Cloning: To Use Domes or To Not Use Domes

[niggenz]

Before someone decides to say, neither. "Go with an aero cloner instead", let me say that I have built a few of these things and for my purposes, they cause more problems than benefit. Simply, I get roots with an aero cloner, but transplanting these babies into rock wool slabs with with the roots unprotected causes too many to die. I have tried encapsulating them in macro plugs, allowing roots to grow through the plugs, then transplanting into rockwool slabs but it proves to be more effort and still some die. In my v-sog set which takes 144 cuttings at a time, losing a number of cuttings is seriously detrimental.

So back to the old method. I notice after about a week, I get some terrible mold spores inside the dome. Sometimes after removing the dome, the mold has wiped out quite a number of clones. I am hearing of some that don't even use domes when rooting clones. If that is you, please educate me to your processes.

Here is what I am currently doing,

1. Fill tray with 5.5 pH'ed water with recommended amount of Thrive B1 Alive.
2. Dip cuttings into clonex. Plug dipped cuttings into pre-soaked plugs/cubes. Place in tray.
3. Put dome on tray with light 18" above leaf tops.
4. Let sit for one week.
5. Open vent on dome after one week.
6. Remove dome after 2nd week.
7. Refill nute solution. Add Vermicrop.

For the most part, I am successful, but the mold seems to fester under the domes. One thing I am not doing is trimming the leaf tips, which I shall be doing on the next set of cuttings. Just want to make sure if I go without the domes, what I should also be doing, how much longer must I wait for roots, etc.

Thanks!

 

[tejashidrow]

I never use a dome... Sometimes i trim the leaves, sometimes i don.t... I use a simple peralite DIY cloner99% success every time good luck...pax

 

[FreezerBoy]

No domes or misting for me.

I'm using a home made bubbler with an aquarium heater (75º-80º) along with Rockwool, Olivia's gel, Hormex (liquid IBA, NAA and B1) and GH Flora Micro and Bloom (no grow) at 1/4 tsp per gal. Soak each stem for one minute in full strength Hormex, followed by gel and cube and into the bubbler they go. Roots in approx 12 days



Keeping cuts short and leaves trimmed removes the need for domes. The meter only goes as low as 20% RH (here it's 34) according to local weather reports, I've cloned at 15% RH with no domes or misting.



I transplant to Hydroton net pots and DWC ASAP after roots appear. The fewer roots I can see, the fewer I can break.

Now here's the important part. I'm using the bubbler wrong! It was never meant to work this way. Used "properly" there's no rockwool, gel, Hormex or nutes. Just plain, unadjusted tap water. Problem was, that killed everything I put in it.

Moral of the story? Whatever works is right. Just keep trying till you find what works for you.

 

[B.C.]

Clones

Clones

I always use an incubatorer type thing. It's jus a tub with sides about 10 er 11 inches high. I fill it with 4-5 inches of water and put fish tank heater in it. I adjust the temps ta stay about 78 degrees. I then set another tub in this, so the water comes up the sides of that tub just alil bit. I take the clones ( 3-5 nodes ) an put em in to cup of 50% soil, 50% perlite with lots of holes in the bottom. I water very gently with a water bottle that has a pull up push down top, it works very well, nice an gentle. I then take a third tub, fip it upside down and use it for a dome. I leave this cracked just alil bit ( 1/4" ). This allows the heat/air to rise and push it's way out the slight crack around the bottom. After a day er two, I crack it some more and so on. In 6-7 days I take it all the way off. Doin it this way insures that there is always an exchange of air, so no mold or fungus can get started! Plus my temps are always bang on. When they start drying out, I jus put alil water in the bottom an they suck it right up. The clones never missa beat, the vigor is amazing. This method has worked for -everyone- I have taught how ta do it. Hope this helps. Take care... BC PS. I don't trim the leaves or use hormones, everything they need is in those leaves!

 

[niggenz]

Thanks guys. I may have elicited more more complex answers than I actually was looking for by not being specific enough =D. What I really want to know is given the method I use above, will I have roots if I simply forgo using the domes. Simply letting the cuttings sit in the tray and not doming them up? The key is that I want to avoid mold. I want to avoid using clone box-type solutions. I have built cloners before, but for my purposes, they require too much effort. Plus the current flowering system I use takes 144 cuttings at a time so setting up new clone box-type solution borders upon impracticality due to space limitations. With black trays, i can fit 55 cuttings per tray, with 3 trays filled, I have more than enough.

So if I take cuttings, dip them into rooting hormone, insert those cuttings into pre-soaked RW cubes/plugs, place the clone cubes/plugs into a tray containing cuttings nutes, put a light over the tray, and do not put a dome over the trays, will I get roots?

 

[pezoholic]

I have cloned in literally every type of medium, every kind of way. Hands down the a cloner works the best (whether aero or bubble) and cubes if you do them right are nearly as efficient but you HAVE TO USE A DOME and must watch them and water them daily. The cloners, you snip, dip and pop into the cloner. Come back 4 days for the warts, 6-9 for rootskis

 

[KindHypnos]

Have you tried opening up the dome a few times a day, just for a min or three? I always make sure to atleast give a breather once a day..... Trimming leaves back makes a huge difference too, especially when packing 'em in...

 

[smurfin'herb]

Ok first, clones that are not being rooted hydroponically need no lower than 90% rh for at least the first 3-5 days. You must use a dome (with vents open) to maintain this humidity level or else the clones will dry out and wilt, by that time its too late and your success rates and rooting times will suffer severely. Keep the temp at 75-80 degrees the whole time. I set my clone domes on top of my T5 floro's and hang a shoplight over them, this keeps the medium a lil warmer than the canopy which is what you wanna aim for, not just when it comes to cloning, but all stages of growth. After 5-7 days, prop the dome up an inch every other day to harden them off until you see roots. U must remove the dome and spray 2x every day during the first 5-7 days and 1x per day for the next 7-14 days until rooted. You will not get mold if you lift the dome 2x per day when you mist. I clone in 72 site trays with coco and they are packed in like sardines, and i used to encounter mold, but i solved that by doing what i stated above. I also suggest to take 5inch clones and trim everything but the top 1/3rd of the cutting, that should leave you with about 1 1/2-2 sets of leaves. Most mold ive gotton on clones forms on the smaller growth below the canopy that has very low light levels and high humidity, pretty much the recipe for mold! And make sure all of your clones are homogenous, or else bigger ones will shade out smaller ones causing them to contract mold, or root slow, or even not root at all. If you still have problems after all of that, spray your mother plants with sm-90 two days before taking clones, then spray clones 2x daily with plain ph'ed water for next 4-5 days, by this time the first application of sm-90 has been washed of by the previous 8 mistings. Then mix mild solution of sm-90 and spray clones again. But be careful not to use too much b/c it will clog the stomata, but if u use the right amount, it prevents the plant from transpiring by holding in the moisture in the leaves, leading to less time you need to mist your clones! You can also use Vitamin B-1, trichoderma and BT (bacillus thurigenesis) as well as an array of other methods for better success rates in cloning. Remember, if you only fill up half of a clone dome, your gonna have to mist more frequently than if it was full. When its wall to wall with cuttings, there is more moisture content in the dome cuz of the higher ratio of wet vegetative matter to the actual confined space. I also like to pack them together like that cuz it makes it virtually impossible for them to wilt because they are all holding each other up, and since they are so packed in, theres no room for them to even fall over! lol hope this helps you! your welcome... S'H

 

[B.C.]

If you can keep the trays between 75-80 degrees, maybe. I would still dome them at frist. Like I stated in my post, if ya leave the dome cracked with heat and air rising, it will cause an air exchange. No mold or fungus will grow in moving air. You can do basically the same thing I'm doin with tubs......I think yer success will be higher if dome em, but you can try it without tho. Keep a close eye on em so the cubes don't dry out. The temp are a must tho. My opinion anyway. Good luck! BC

 

[wavedash]

I believe that high humidity does help stimulate root growth with clones but is not necessary. Perhaps if your humidity was at 0% it might hurt, but I bet your room still ranges from 30-50%. Your clones should root just fine without the dome, might just take a couple of days longer.

 

[smurfin'herb]

No way. if your rooting into a medium, you need to have humidity at least at 80-90% unless you spray them like a ton of times per day. Id say at least 90% of clones taken will wilt unless a dome is on or the mentioned humidity level is kept somehow. Your success rates/rooting times will be horrrrribly diminished if you dont use a dome. Some other plants besides cannabis can root without a dome in 60-70%humidity (i think rose cuttings are one example) but most pot doesnt take well to these conditions.

 

[FreezerBoy]

No way. if your rooting into a medium, you need to have humidity at least at 80-90% unless you spray them like a ton of times per day. Id say at least 90% of clones taken will wilt unless a dome is on or the mentioned humidity level is kept somehow. Your success rates/rooting times will be horrrrribly diminished if you dont use a dome. Some other plants besides cannabis can root without a dome in 60-70%humidity (i think rose cuttings are one example) but most pot doesnt take well to these conditions.

Not true. If that's what works for you, keep doing it but, it's not needed by many, including myself. Domes were my #1 cause of death. I clone in medium (Rockwool) at an average RH of 35%. Sometimes as low as 15%. No domes, no misting, if they want water they can get it themselves.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Not true. If that's what works for you, keep doing it but, it's not needed by many, including myself. Domes were my #1 cause of death. I clone in medium (Rockwool) at an average RH of 35%. Sometimes as low as 15%. No domes, no misting, if they want water they can get it themselves.

FB, have'nt you gone onto the medium's humidity, not the atmospheric ? I totally agreee about rockwool, saturated it is totally rubbish for roots.

If you have 15% atmospheric humidity I think Senor FB will be having some problems with well rooted plants, let alone cuttings ?


If the propagation area atmosphere is less than 70/80%ish Humidity, the clone has to transpire water to breathe and cool itself, not easy when she has no roots, so if you leave it at 80%, it has almost no transpiration "work to do" .... giving those stem cells in the cube time to turn into undifferentiated cells, then root cells....

Likewise, they do not need or want high light levels in the first 5 days, give them time to change quietly without stresing a plant that rootless, cannot support it's growth potential.

Where a lot of people go wrong is in shutting vents... over 90% humidity is just as bad as under 70% [ish] .... plus you get rot... have some bare water at the bottom and run vents fully open from day 1 .. I use a heated reservoir under the clones to achieve this and get perfect results.

BTW, as with almost everything, it is variety dependant, my old Swazi clone a monkey could root in the Sahara, whilst Northern Lights can be a right sod even in the best conditions.

 

[niggenz]

FreezerBoy, I actually built a clone box very much like your setup. Originally, it was a prototypical DYI aero cloner complete with neoprene inserts. Using this method, I got roots. But then had many clones die during transplant into vertical RW slabs. The unprotected roots simply could not take the shock. So I got the idea of instead of dropping the bare cuttings through the neoprene inserts, I took the inserts out and dropped a cutting inserted into a rockwool macro plug into the net basket. I got roots but my success rate was not high. Seems without the neoprene inserts in place, water was spraying up through the misters below through the net pots hitting the leaves. The constant spray of water rotted out many of my babies. I see in your setup, the holes on the lid are completely sealed, so you would not have the problem. Also, with the cuttings inserted into RW plugs and the plugs being misted at some set interval thus always leaving the RW plugs wet, I thought this would not be that much different if I just let the clone plugs sit in a watered tray. Why the need to run a pump and misting system and deal with the inherent problems of such? Also, again, space is a concern. I made and aero cloner for 55 sites using a 44 gallon container. With a footprint at about 2ftx4ft and the need for 144 cuttings at a time, I would need three of those and I just don't have that space available for a clone chamber.

I am also at that point of having barely enough mothers for clone stock, so I can't experiment/deviate too much from the tried and true method. So smurfin'herb's suggestions appeal to me most. The suggestions here are subtle changes and not drastic. I certainly cannot afford to lose a whole cutting cycle for experimentation at this point. Methods mentioned here differ, but the thread of logic that is running through everyone's post is that too much humidity is bad. With my method, I had not lifted the domes not once until they eventually came off. They went on for a week with vents fully closed. After one week, the vents were opened until sign of root. After which, the domes were removed. By then, mold would have taken hold. For the time being, I'll leverage smurfin'herb's suggestions and report back the results.

This question was spurred on by the article in this month's HT on taking clones. Seems the breeder layed out step by step instructions which follows closely to what I had previously mentioned (we have all heard/read of this method many times over). However, there was no mention of using domes. And there was a shot of the clone rack were clones were sitting under lights with nary a dome in sight. I also searched some threads here and some said they never use domes but did not elaborate on their methods. Did you not use domes in your systemic hydro cloner setup? Or did you not use domes for your clones and just let them sit the clone tray? I am hoping some of those old posters see this thread and chime in.

Anyways, good discussion so far. Let's keep it going.

 

[niggenz]

Have you tried opening up the dome a few times a day, just for a min or three? I always make sure to atleast give a breather once a day..... Trimming leaves back makes a huge difference too, especially when packing 'em in...

Heh, no. I have a day job as a Silicon Valley Coal Miner and don't have as much time as I would like to tend to my garden. I trim up the clones so they have 1 or 2 growth nodes at most, this is standard. But I have yet to clip the leaf tips as stated. I'll start doing that with the next cutting cycle. The consensus is that clipping leaf tips helps a great deal. But what I do do is "pack 'em in"!

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

You obviously do not need a dome if the area around the clones is 75%+ Humid ...... this is why some do not use them, others do and you still hear all sorts of results.

If I was setting up a large facility I would make a clone room that had plenty of open water and no need of individual domes, the clones do best IMO when given fresh, yet humid environments.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

If using a dome, it needs to be opened several times a day to exchange air. I have seen a bunch of clones get moldy if I dont open the lid. I cover them up the first couple days and open the dome. Then I start leaving the dome off more and more until I eventually dont cover them at all.

 

[B.C.]

Like I stated in my post, if ya leave the dome cracked with heat and air rising, it will cause an air exchange. No mold or fungus will grow in moving air.

How much easier could it be, it takes care of itself! I don't know what else ta say. lol BC

 

[phatnuggetz]

I use domes and have about 85-95 percent with the use of them. I think 1 week is way to long to leave it on though. I leave it on 24 hours straight after taking cuttings then over the course of a week ween them off the dome, I usually air out the dome for about 15 minutes a day twice a day. dont forget to wipe down your dome after each time you air out the dome, prevents to much water staying on your leaves and so no fungus ever attacks my clones

 

[FreezerBoy]

FB, have'nt you gone onto the medium's humidity, not the atmospheric ? I totally agreee about rockwool, saturated it is totally rubbish for roots.

If you have 15% atmospheric humidity I think Senor FB will be having some problems with well rooted plants, let alone cuttings ?

While 15% RH is on the low side, it's atmospheric. The key to the rockwool is complete saturation at all times. As weed is a delivery system for THC, water is the delivery system for oxygen.

Again, it's all Voodoo. Maybe this won't work for you but, I haven't lost a clone in years except when I try a new method. Why try new methods when you're cloning at 100% efficiency? While my bubbler has a 500% failure rate used "properly", combined with my old methods it's just as effective as my cloning tray in less than half the space.