Second Grow - Help!?

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Hey fellow ICMAG users. Ive never posted before but i have read through alot on this site. I had a previous grow under a 600w using soil and custom ferts sourced at a local shop and came out with ok results. It was a learning experience thats for sure. This second time around I am aiming a bit higher.

Setup:

2 600w HPS Lights over a Ebb and Flo 4x8 table/res with approx 512, 2" or 3" clones.

I am using the AN Sensi A+B ferts
I have between 40-60% humidity
Temps are: 23 degrees Celsius lights on 18 Celsius lights off (not sure what temps/humidity will be with another light) NO co2

My question is:

I know that with more light, I will get better buds, density, quality, etc. BUT my goals are to achieve 7 grams a clone. Will I achieve my goal with the current lighting, or should I add another 600w? Ideally I would like 10 grams per clone. If I will already meet my goal or you think I will achieve 10g per clone at least let me know! (Yes, I understand plant number laws and realize my risk, please dont post saying OMG SO MANY plant #s) Thanks for all your help!

 

[globel]

i dont see 512 x 7 grams comming from 2 600's.. what medium are you growing in? slabs with 1 inch cubes?

 

[crzygirl]

That would be fabulous if I could have 512 plants

 

[ourcee]

well I consider the benchmark of a grower that has their shit dialed in and a decent yeilding strain to get 1 gram per watt in a flat garden.

I REALLY dont see you being able to successfully even FIT 500 of them in a 4x8. sure they might fit as a 3" clone but whats gonna happen 2 months down the line?

MJ LOVES light, its a full sun plant, you've got 37.5 watts per sq foot, aka not optimum. The footprint of a 600 (for MJ) is roughly 3'x3' so your outer buds wont be as dense or large as the center ones, however they will still produce something. I personally like to have around 60+ watts per sq foot minimum.

those temps should suffice, make sure that the reservoir isnt getting too warm. 68/69 fahrenheit (20/21 celsius) is optimum for the rez however in ebb/flow you have a little leeway so you should be alright. A lil hygrozyme (root enzymes) or something similar would probably not hurt.

I honestly dont even think you can fit 200 in unless your skimping on container size, container size=root size, root size=top growth (everything including bud) size.

A plant has a root system that can maintain its canopy.

for instance a plant that was vegetatively grown for 2 months, then severely trimmed back on the top for clones, however leaving the '2 months worth' of roots, the plant will put a lot more energy towards refilling the canopy then in producing new roots.

So if you dont have adequate room for the roots, you can stunt the growth of the top and that will ultimately hurt your production/quality.

1200 watts at .75 grams per watt (still a quality pull)=~2 lbs

so if you could fit 200 in there, that'd be 4.5 grams per plant.

there is no way in HELL you will pull 10g per clone with 200 clones under 1200watts of lighting. Thats ~4.5 lbs. If you can pull that off, you will have worshippers. I will be one of them

soooo .75 grams per watt. if you aim for this, as your second grow... I'll say this, its POSSIBLE, but is it likely? I doubt it. We all set little 'goal' numbers in our head, however its best to aim high and expect low. You'll never be dissapointed that way.

adding a 3rd 600 would definitely increase your yeild, at .75 gpw thats ~3 lbs or 6.7g per clone (if there are 200)

 

[Luckygreenhand]

what was your yield for first with plants/watts/gs?

 

[[email protected]]

hey thanks for your replies guys. i know my numbers are a bit ridiculous but ive seen other peoples grows who use around the same amount of lighting, and i figured if i use more plant #s and smaller plants i could get a higher gpw. my yield first run was 6 2 gal buckets (homemade dwc) and i got around 2 lbs but they were about 4ft each when they were done and i felt that i wasnt using my space well enough

so after pondering a little last night i found a thread where someone used 5 plants looks like 2-4 gal buckets but it was dwc and he used a screen and got 700 grams dry. i cant find the thread right now but he had to have been using more than 1 600w right? would it be better for me to just use 128 plants in the 4x8. 128 so that the screen fills up fast and i could put 4 lights over the table (600w).

 

[ourcee]

128 plants in a 4x8 sounds definitely doable. you obviously wont have 4 ft trees at the end though.

the highest yeilds in a flat garden on a ebb/flow table will come from a sea of green or using a net/trellis and having it be ScrOG (screen of green)

personally my opinion, if you are using 600 watters a screen will probably give you bigger yeilds easier. Reason being is because a 600 has less 'penetration' through the canopy than a 1000watter does and an even canopy=equal buds=all colas and no larfy popcorn crap. therefore a 600 is ideal for ScrOG.

you COULD throw 4 600 watters over that but the difference between 4 and 3 wouldnt be as much as the difference between 2 and 3 (lights).

I dont know if you've looked into light movers, but using those over ebb/flow tables seems to work well. Increases the 'amount' of light usable for the plants, different angles, more coverage... all without adding more wattage (except for the motor to power the track obviously).

DWC is kinda different in that the roots can just amass in the bucket, in a flood table the roots are actually growing into a substrate. i.e. you need adequate root room whereas in a dwc bucket you can literally pull a "plug" of roots out of the bucket, as long as they have adequate air bein pumped in there.

a lot of people use 5 gal buckets for DWC. I do that for my mothers and couldnt be happier. they dont fluctuate in pH too severely (I use GH nutes and they have been stable for me for years so I stick with what I know) and offer incredibly fast growth biglaugh: I need it for my clones)

I'm working on some pretty interesting vertical stuff at the moment, however I have plans for some tables in the future, I've researched and all that fun stuff and if I were doing a table run, this is what I'd do.

a 3'x6' table with two 600w over it on a light rail (fairly short travel length in this setup, however it'd help with the angles and light penetration). I'm unsure of the exact numbers that each table can hold however I'd give them a big enough container for a short vegetative cycle. Enough volume for the roots to grow into so that I can fill up the screen with an INSANE amount of budsites.

I see so many people just literally throw a trellis over their plants and just bend one branch under it, I really dont get this.. whats the point? I see a ScrOG and I want to literally have a budsite every two square inches or so... all perfectly flat. That will equivilate into a 3'x6' "mattress" of bud just a layer of colas over the ENTIRE table, its quite a sight to see.

This gives me only 1200w per table however I myself dont trip out over numbers so I can run multiple tables and not be shitting myself every time a helicopter flies in the area (funny story about an old partner actually... )

Being your second grow. Obviously we all come from different backgrounds with different experiences, my only advice regarding expectations is this. Obviously you wanna handle some weight, if you promise people something at a certain time or a certain amount, youre goin down a bad road. A lot of people dont realize that it isnt that hard to put 2 and 2 together.

Given that you've done and are in the process of doing your research, I applaud you, youre on the right track in that department.

Dont expect anything weight wise though, when it comes through, it comes through and that is how much and the quality you have.

There are too many "what ifs" to be promising anything (not saying you are, just making a statement), and I ony mention that because being a 2nd grow, believe me, there are a LOT of "what ifs" that can happen.

take your time, go slower, resist the urge to just go balls to the wall and you will PROBABLY go further in the long run.

Learn the mechanics of it all, the biologics of it all. Then learn some more.

good luck and let us know how it goes!


edit: my grammar sucks

 

[[email protected]]

(SORRY FOR CAPS, I SPILLED COKE ON MY KEYBOARD AND IT IS STUCK FOR NOW) THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY OC ITS VERY INFORMATIVE. I KNOW I WONT END UP WITH 4FT TREES BUT....I AM TRYING TO FILL THE 4X8 SCREEN AND GET AS MANY SITES JUST AS YOU DESCRIBE...A FLAT CANOPY. WHICH IS WHY MY INITIAL IDEA WAS FOR HIGHER PLANT NUMBERS AND SMALLER ACHIEVED AMOUNTS PER PLANT. BUT THE SCREEN IDEA USES LESS PLANTS AND A BETTER USE OF THE PLANT ITSELF FOR BETTER LIGHT DISTRIBUTION.


I AM STAYING AWAY FROM 1000W BECAUSE OF THE HEAT AND I DONT WANT AS SEVERE COOLING ISSUES AS I WOULD STILL USE 2 1000WS FOR THE AREA.


FOR THE SPACE I AM GOING TO USE 3 600W AND RUN MULTIPLE TABLES. I WANT TO DIAL IN THE SET UP FOR ONE TABLE THEN REPRODUCE THAT.

FOR LIGHT MOVERS, I CANT REALLY FIND ANY INFORMATION ON THEM SPECIFICS OR A GOOD BRAND/MAKE/MODEL TO BUY, ANY RECOMMENDATIONS?

WOULD YOU RECOMMEND DOING DWC 5GAL BUCKETS? HOW MANY PLANTS DO YOU THINK I WOULD NEED TO FILL THE SCREEN PROPERLY, SO THAT I HAVE A BUD SITE EVERY 2"

I CONSIDERED A VERTICAL SCREEN GROW. A VERTICAL SETUP FOR 1000W LIGHTS 3 IN A DAISY CHAIN. THEN A CYLINDRICAL SCREEN AROUND IT. (THE DIAMETER ALLOWING THE LIGHT TO BE AT LEAST 1 FT AWAY, 360 DEGREES.

HOW LONG DO YOU THINK I SHOULD VEG THEM FOR? TO FILL THE SCREEN. 8", 10", 12"? I KNOW THEY DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THEIR HEIGHT.



DO YOU HAVE A VIDEO OR KNOW OF A THREAD THAT SHOWS HOW TO PROPERLY SCROG? IVE LOOKED AND MOST JUST BEND THE BRANCHES UNDER THE SCREEN AND IT DOESNT REALLY SEEM AS EFFECTIVE AS DOING IT WITH A METHOD.



I DONT TRIP EITHER



YEAH I HEAR YOU ON THAT. I AM JUST TRYING TO OPTIMIZE THIS GROW, THE FIRST WAS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE NOW I HAVE LOOKED AT QUITE A FEW WAYS TO OPTIMIZE WHAT I AM DOING TO BECOME A BETTER GROWER. TRIAL AND ERROR, THE WAY OF LIFE.



THANKS AGAIN