Yellowing leaves.....6 days into flowering

[CapnMorgan]

I posted this in the indoor soil forum but got conflicting advice. Original Post:

Got several clones from a friend, but can't remember the name of the strain. Put two of them into flower 6 days ago and there is some yellowing going on starting at the bud sites.

This is my second attempt at flowering and I wound up badly nute burning and over watering the first set of bagseeds, which I chalked up to educational purposes. So I'm still a n00b and I'm being EXTREMELY cautious with these girls.

They're under a 600W hps. Temps normally are around 78* - 82* but it's been hot outside the last couple days and it's been 85* - 86* in there. Not much I can realistically do at the moment about that, but a cold front is on the way.

Since moving to 12/12, they're getting pureblend pro gro and pureblend pro bloom at about 1/3rd strength each, and have only gotten nutes twice in 12/12. 6 - 6.5 ph water otherwise. Soil gets dry and I'm watering about every other day at about 1 1/2 cups of water per plant.

Soil is ocean forest.

Any ideas? I might be being over cautious but I REALLY don't want to screw up any more plants.

How long has this problem been going on? 2-3 days
What STRAIN are you growing? Can't remember, but it's something tasty.
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)clone
What is the age of your plants? Unknown for sure, but 6-7 weeks may be an accurate guess
How Tall are the plants? about 16"
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? flowering
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) N/A
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3 gal
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) FoxFarms Ocean Forest
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* PureBlend Pro Gro and Pure Blend Pro Bloom, about 1/4 ounce each per gallon ***Would like advice if this is a proper amount****
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?Not sure
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? Not sure, I don't water until pots drain
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? Drops tester. I fill a 3 gallon cooler with water and get the ph down to 6 - 6.5
How often are you watering?every 2-3 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?3 days ago, every other watering we feed
What size bulb are you using? 600HPS
What is the distance to the canopy? 3 feet or so
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)30-45% past few weeks
What is the canopy temperature? 82-86
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)day 85, night 71
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 309 CFM
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? enough for them to get a constant slight breeze
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? no
Is your water HARD or SOFT? soft
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Tap
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? no




Any help is appreciated.

 

[MynameStitch]

this one is easy.... your not growing in a hydrotent are you?
You have sulfur or iron deficiency.... looks more like sulfur though.

Get some earthjuice microblast and mix it and let sit for 24 hours and then water your plants with it.

Your plants are lacking micronutrients everything else seems fine, otherwise you would have other issues with the leaves, your plants are just deficient due to low micronutrient levels with your feeding regimen.

Other than that your plant is perfectly green, I see no spotting or signs of pH issues, this is just a common deficiency going on. Your plants leaves are sticking straight out and happy and healthy besides the small problem you have.
Your water sounds like it is on the soft side........

Sulfur and iron are not very often issues it's sorta rare to see them so....
I am not 100% sure, but I think sulfur and iron are the ones when cured the color green comes back to the leaves that are affected....... I am sure yours is sulfur though cause sulfur affects the leaves and around the veins like magnesium does, but only on the top part of the plants and new growths.

 

[CapnMorgan]

this one is easy.... your not growing in a hydrotent are you?
You have sulfur or iron deficiency.... looks more like sulfur though.

Get some earthjuice microblast and mix it and let sit for 24 hours and then water your plants with it.

Your plants are lacking micronutrients everything else seems fine, otherwise you would have other issues with the leaves, your plants are just deficient due to low micronutrient levels with your feeding regimen.

Other than that your plant is perfectly green, I see no spotting or signs of pH issues, this is just a common deficiency going on.

I am not 100% sure, but think sulfur and iron are the ones when cured the color green comes back to the leaves that are affected....... I am sure yours is sulfur though cause sulfur affects the leaves and around the veins like magnesium does, but only on the top part of the plants and new growths.

Yup, I'm in a 4'x4' grow tent. Does that have something to do with it?

I'll stop on the way home today to get some of that.


Do you think my watering/feeding regimen is good, or maybe too conservative?


Would this be a sign of advanced stages of that deficiency? My last batch looked like this, but got even worse (although the pic is not of them)

 

[MynameStitch]

What is the brand of hydro tent? cause there is bad batches going on that have this probelm and nothing will fix it except removing them from the tent......

the off gassing is causing the plants stomas to close and photosynthesis stops and the plant will die if it is not removed. the Color will return to the plant if your last one looked like this and got worse and was in this tent, get rid of the tent cause that IS your problem. If you do a search in this forum you will find the same issue has happened to MANY people.

No, your feeding is perfect FFOF soil is rich in nutes so you have to be careful with how much you feed too. If the tent is the issue then you have a perfect feeding, if the issue is not caused by the tent then it's a sulfur deficiency going on.

Did your last plants die? Is this your flowering chamber? How long have you had your plants in the tents?

Edit: BBL got to get some lunch!

 

[CapnMorgan]

It's a local shop that I bought it from and they don't have it branded. A link to it is here:
http://www.texashydroponics.com/shop/product.php?productid=2843&cat=329&page=1


This is my flowering chamber and the thought that this being the problem really scares me. These plants have been in there for about a week now and have been great besides this yellowing issue.

My last batch is still in there just to see what will happen with them, but I'm not expecting to get anything out of them. They look horrible. All but the new growth leaves are yellow/brown and dried up & crispy. They've been in there about 35 days and they're barely flowering. I wish I could take pics but I'm not at home. Although I was doing things differently with them. I was mixing about twice as much nutes as I'm using now into the water and giving up to 1/2 gal every 3 days or so. So I'm sure I over did it....typical rookie.

 

[neuroherb]

If the tent doesn't have a brand is more than likely PVC because the ones that aren't are branded Homebox.

As Stitch says get rid of the tent your plants are exhibiting all the signs of tent problems, yellowing from the centre of the leaf out to the edges and quite thin stalks. Have you been losing leaves?

If they didn't completely veg in the tent you might turn it around as most of your plant still seems to be there, BUT it might not really turn round for you until the next full grow cycle and you won't see the full potential of he strain until then.

Hope it works out for you the folk here will get you through recovering them.

Edit: As strange as it may seem the outgassing has a direct affect on root development. I'm not botanist but it also seems to attack the inside substrate of the plant. Wish I had taken pics of the plants I disected along with the NFT root systems, but I forgot and even for a good cause I'm not using the tents again.

 

[MynameStitch]

Well, you can't always go by what the information on a product is, cause the other brand I forget the name of it, they imported there stuff overseas and was offgassing, but in the link it says it does not off gas.......

So you could do this to rule the tent as not the problem.....

get some micronutrients and feed them to your plants, mainly sulfur, but iron could be given too. THey should start to green up in about a week after giving it to them, you will need to give them micronutes everytime you water, just use small doses, if this fixes the problem your water does not have enough in it to supplement the plants which is why you would need to use it every watering.

Now if the tent is the problem, you should see them green up after removing them from the tent. Sometimes within 24 hours to 3 days you will see a difference.......

If you feed them micronutes and keep your feeding schedule the way it is and they don't green up then it is the tent that is causing the problem and you will have to remove it if you want to go to full harvest.


Hydro hut was the manufacturer that had the most problems with there huts, some home box brand was affected too, but not as badly as the hydro huts.

When you get home take a picture of what it looks like inside the tent get a few pictures from different angles so I can see the tent, because hydrohut's tents looked just like that one..... the only difference you could tell is by the inside weather it is or not.....

They don't list the brand, if it is hydro hut brand they don't want you to know it due to there recall they had, no one would order it, or not many would cause of the mass recall.

How long have you had this hut?

 

[neuroherb]

Stitch

A lot of other tents go by no brand such as those sold on ebay with the only tag being "Made in China 30% Polyamide".

3 out of 3 for the ones I know have all suffered it. Seriously the development of the same strain using the same tent frame but with a Mylar covering is like night & day. However a friend with the 3rd who changed mid flower has not yet seen the benefit.

Home Box suffering it is a new one as they claim no one has been affected. They also use PE instead of PVC because the problems of PVC. Ive posted a link to there scince explanation in another thread its worth a read.

 

[CapnMorgan]

I've had this hut for close to two months. The first batch is on about day 35 of flowering but they turned to trash.

External pics so that you can see a higher res.

Inside of tent:
http://uploader.ws/upload/200811/DSC_0214.jpg

One of the pathetic charlie brown christmas trees from the first batch (all bagseed btw). Keep in mind that I thought I was over doing the nutes/water, and I flushed them thoroughly 2 weeks ago and have given them nothing but 6.5 ph water since.
http://uploader.ws/upload/200811/DSC_0215.jpg

http://uploader.ws/upload/200811/DSC_0216.jpg


Think that the tent really did this to them? I'm going to work on getting them out of it tonight, but I have to figure out a way to light seal the closet I'm going to put them in.

 

[CapnMorgan]

I bought the micro nutes today. If the issue does turn out to be the tent is there any reason to use it otherwise?

 

[master shake]

if the tent is the problem you can try using plastic sheeting from lowes or HD, i think I found it in the painting section. Did you veg in that tent? Or did you move em in 6 days before the problems started? I almost got one of those tents from tx hydro, glad I didn't...

 

[neuroherb]

CapnMorgan

From my experience thats the tent issue you have there & they are not going to yield well at all. I didn't need the pics to open all the way to see it.

Your frame is better quality than mine but thats by the by as its the PVC & plasticisers in the cnavas that does the damage. Take the canvas off & cover the frame with mylar I just criss crossed it with two layers. I don't believe you will see the benefit until your next full grow start as by the time that damage has happend your roots are basically dead.

The other folk like Stitch here have better knowledge on growing so if you get your younger plants out they might help you save them.

 

[CapnMorgan]

So the question I have is, since they're only a week into flowering should I just re-veg them? If they still wouldn't yield much should I re-veg and make them mothers?


Thanks to everyone for all the help, I never would have guessed that this was the problem.



Oh and the no more than 10 posts in 24 hours on this board is pretty ridiculous.

 

[MynameStitch]

If the tent doesn't have a brand is more than likely PVC because the ones that aren't are branded Homebox.

As Stitch says get rid of the tent your plants are exhibiting all the signs of tent problems, yellowing from the centre of the leaf out to the edges and quite thin stalks. Have you been losing leaves?

If they didn't completely veg in the tent you might turn it around as most of your plant still seems to be there, BUT it might not really turn round for you until the next full grow cycle and you won't see the full potential of he strain until then.

Hope it works out for you the folk here will get you through recovering them.

Edit: As strange as it may seem the outgassing has a direct affect on root development. I'm not botanist but it also seems to attack the inside substrate of the plant. Wish I had taken pics of the plants I disected along with the NFT root systems, but I forgot and even for a good cause I'm not using the tents again.

Oh no, I fully agree with you there neuroherb, what my post was intended to say was even though they said no off gassing you can't believe what they always say lots of times it's more hype than anything else. Not to mention it also says made overseas and hydro huts were made over seas along with other brands that made hydro tents...... if they were made over seas like the hydro huts were, chances are any tent made over seas like this is going to have off gassing. Hydro hut said there was only a few places in China that made the stuff they needed for there tents...... many other companies buy the same material for these tents that is not hydro hut and like you said don't even have a brand name so they may as well just be called hydro hut cause they all off gass if they are made overseas!


I fully believe this problem is caused by the tent he is growing in rather then lack of micronutes..... cause he had them in flowering in here as it's his flowering chamber....

I think they do that to new members cause I have way more than 10 posts in 24 hour period......

Capn morgan: see if you can get them to flower in a closet or some other place you can put them into to flower them out, if not then you will have to reveg them they will revert back to veg in about 3 to 5 days and fully veg by a weeks time or a little longer.

 

[neuroherb]

Hi Stitch

Didn't think you were getting at my answer just frm the year I have had with these tents going through every feasible solution from nutes to bad compost or mis managed res tanks and talking to members on other answers etc... these tents are obviously something I have an opinion on. Personaly I wouldn't trust a one of them. But as for general knoweledge on everything micronutrients I think yourself, stinkyattic & the other infirmary regs are the ones with the info to help anyone try a recovery.

CapnMorgan

Three plants like what your flowering looks like in an NFT tank produced 5 grams when previously it produced 16 ounces. Only you can decide whether the time trouble & strain is worth pursuing with or if you would be better to cut your losses and start again.

 

[CapnMorgan]

You guys are outstanding. I never would have figured this out on my own and probably would have gotten frustrated and given up growing all together.


I got everything moved into a closet but now I have to figure out a way to light seal it and allow for an air intake hole. I'll get it figured out. I'm going to toss the first batch plants and get a few of my other clones ready to get into the flowering closet soon.

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya neuro, I agree with you I don't trust them tents either cause they are nothing but trouble.

Your tossing the plants you had in your flowering chamber?????? They can recover just keep them out of those tents!

 

[neuroherb]

Ive always found Mylar to be good in closets or at least the black & white stuff I use. I know where your coming from on the felt like giving up as I went from doing two very good grows at the start to not being able to get an ounce from six tanks. Your interest will be resurgent as you stop having this extra issue which you can't see except by damage or do anything about.

Have a read of this link yes its home box but as I said to stitch I wouldn't even use theirs. However from a lot of searching it is the best start off I have found for a scientific answer to what causes the problem. Also its not just your plants life it affects but your OWN and anybody who is the room with the tent.

http://www.homebox.net/dhtml/nopvc.php

I am quite into consumer rights etc... if it was legal for the plants I was growing I would have these companies in court AND I REALLY hope one at least of the medical state/province growers who have had the problem get these folk as for me its been more than a reasonable sum of money buying the tents & then paying for things to try and solve the problems.

 

[neuroherb]

Hi Stitch

Your also at the advantage being doing it a while & know how to create a grow room. These things have been selling like hot cakes to newbies like myself as it seems the perfect way to get a nice indoor set-up without damaging a property.

If we could collate all the past infirmary threads where the symptoms were displayed AND you managed to help the person trough to a very much reduced end grow I think we would find it affects more than 70% of all PVC based tents.

Just had a look at another thread where I commented I may sound like a broken record on the topic, but I think it is worth adding the questions Do you use a tent? and Have you ever managed a sucessful grow in the tent? to your standard form.

 

[MynameStitch]

Hey neuro,nice read, thanks for posting that like!

I would be glad to add that to the list of questions as it has become a huge problem and your right, newer growers who want to grow weather it's rec use or a small medical grow it's very appealing to a new grower since it has all stuff in one package and very easy to come by.

So I am going to add it to my thread as soon as 10k unlocks it.
Another thing, I think a thread needs to be made about this explaining why there plants are having this issue and what to do about it.

Neuro you know the technical stuff about why it is occurring and as to why this problem is going on, why don't you make the thread and see if 10k will sticky it?

Ya, a long time ago when someone made a thread and people were putting all there ideas as to what had happened and I know a lot about plants mechinisam and I thought to myself as to why this is happening and figured it was out gassing that was causing this problem......