is it legal for teacher to search a student
- Thread starter Shifer
- Start date
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basement420
Now I am definitely not an expert on this subject but how old is your son? I feel that if he is a obviously a minor, they should have no right to search him or question him without parental permission. Also why are THEY(the school) searching your child? isn't that a job for the police?
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Gossamer
Depends on the circumstances. But generally, no. A teacher has no right to even touch a minor.
It is now beyond dispute that "the Federal Constitution, by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment, prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures by state officers." Equally indisputable is the proposition that the Fourteenth Amendment protects the rights of students against encroachment by public school officials. These two propositions -- that the Fourth Amendment applies to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment, and that the actions of public school officials are subject to the limits placed on state action by the Fourteenth Amendment -- might appear sufficient to answer the suggestion that the Fourth Amendment does not proscribe unreasonable searches by school officials. On reargument, however, the State of New Jersey has argued that the history of the Fourth Amendment indicates that the Amendment was intended to regulate only searches and seizures carried out by law enforcement officers; accordingly, although public school officials are concededly state agents for purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Fourth Amendment creates no rights enforceable against them.
New Jersey VS TLO
Student Searches
It is now beyond dispute that "the Federal Constitution, by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment, prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures by state officers." Equally indisputable is the proposition that the Fourteenth Amendment protects the rights of students against encroachment by public school officials. These two propositions -- that the Fourth Amendment applies to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment, and that the actions of public school officials are subject to the limits placed on state action by the Fourteenth Amendment -- might appear sufficient to answer the suggestion that the Fourth Amendment does not proscribe unreasonable searches by school officials. On reargument, however, the State of New Jersey has argued that the history of the Fourth Amendment indicates that the Amendment was intended to regulate only searches and seizures carried out by law enforcement officers; accordingly, although public school officials are concededly state agents for purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Fourth Amendment creates no rights enforceable against them.
New Jersey VS TLO
Student Searches
S
srk
When I was a young lad. In middle school I got pulled out of class. In the office a cop and the principle was waiting for me. I was searched for pot. My dad came to school the next day and flipped out. I didn't have anything but they confiscated my pager. The good ol' days. They should have called my parents. As they should have called you.
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Greyskull
dude, you need to ask Stoned Teacher if you want the inside 411.
edit:shit you only have 22 posts... will pm him for you and direct him to thread.
edit:shit you only have 22 posts... will pm him for you and direct him to thread.
Laws vary from state to state, but if your son was caught smoking (or even in possession of ANYTHING banned by the School District ) then the school district can search him. In most States, however a teacher is NOT authorized to require or conduct a search. Typically, because of the laws involved, administrators must require the search, which is then conducted by either them and/or security officers. Searches should be in front of another adult witness - etc. etc.
The law is more like in an airport than in regular public locations(ie - fewer rights in exchange for public safety).
I hope this helps. Also some school district include various local policies,in their student/parent handbook that may allow searches for other reasons. In most schools, students and parents must sign saying they have read, recieved, and are responsible for all information in the handbook.
The law is more like in an airport than in regular public locations(ie - fewer rights in exchange for public safety).
I hope this helps. Also some school district include various local policies,in their student/parent handbook that may allow searches for other reasons. In most schools, students and parents must sign saying they have read, recieved, and are responsible for all information in the handbook.
S
stoned teacher
Thanks for thinking I'd have something to say...Yeah I'm an asshole I know...
Based on the original post, I don't quite get exactly what happened???
So shifter whats the beef..your son got smoking on school property of course they searched him..he got caught smoking.....are you more concerned with the school searching your student or that fact that your son smokes....on school property? The search was totally reasonable given that he got caught smoking...
Actually whyme2 said it very well...once a student has possessed anything banned on school property they can require a search...but it's not gonna be a teacher it's gonna be admin....or cops if it's that kinda deal (many high schools have cops in em now)...
NJ vs TLO is only really relevant if charges are going to be pressed, if anything found is admissable as evidence....the original post showed no indication that anything like this happened....sounds like the kid got busted smoking and they checked him....
Egh I'm not sure if i wanna shoptalk, but going into the saying a teacher ought not lay a hand on a student...what a buncha crap..lotsa people that say that have great lawyers too...come keep 2000 diverse kids from all walks of life.. orderly and safe, in class, learning boring shit, ...right don't touch em when the asshole gets in your face and tells you to fuck off and be sure to let the dumbass know he did a good job when he reads a paragraph....all without touching a kid ......yeah do that and get back to me.
Based on the original post, I don't quite get exactly what happened???
So shifter whats the beef..your son got smoking on school property of course they searched him..he got caught smoking.....are you more concerned with the school searching your student or that fact that your son smokes....on school property? The search was totally reasonable given that he got caught smoking...
Actually whyme2 said it very well...once a student has possessed anything banned on school property they can require a search...but it's not gonna be a teacher it's gonna be admin....or cops if it's that kinda deal (many high schools have cops in em now)...
NJ vs TLO is only really relevant if charges are going to be pressed, if anything found is admissable as evidence....the original post showed no indication that anything like this happened....sounds like the kid got busted smoking and they checked him....
Egh I'm not sure if i wanna shoptalk, but going into the saying a teacher ought not lay a hand on a student...what a buncha crap..lotsa people that say that have great lawyers too...come keep 2000 diverse kids from all walks of life.. orderly and safe, in class, learning boring shit, ...right don't touch em when the asshole gets in your face and tells you to fuck off and be sure to let the dumbass know he did a good job when he reads a paragraph....all without touching a kid ......yeah do that and get back to me.
firsttimegrower
Member
actually i was given paperwork just 2 weeks ago that suspicion of possesion has to be handled by an administrator or police. with the parent notified first. but any vehicle,locker,classroom etcetc may be searched without permission and that a random drug sniffing dog hit will be grounds for a search that dogs may be used at anytime to smell any property but not any person. the rules definately are much more strict when it comes to a persons body being searched
trademanny
Member
I agree with stoned teacher -- you need to whoop ur kid's ass for smoking at school and thank the teacher for notifying you.
All this crap about parents worrying that their precious little snowflake's rights have been violated is what causes kids to get their 'holier than thou' complex that today's youth has.
All this crap about parents worrying that their precious little snowflake's rights have been violated is what causes kids to get their 'holier than thou' complex that today's youth has.
dude06version
Member
i was watching that show on court tv the principles office i think its called.. and one principal offered paddlings instead of detention..if i had kids, i wouldnt want some grown man paddling my teen daughter on the ass..thats kinda weird that parents allow that, specially nowadays with all the perverts that are becoming teachers...
i feel compelled to jump in and comment just because of the background I've had. my mother is a retired teacher of approximately 30 years service.. teaching in a variety of settings low income, high proportion of kids in ESL, the gamut... with that said i wouldn't nor do i believe she would say that touching a student forcefully or to search them is a valid action. Perhaps it is that we live in the north, where paddling and the like went out 50 years ago.
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stoned teacher
I've never spoken of or advocated paddling or beating (unless self defense)......now if the female student graduates, comes and sees me in a few years. well then (j/k)
The search was legal if it was by administrators...Your mom is mistaken if she thinks an administrator can't/shouldn't search a student after being caught with cigs...
Further comments in response to the guy who brought up the blanket statement about not touching a kid....This teaches kids to whine if you touch them on the shoulder because the did well and to try to get away with more because "you can't lay a hand on me"....
I've been told I'm going to be sued at least once a year by some kid after being touched (not angrily or violently)...andhad another kid angrily in my face poking at me, daring me to touch him because as he said in his words "touch me and yo money is mine".... Your darn right I restrained the fucker too....
The newest trend in our school is breaking rules right out in front of teachers, and when they try to hold you accountable, running away.... Well in my hallway, your darned right we get in front of the students and if they run into us...there's your contact....Before we did this it was rampant, as it still is in other sections of the school.....
I've broken up over a fight a year since I've been at the school I'm at....half of them have been kids bigger than me. I've seen teachers try to break up a fight and have a kid (who wasn't in the original fight) take a cheap shot at a teacher in the process, almost as if the original fight was a setup to ge a teacher in there... And yes not to act or be like a badass, but if you're a male teacher teaching where I teach, the kids definately respect you more if they know you are "athletically" competent to break up a fight or defend yourself....
If some of these parents would lay a hand on their kids when they do wrong instead of defending them, I wouldn't be in these situations nearly as much.
Bottom line...we got almost 2k kids to teach, protect, and keep in oder and the taxpayers /parents deserve that we do so....
The search was legal if it was by administrators...Your mom is mistaken if she thinks an administrator can't/shouldn't search a student after being caught with cigs...
Further comments in response to the guy who brought up the blanket statement about not touching a kid....This teaches kids to whine if you touch them on the shoulder because the did well and to try to get away with more because "you can't lay a hand on me"....
I've been told I'm going to be sued at least once a year by some kid after being touched (not angrily or violently)...andhad another kid angrily in my face poking at me, daring me to touch him because as he said in his words "touch me and yo money is mine".... Your darn right I restrained the fucker too....
The newest trend in our school is breaking rules right out in front of teachers, and when they try to hold you accountable, running away.... Well in my hallway, your darned right we get in front of the students and if they run into us...there's your contact....Before we did this it was rampant, as it still is in other sections of the school.....
I've broken up over a fight a year since I've been at the school I'm at....half of them have been kids bigger than me. I've seen teachers try to break up a fight and have a kid (who wasn't in the original fight) take a cheap shot at a teacher in the process, almost as if the original fight was a setup to ge a teacher in there... And yes not to act or be like a badass, but if you're a male teacher teaching where I teach, the kids definately respect you more if they know you are "athletically" competent to break up a fight or defend yourself....
If some of these parents would lay a hand on their kids when they do wrong instead of defending them, I wouldn't be in these situations nearly as much.
Bottom line...we got almost 2k kids to teach, protect, and keep in oder and the taxpayers /parents deserve that we do so....
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Greyskull
I'm glad you chimed in here Teach. Your point of view is very refreshing.
More parents need to teach & practice responsibility & accountablity to thier kids.
More parents need to teach & practice responsibility & accountablity to thier kids.
S
stoned teacher
dude06version said:
Please send me pics of your teen daughter
just kidding
my comments arent directed towards you teacher.. nor did i mention an administrator.. i didnt define the person confronting the student though i implied it to be the teacher.
perhaps my mother just likes to protect herself from any legal recourse.
keep in mind what we can do legally and should do morally/ethically are different.
you might think, well then the kids can just walk all over her.. but in reality there are a multitude of tactics for handling such situations. depends upon the kids right? and the rapport you have with them. so many variables really.. what age etc. lets just say you don't have to get physical unless its a very extreme situation
perhaps my mother just likes to protect herself from any legal recourse.
keep in mind what we can do legally and should do morally/ethically are different.
you might think, well then the kids can just walk all over her.. but in reality there are a multitude of tactics for handling such situations. depends upon the kids right? and the rapport you have with them. so many variables really.. what age etc. lets just say you don't have to get physical unless its a very extreme situation
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Weedman Herb
Well Shifer has been back to the site since posting this thread ... I'm kind of curious to see their response to the responses ... maybe they no longer want to address this issue ?
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"holier than thou" complex
brilliant
brilliant
My son got caught once with a few buds on him and I always told him NEVER to bring it to school anyways, this was last year and yes they have ever right to search him on school campus and even after school untill he reaches your home and is under your care, the school rules apply and they are allowed to do searches and with a officer there same gender of course STRIP searches but its rare.
laidbackgreen
Member
Shifer said:
I find it funny that the "parent" quoted the son as to saying shit to a teacher and this is no big deal. I would woop the shit outta my kids for saying this to a teacher not to mention getting caught with mj on school grounds.
Shifer I just gotta say this if you are worried about trying to sue the school system and not straighten out your kid, well you my friend are a moron and a shit ass parent.
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