Desert Storm Syndrome

[subrob]

i am feelin pretty good this morning. woke up late, turned on CNN to listen too while i got ready for work. first thing i see on the television was a banner that reads: new congressional study says gulf war illness IS real.
now, i dont NEED congress or the army to tell me its real, ive lived with it for 17 years. 17 years of them telling us its all in our heads. 17 years of having friends die of brain cancer at much higher rates then the general population, have kids with birth defects at many times higher a rate than the gen. pop., brothers sucking down morphine, oxy, percs, vics, anti inflammatories, anti depressants, meds to help our bodies recover from the OTHER meds they give us! i didnt NEED to hear its real, BUT, i really did NEED to hear them admit it!
im at a high level of disability from the army already. now i know, in five more years, when my body has degenerated even more then it has now, i will be able to get my full benefits, with hopefully less resistance then we have met so far.
bad news is now i(we) have to take the scary statistics into account. the rates of terminal cancer, the chronic fatigue, the pain, the shaky hands, CRS(cant remember shit) the neurological disorders, the depression...the list goes on. good news, maybe now they will try to find a cure. 17 years is a long time to wait to get started, but maybe now they will, before more DIE.
i have been fighting the army(thousands of us have been) so long on this, im not sure the news has even settled yet. i dont know what to think. i dont even know what to do. i dont wanna be at work right now, i wanna be outside, somewhere quiet, and finally let out a breath ive been holding for close to two decades.....

 

[Grow Tech]

Breathe my Brother!

 

[subrob]

Panel finds sickly Legacy to Gulf War
November 17, 2008
Cox News Service

WASHINGTON - At least one in four U.S. veterans of the 1991 Gulf War suffers from a multi-symptom illness caused by exposure to toxic chemicals during the conflict, a congressionally mandated report being released today found.

For much of the past 17 years, government officials have maintained that these veterans -- more than 175,000 out of about 697,000 deployed -- are merely suffering the effects of wartime stress, even as more have come forward recently with severe ailments.

"The extensive body of scientific research now available consistently indicates that 'Gulf War illness' is real, that it is the result of neurotoxic exposures during Gulf War deployment, and that few veterans have recovered or substantially improved with time," said the report, being released Monday by a panel of scientists and veterans. A copy was obtained by Cox Newspapers.

Gulf War illness is typically characterized by a combination of memory and concentration problems, persistent headaches, unexplained fatigue and widespread pain. It may also include chronic digestive problems, respiratory symptoms and skin rashes.

Two things the military provided to troops in large quantities to protect them -- pesticides and pyridostigmine bromide (PB), aimed at thwarting the effects of nerve gas -- are the most likely culprits, the panel found.

The Research Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses, created by Congress in 2002, presented its 450-page report to Secretary of Veterans Affairs James Peake on Monday. It said its report is the first to review the hundreds of U.S. and international studies on Gulf War vets since that have been conducted the mid-1990s.

In a 2004 draft report to Congress, the panel said that many Gulf veterans were suffering from neurological damage caused by exposure to toxic chemicals. The new report goes further by pinpointing known causes and it criticizes past U.S. studies, which have cost more than $340 million, as "overly simplistic and compartmentalized."

It recommends that the Department of Veterans Affairs order a re-do of past Gulf War and Health reports, calling them "skewed" because they did not include evaluations of toxic exposure studies in lab animals, as Congress had requested. The panel examined such tests and noted that recent ones -- unethical to carry out on humans - have identified biological effects from Gulf War exposures that were previously unknown.

While it called some new VA and DOD programs promising, it noted that overall federal funding for Gulf War research has dropped sharply in recent years. Those studies that have been funded, it said, "have little or no relevance to the health of Gulf War veterans, and for research on stress and psychiatric illness."

"Veterans of the 1990-1991 Gulf War had the distinction of serving their country in a military operation that was a tremendous success, achieved in short order. But many had the misfortune of developing lasting health consequences that were poorly understood and, for too long, denied or trivialized," the committee's report says.

The report also faults the Pentagon, saying it clearly recognized scientific evidence substantiating Gulf War illness in 2001 but did not acknowledge it publicly.

It said that Acting Special Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Gulf War illnesses Lt. Gen. Dale Vesser remarked that year that although Saddam Hussein didn't use nuclear, biological, or chemical agents against coalition forces during the war -- an assertion still debated -- "It never dawned on us ././. that we may have done it to ourselves."

"We know that at least 40,000 American troops may have been overexposed to pesticides," Vesser said, adding that more than 250,000 American troops took the small, white PB pills. "Both of these substances may (be) consistent with the symptoms that some Gulf War veterans have."

The panel is urging Congress to spend at least $60 million annually for Gulf War research. It notes that no effective treatments have yet been found.

The VA declined to comment until it has a chance to review the report.

The panel focused its research on comparing the brain and nervous system of healthy adults with those of sick Gulf War vets, as well as analyzing changes to the neuroendocrine and immune systems. It found that in terms of brain function, exposure to pesticides and the PB pills hurts people's memory, attention and mood. Some people, it notes, are genetically more susceptible to exposures than others.

About half of Gulf War personnel are believed to have taken PB tablets during deployment, with the greatest use among ground troops and those in forward positions. Many veterans say they were forced to take the pills, which had not been approved by the FDA, and some said they immediately became sickened.

"Many of us got sick from the pills," said retired Staff Sgt.

Anthony Hardie, a Wisconsin native who was with a multinational unit that crossed from Saudi Arabia into Kuwait and then Iraq. He said he was required to take them for several weeks and soon suffered from watery eyes and vision problems, diarrhea, muscle twitching and a runny nose. A fellow Special Forces officer, he said, lost about 20 pounds in short order. "All of us had concerns at the time."

To ward off swarms of sand flies in Kuwait City and the eastern Saudi province of Dhahran, Hardie said trucks would come through at 3 a.m. and spray "clouds" of pesticides. Fly strips that smelled toxic hung "everywhere," especially near food. "The pesticide use was far and away (more) than what you'd see in daily life," he said. Several Soldiers interviewed said they were ordered to dunk their uniforms in the pesticide DEET and to spray pesticide routinely on exposed skin and in their boots to ward off scorpions.

Others wore pet flea collars around their ankles.

 

[subrob]

The federal panel added that it also could not rule out an association between Gulf War illness and the prolonged exposure to oil fires, as well as low-level exposures to nerve agents, injections of many vaccines and combinations of neurotoxic exposures.

Hardie, a panel member, is convinced that he was later exposed to the chemical warfare agent Lewisite in a freshly abandoned Iraqi bunker; he noted its signature strong geranium smell. He said he and others in his unit who ran miles a day past burning oil wells later hacked up black chunks of mucus and what he says his doctors think were pieces of his lung tissue. He said civilian doctors have diagnosed him with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, dizziness, confusion, acid reflux disease and chronic sinusitis.

He was not among the 100,000 U.S. troops who were potentially exposed to low-levels of Sarin gas, a nerve agent, as a result of large-scale U.S. demolitions of Iraqi munitions near Khamisiyah, Iraq, in 1991. Troops who were downwind from the demolitions have died from brain cancer at twice the rate of other Gulf War veterans, the report stated.

A panel member, Dr. Roberta White, chair of environmental health at the Boston University School of Public Health, found evidence last year linking low-level exposure to nerve gas among in Persian Gulf troops with lasting brain deficits. The extent of the deficits - less brain "white matter" and reduced cognitive function -- corresponded to the extent of the exposure.

In addition, the panel said, Gulf War veterans have significantly higher rates of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) than other veterans.

White said that while there is a lot of anecdotal evidence of Gulf War vets contracting multiple sclerosis (MS), studies haven't confirmed a combat link to that degenerative disease. Questions also remain about rates of cancers, disease-specific mortality rates in Gulf War veterans and the health of veterans' children.

Conversely, the panel said there is little evidence supporting an association or major link with depleted uranium, anthrax vaccine, fuels, solvents, sand and particulates, infectious diseases, and chemical agent resistant coating (CARC).

The fact that veterans repeatedly still find that their complaints are met with cynicism, she said, "upsets me as a scientist, as someone who cares about veterans."

Hardie said the Gulf War veterans have felt profound frustration that the health community as a whole has only been treating affected veterans' symptoms.

"If you have MS - 'here's some Motrin.' How long can you take nasal steroids without getting at root cause -- the brain damage?" he said. "The sad thing is scientists are saying in more precise terms what veterans were saying all along: We are sick, sickened by Gulf War service, and we need health care to help us."


© Copyright 2008 Cox News Service. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

[cbf]

Yeah, it sucks they make you sign away your health when you enlist. Once you sign your rights away on that form, they treat you like their Guinea Pig. I've heard plenty stories of soldiers falling ill after Anthrax and other unknown vaccines they were given, sounds like a scary proposal.. best of luck in healing man..

 

[subrob]

gt i am man, i am. thanks
-cbf-thanks for stoppin in man, and thanks for the words.

 

[Suby]

I think the state owes all it`s veterans a world of respect and thanks for the sacrifices they made, telling them they are nuts isn`t a good start.
By ignoring your pleas they have tarnished that respect and in short betrayed your confidence.
I am not pro-war but I applaud anybody who is ready to put his money where his mouth is to defend those in need.
I`m glad all of you now have recourse and recognition in your fight.
Everyman that fights against injustice anywhere is a soldier in my eyes.

Peace

 

[subrob]

thanks suby, i appreciate the words.- it has been a frustrating fight the whole way. and its not about money, its not about whats owed, its about the fact they are 17 years behind in trying to cure what is wrong with us. you deal with the pain and the sickness everyday, and the organization that is tasked with our health care cant, and wont, lift a finger till a beauracrat signs a piece of paper saying, yes, this is in fact happening every day to thousands of vets who did what we told them to do. those vets that trusted thier government to have our backs.

 

[Dragor]

Alas brother, alas... glad someone in the white building finally heard your and the soldiers' cries, albeit an awfully pathetic long time to have you waiting, 17yrs... Hope they make thoughtful changes to your meds & recovery plan as accorded by the research studies plus any past reimbursements... God Bless the Glory of today, finally a Breath of some positivity and direction after all the chaos they put you through... Amen

 

[Greyskull]

Aloha sub. I didn't know you were a veteran.

It always pisses me off when veterans get the short end of the beauracratic stick.
I'd be nice to watch the veterans get the long end and beat the beauracrats with it.
Again man, much
mahalos

 

[NOKUY]

thats some damn good news despite the negative that surrounds it....i'm truly sorry that u have had to face such a fight bro!....and i really fukin wish i could say that im surprised.

u know the naysayers are gonna go hide in the closet now, instead of face this reality, and help do whats right.

keep your head up bro...it looks like things are gonna get better!

 

[RudolfTheRed]

thanks for your service subrob.
i kind of know what your going through, my father was a veteran of the Vietnam war and he was ignored and mistreated the same way.
for this next generation growing up, prepare to see the exact same thing with iraqi and afghan veterans. hell, from my understanding not much has changed... a lot of solders being swept under the rug just like gulf war vets and vietnam vets.

 

[James-Bong]

I think the state owes all it`s veterans a world of respect and thanks for the sacrifices they made, telling them they are nuts isn`t a good start.
By ignoring your pleas they have tarnished that respect and in short betrayed your confidence.
I am not pro-war but I applaud anybody who is ready to put his money where his mouth is to defend those in need.
I`m glad all of you now have recourse and recognition in your fight.
Everyman that fights against injustice anywhere is a soldier in my eyes.

Peace

Nobody dislikes war more than a soldier.....

 

[subrob]

dragor-we will see how long it takes them to follow up with medical research etc.
--greyskull, thanks bro. next time your over i can show ya some cool shit.
---nokuy-thanks man. ive been telling my friends whats up the last few days, and so many say-thats a sad story or that pisses me off-to tell you the truth, im so used to it now that this is nothing but good! lol
--rudolph-my father got treated the same after vietnam. he and my grandpa pulled me aside when i was 18 and told me it was okay if i wanted to be the first in the family not to serve. my dads biggest fear was i would get sent to a foreign country, get chemicals dropped on me and then be ignored(just like him) i remember telling him, dont worry, the cold war is over, who is gonna f with the us now? ironic huh?
-james bong-aint that the truth man.

 

[subrob]

Gulf War Vets Vindicated, Not Helped
December 01, 2008
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Ground combat in the 1991 Persian Gulf War lasted just 100 hours, but it's meant 17 years of pain and anguish for hundreds of thousands of veterans.

Those who came home and complained of symptoms such as memory loss and joint pain are only sicker. Even as their lives unraveled as their health further deteriorated, many were told their problems were just in their head.

But, recently, many of the sufferers were given a new reason to hope. Earlier this month, a high-profile advisory panel to Veterans Affairs Secretary James Peake affirmed previous research that a collection of symptoms commonly known as Gulf War illnesses are real and require treatment. The country has a "national obligation" to help them, the panel concluded.

The report, however, also noted a sad reality: Of the $340 million in government funds spent to research the topic, little has focused on finding treatments. And, researchers said, the estimated 175,000-210,000 Gulf veterans who are sick aren't getting any better.

Many of those veterans are left wondering what's next for them. The panel, created by Congress, said at least $60 million should be spent annually for research, but some veterans question if in these economically strapped times the money will be made available.

"I just hope that our elected officials pay attention to it and they accept that it is true," said James Stutts, 60, of Berea, Ky., a retired Army lieutenant colonel and physician who struggles to walk and gave up practicing medicine because of memory problems after serving in the war. "It's not a stress-related, nor is it a psychosomatic, issue. It is true. It is real. There is pain, not only for the veteran, but their families."

The sad irony, said John Schwertfager, a veterans advocate in Ohio, is that many of the veterans who came home physically sick and were told wrongly it was a mental condition now struggle with real mental health problems after years of chronic pain and personal problems such as divorce and the inability to work.

"A slow, steady deterioration is what I'm seeing," Schwertfager said.

'All in your head'

Paul Sullivan, a Gulf War veteran who helped lead the fight on Capitol Hill to get help for the veterans, said it wasn't very long after the war ended that more and more veterans started complaining of symptoms such as fatigue, rashes, respiratory problems, diarrhea, headaches, muscle and joint pain, and nausea. When veterans wrote members of Congress, the lawmakers typically responded by contacting Pentagon officials who in turn wrote back saying there were no reports of chemical exposure, Sullivan said.

"They didn't tell Congress that they weren't looking," Sullivan said.

Cost was a factor. A 100 percent disabled veteran today is entitled to about $30,000 annually, which could easily mean more than $1 million in payments to veterans who live decades longer.

Compounding the problem was the complexity of the symptoms and uncertainty over the causes. Were they caused by combat stress? Was it vaccinations? Was it pills given to protect soldiers from nerve agents? Was it exposure to oil well fires or chemical weapons? Or a combination of factors?

Meanwhile, veterans like Jim Bunker, 49, an Army captain in the war who is today president of the National Gulf War Veterans Research Center in Kansas City, Kan., recalled getting the wrong type of treatment at the VA.

"They were like it's all psychological, it's all in your head, here are some antidepressants," said Bunker, who has severe headaches and has trouble walking, among other problems.

Since those early years, independent scientists have determined that the symptoms of the veterans do not constitute a single syndrome. They have pointed to pesticide, used to control insects, and pyridostigmine bromide pills, given to protect troops from nerve agents, as probable culprits for some of the symptoms.

Slowly, the veterans have made their case.

In 2001, after a government study determined that those who served in the Gulf War were nearly twice as likely to develop Lou Gehrig's disease as other military personnel, the VA said it would immediately offer disability and survivor benefits to veterans with the disease who fought in the war.

The veterans scored a legislative victory in 1998 with the passage of legislation that created the advisory panel that made the recent recommendations. In 2004, acting on its recommendations, then-VA Secretary Anthony Principi said that the agency would no longer pay for studies that seek to show stress is the primary cause.

It's not immediately clear whether Peake will act on the most recent recommendations. On Friday, he requested that the Institute of Medicine review them. Most likely, it will be up to the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama and the new Congress to decide what to do next.

Recommendations offer hope

Since the panel's recent report, Julie Mock, president of the Veterans of Modern Warfare, said her group's e-mail inbox has been flooded with e-mails from Gulf War veterans hopeful that help could be on the way.

"Most of them are, 'Thank God. Somebody's finally fighting for us,'" said Mock, a Gulf War veteran who has suffered from fatigue, rashes and headaches and was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2003 that she thinks is related to her war service.

Mock said she hopes the panel's recommendations will open the door for more Gulf War veterans to receive disability compensation.

Another organization, the Disabled American Veterans, is asking for more research for treatments. But it's also urging the VA to immediately appoint a working group to begin defining the health problems afflicting the veterans as something other than "undiagnosed" with the hope that would open the door for more Gulf War veterans to obtain benefits and health care.

"We don't want this to be studied to death," said Thom Wilborn, a DAV spokesman. "This is going to be affecting people for the next 20 years because some people who don't have it now may have it in the future."

Still, some veterans worry that nothing will change.

"I'm very jaded now. It's like, we've had our hopes up before. What makes this time different?" said Denise Nichols, a retired Air Force major who used to teach nursing but quit after the war because of memory problems.

Schwertfager, the Ohio advocate, said he's hopeful Obama will help the veterans because he thinks members of Congress "will see the report and go, 'That's bad, that's bad.' They'll issue a couple of press releases and, just like the past 17 years, it will be swept under the carpet nice and quietly."

Stutts, the Kentucky physician, said some days he can't get out of bed because of the pain, but he tries not to be bitter - even as he hopes that more help could some day be available.

"A lot of people have had it worse. They are now in Arlington cemetery. I can at least be thankful I'm still alive," Stutts said.

© Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

[Greyskull]

man we need to take better care of those that offer up 3-4 years of their lives, blindly.

ALL THOSE THAT HAVE SERVED ARE DESERVING OF THE UTMOST RESPECT AND PRIVELAGE

This beauracratic crap makes me feel so disgusted with how veterans are cared for.

 

[cbf]

My grandfather fought in 3 major wars and died almost pennyless, with hardly any help from the military, he volunteered at 17, and was scared to ask for bigger boots, even though his were 2 sizes too small and ruined his toes..sad story, the military cares about winning wars at any expense..usually

 

[subrob]

thanks for stoppin in guys. if a moderator happens to stop in here, i should have started this in the med forum, and i should have titled it "desert storm syndrome" if any mods could help move and retitle it, i would greatly appreciate it......sub

EDIT: thanks for the help babba

 

[subrob]

Stutts, the Kentucky physician, said some days he can't get out of bed because of the pain, but he tries not to be bitter - even as he hopes that more help could some day be available.

"A lot of people have had it worse. They are now in Arlington cemetery. I can at least be thankful I'm still alive," Stutts said.

© Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.[/QUOTE]
-----this is the attitude of many men and women who have served. why should i complain when my bro got fried with a white phospherous grenade or shot in the face, or got his arms and legs blown off by an IED? the american combat veteran is the least likely person in the world to whine or complain, even at the cost of a slow, painful death. that has to change. veterans, you have earned whatever health care you deserve, and it is time to DEMAND change. good luck to all my brothers and sisters......sub

 

[Rainman]

Sub - I knew back when I joined at 18 and went straight from school to the Middle East that I wouldn't ever be the same. Little did I know that my own gov. would do most of the damage. After getting something like 30 shots before they shipped my ass off I got sick as a dog for 2 weeks. Unknown reasons to the docs of course. Then spent the last 17 years fighting to prove that the shots/shit floating in the water/chemicals we were exposed to were at the bottom of all the problems we were having! I used to be a world class athlete and now cant sleep freakin 3 hours a night from terrors and pain in my lower legs caused by non cancerous growths called palomas that are basically calcium deposits growing in between my muscle fibers. Just imagine quarter sized balls growing in between your muscles and you get an idea. I have never second guessed going into the military or what I went through but I also get very angry when I see how they treated us when it was all over and done with. I am not even eligible for VA benefits but from what I have seen from the recent news I wouldn't want it anyway!

EOD Second Class
US Navy 1990-1995
Desert Storm Veteran