know E. coli is a killer. And this outbreak is no isolated case. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says fruit and vegetables are responsible for more large-scale outbreaks of food-borne illnesses than meat, poultry and eggs.

Produce accounts for 6% of the outbreaks, up sharply from previous years. Organically grown lettuce, sprouts, green onions, tomatoes and melons (bacteria thrive on melon rinds) appear to be especially troublesome.

And as more school cafeterias go organic, more kids are getting sick. A 2002 federal report revealed that the number of school-lunch outbreaks caused by E. coli and salmonella doubled between 1990 and 2000.

The number of outbreaks will only get worse as stores stock more of the potentially dangerous organic produce, which happens to cost more than conventional produce. Organic farming is big business. The Agriculture Department says certified organic acreage has more than doubled over the past decade.

Thanks to the green lobby, consumers have been talked into thinking more expensive organic is safer and healthier. What a load of manure.

Link to tea information: pfd format only. Html unreadable.

http://www.midatlanticcompost.org/meetingResources/Ingram.pdf

Link to safe usage of guano and manure. Contains reasonable information and a table showing the basic NPK make up.

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/manures.html

Good Luck. Grow safe!

 

[P-NUT]

dude are you serious? great place to get gardening advice, a business mag. look up rodale institute been around longer than I've been alive(hellava lot longer than 15 years). I really take offence to the parts about trace amounts of pesticides being safe and properly composted manure causing harvested crops to poison school childrens lunches. That is a load of uncomposted bacteria infested shit. but I guess if you believe that organic gardening has only been around 15 years you'll believe just about anything. I dont intend to hurt your feelings or get into a shit slinging match(wouldnt be fair you didnt compost yours) but damn facelift you did the equivalent of going to a holocaust survivor forum and denying it happened. I leave you with this final nugget to ponder; 10 generations ago how did your ancestors grow their crops?

 

[facelift]

Good enough.

I'm aware that the forefathers paid bounties of caches of bat shit.

My entire point is that that little container next to your grow room is a festering mix of animal waste and the bacteria growing inside is waiting to be spread into a new home. I understand how people could be offended by someone saying that what they are using isn't as safe as they believe it is. Or that they are using it in an unsafe manner.

This information can be used to advantage. Imagine the next Cannabis Cup Winner being able to tout that their buds were grow with organic fertilizers. Organic fertilizers that were tested and proven to be e coli free. It's all the rage with spinach.

Anyway, sorry to prey on paranoia fears and senses. It was just too easy. Call it trolling if you will as many organic followers are snobbish, and I was well aware attack strong beliefs would set a few people off, but my intention was pure and motivated by health and safety of both the closet pot growers I communicate with, and the people they may service.

Take Care!

 

[Microbeman]

Hello there Facelift,

I'm familiar with the studies done by Ingram (not to be confused with Ingham). These studies were flawed because E-coli was placed in the compost tea, insufficient aeration was used and besides the full population of microbes was not quantified, including protozoa. Besides this there was no microbial report of the compost. I communicated with Ingram and she promised to send me details of the study once it was peer reviewed. This has never occured.

There was a similar study done in Canada which is even more heavily used to hold up the myth that E-coli grows in compost tea. Compost tea (CT) means just that. It does not include manure or guano teas. Composted material and vermicompost no longer have manure components if done properly. You will find posts by me encouraging people to not make guano tea, thinking it is the same as CT. Are you aware that there are numerous strains of E-coli which are good?

In certified organic farming manure is not generally permitted unless applied to the soil 120 days prior to harvest. I don't think that properly managed family farms would end up with such a problem of e-coli infection. It is these huge factory farms which are the source, where workers don't care. Isn't it interesting that our food related problems were not so pronounced earlier in the 1900s?

I'll try to find and post the findings related to the e-coli spinach episode. As I remember, it was from adjacent cattle and run off. People trying to pack too much into a small area. $$$$$

I encourage you to research organic or natural growing so you learn how it really works. Please feel free to have a look at my website; www.microbeorganics.com

 

[facelift]

Thanks,

I started on this train after watching something on Discovery a couple weeks ago, but when I searched for what I was trying to find, I only came up with what I posted. I did see that the samples were innocculated, but my entire meaning was to share some info on potential contamination of organic teas.

I'm sure it would be a rare case anyway.

 

[Microbeman]

2006 spinach infection; haven’t found the more recent one.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/10/13/MNG71LOT711.DTL

Samples of cattle manure on pastures surrounding a spinach field have tested positive for the same strain of E. coli bacteria that killed at least three people and sickened nearly 200 others -- the first direct evidence linking a Salinas Valley farm to the outbreak that has spanned 26 states and one Canadian province.


The pasture is part of an unidentified beef cattle ranch that also leases its fields to spinach growers. Fences on the cattle operation had been penetrated by wild pigs, and disease detectives are trying to determine whether feral swine might have played a role in spreading the bacteria from pasture to spinach field.
Tests at the California Department of Health Services laboratory in Richmond found that E. coli O157:H7 bacteria detected in three cow pies produced the same genetic fingerprints as the strain found in human victims and in the bags of spinach they had purchased.
"This is a significant finding,'' said Kevin Reilly, deputy director of prevention services for the California Department of Health Services, during a telephone press conference Thursday afternoon.
Out of nine outbreaks of E. coli food poisoning traced to spinach or lettuce from the Salinas Valley since 1995, this is the first in which investigators have been able to link the bacteria strain that caused the illness to a farm where greens were grown. Reilly stressed that the test results do not prove that the manure was responsible for the outbreak and that investigators are continuing to look at other potential sources.
But the state has reduced from nine to four the number of farms under scrutiny in the investigation of the spinach outbreak. Fields located in Santa Clara County are no longer under suspicion, but samples taken from a field in each of the four unidentified farms in San Benito and Monterey counties are being examined.
State and federal officials have steadfastly refused to identify which farms they are investigating. Investigators say fresh produce is no longer being grown on any of the four remaining fields that grew spinach linked to the outbreak.
The E. coli illnesses first came to light on Sept. 14, when the FDA pieced together reports of 49 illnesses in eight states -- all caused by the same genetic strain of O157:H7. All victims had eaten spinach traced to Natural Selection Foods, which had bagged the fresh produce at its San Juan Bautista plant. Using plant records, the investigators then focused on nine farms that had supplied spinach to a batch processed by Natural Selection for the Dole Baby Spinach label. Since then, they have taken more than 650 specimens from soil, water and manure on the nine farms.
Health officials exploring other possible routes of transmission have not ruled out contamination of irrigation water, improper farmworker sanitation, or bacteria spread through tainted fertilizer or dirty farm implements.
Reilly said that the farm where the suspect manure was found did not fully adhere to the voluntary guidelines used by growers to keep fresh leafy greens safe from contamination. For example, although no evidence indicates that the beef cattle had strayed onto the spinach fields, Reilly said there is concern about the proximity of cattle to spinach fields and that fences on the farm had failed to keep wildlife from trudging over pasture and fields.
"On this ranch there is a very large population of wild boar,'' said Reilly. There was evidence that the pigs had torn through fencing or burrowed under it, he said. "We don't know if that is the source (of contamination of the fields), but it is a potential source.''
The E.-coli-positive cow pies were taken some distance away, between half a mile and a mile from the field that produced spinach suspected of sickening consumers.
Reilly said it was not uncommon for ranches in San Benito and Monterey counties to have spinach fields adjacent to cattle operations. In this case, "the field is, frankly, surrounded by pasture,'' Reilly said.
Federal regulators are concerned about the practice of raising cattle near fields that grow salad greens. "The relationship of farm animals to produce is certainly something to take under consideration,'' said Dr. Robert Brackett, branch director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition at the Food and Drug Administration. As the industry scrambles to develop stricter guidelines -- and as government agencies face political pressure to make the rules mandatory -- standards such as minimum distance, upslope and down slope between pasture and fields are likely to be established.
The American bout of E. coli illnesses prompted Mexico on Monday to ban imports of lettuce from the United States, setting off an urgent round of discussions between the two governments. The ban was imposed in response to a decision by the Nunes Co. of Salinas to recall more than 8,000 cartons of leafy green lettuce Sunday after detecting E. coli bacteria in water used to irrigate it. Subsequent tests by the company have shown that the bacteria detected were not from the deadly O157:H7 strain. No illnesses have been linked to the lettuce.
The Monterey County Farm Bureau on Thursday condemned the Mexican ban. "There is no evidence that lettuce shipped from California to Mexico is unsafe,'' the bureau said in a prepared statement.
"We are working with the Mexican government to address this,'' said FDA food safety branch director Brackett.
Despite narrowing the search for the culprit in the spinach outbreak, Brackett warned that the FDA remains concerned about the potential for another crop to be contaminated. "No farm should feel they are 'off the hook,' " he said. "It is absolutely essential that farms throughout the country are doing everything they can to make sure this does not happen again.''

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Careful there Microbeman, you may EARN that screen name. lol

Good info and even more support fo the grow it at home minded.

Gee if cow crap can contain toxins,,, kinda makes chemical based ferts look a tad more,,,,, "Safer" huh?

 

[Microbeman]

WHAT??? Is that a joke or are you serious?

 

[sophisto]

Careful there Microbeman, you may EARN that screen name. lol

Good info and even more support fo the grow it at home minded.

Gee if cow crap can contain toxins,,, kinda makes chemical based ferts look a tad more,,,,, "Safer" huh?

It's safer in the eyes of our germophobic corporate minded governments and most of the people they govern. They want it this way too.. Do a search engine of the words "white list", pretty scary...In reality organics was and is safer. Most importanly safer for our future and the future of the globe we live on as a whole....

SAVE THE SOIL FROM THE GRAVEDIGGERS!!!!! GO ORGANIC.. The sun, air, soil and water are the only things our planet and it's species cannot survive without... The air, water, and soil are the only things we have a choice in protecting...They could care less....

GMO foods are another great invention from the sleepwalker parade....

HEre I copied this info about the "white list"....

What is the White List?
The White List (or "clean list") is proposed policy which will extend government and corporate control over the possession, importation and movement of anything that is alive - plants, animals, fungi, microorganisms, everything. Under current law, the government controls or prohibits a limited list of pest species - agricultural weeds, insect pests, dangerous pathogens, etc. Only species known to cause problems are controlled. Under the White List, the government will draw up a limited list of species it deems "safe", which will continue to be legal to possess, move or import. All other species, an estimated 99.75% of the Earth's biota will be considered "guilty until proven innocent", presumed harmful or dangerous, and will be prohibited.

Once in place, only the limited "white list" of government-approved species will be permitted - all other species will be considered contraband, with penalties for possession and mandated extermination. To add a species to the White List, expensive "safety testing" and "risk assessment" will be required for approval. Randy Westbrooks, of the USDA, stated that the testing should be similar to the 30 to 40 million-dollar safety testing required to market a new toxic chemical. To offset the cost of testing, it has been proposed that a new form of life patent be granted, giving sole rights to the entire species and its genome to the corporation paying for the testing (it being unlikely that individuals will be able to afford such testing), and granting complete immunity to the patent holder of the species becomes a pest. This will place over 99% of the natural world off-limits - it is the greatest "theft of the commons" from humanity, and the greatest extension of government and corporate control over the natural world in history. While placing the Earth's living biodiversity into private corporate ownership, it will also create self-perpetuating bureaucratic sinecures - an army of unelected bureaucrats, unanswerable to the public, with the power of life and death over all species. Once federal legislation is in place, the states will soon follow, controlling all movement of native species between states.

The White List/National Weed Strategy will mandate the extermination of all unapproved species. Not only will this include unapproved "foreign" species from outside the U.S., but will inevitably include hundreds of U.S. native species which happen to have moved outside their historic boundaries - many native species with expanding ranges are already being exterminated wherever they are deemed "invaders" by decision-makers. At a prairie restoration in New York 5 species of native trees and shrubs were declared "invaders", cut and burned. In Illinois, a native Solidago was killed with herbicide; in an Indiana nature preserve native red cedar girdled and burned; at Curtis Prairie, University of Wisconsin, native aspens declared "invaders", girdled and cut; at Dolomite Hill Prairie Restoration in Illinois, 4 native trees and shrubs cleared with brush hogs, herbicide and burning; in California, native red fox declared an "alien predator" and killed; in San Diego County a native Encelia was declared "a threat to genetic and ecosystem integrity" and exterminated. Even the endangered Monterey cypress is killed mere miles from its last remaining wild stands as a "weed tree" and "non-native fire hazard". The propagation and reintroduction of endangered wild plants has been called a "risk to the genetic integrity of wild plant populations" and a threat to "native plant communities".

This is a government seizure of the power to dictate the natural range of every species, and to dictate the exact species composition of all natural areas and every ecosystem in the nation. Private property will not be excluded - even under current law the government has the power to enter private land and destroy pest species. If you are found with an unapproved species on your land, the "infestation" can be declared a public nuisance, exterminated, and you can be billed for the costs of "abatement".

White list proponents have also lobbied for changes to the World Trade Organization rules to further their agenda.

"This agenda turns environmentalism on its head; the wholesale poisoning of our natural areas with ecosystem-destroying chemicals will be mandatory government policy profiting corporate giants, yet wild plants and animals, the very components of the natural world and basis of all biological diversity will require multi-million dollar testing for "safety!"-- Hudson, 1995.


Sorry I know this is completely off topic.......BAKED..

 

[RockyMountainHi]

I'm a mostly organic type, My plants receive Guano teas, worm castings, alfalfa, molasses, fish juice, cannabis tea, all in a highly oxygenated mixture, and the occasional blast of Fox Farms best juju.

The thread starter was the one in a dither about e-coli. Like I said earlier in the thread, - if ya don't drink the tea - ya shouldn't get sick. And let us not overlook the pure ODDS against being stricken ill from e-coli - and I've never heard of an outbreak related to indoor growing - of ANY species, vegetable, fruit or - fungus for that matter.


I've seen gardens flourish in both methods - and some that combine some of each. Doesn't make either better or worse - just different ways to a somewhat common goal.

The comment about good traits of chemicals was facetious, however - in this instance - it did have some merit. If only for a brief moment. LOL