AK47 Seedling Issues in Coco....HELP

[RamCTD1027]

A few of my AK47 seedlings are showing some issues and I was looking for some help as to what the problem is..

Seeds were germinated in Canna Coco flushed with tap water of EC 0.25 and pHed to 5.8. All seeds germed and were fed with pHed tap water and 4ml/gal Rhizotonic for the first seven days and have been fed Canna Coco A&B at 2.5ml/gal and 6ml/gal Rhizotonic for the past two days. Temps in the room are around 70F and temps at the base of the plants are at 75F. Humidity at the base of the plants is around 75%. They are under 24/7 light schedule right now under 96watts of 6500k HO T5 lamps. I just finished lightproofing the room and would like to veg under 18/6. When would be the best time to make the switch??

Anyway, here are some pics. My camera is broken and I had to use my girls so its hard to get a good pic. Can you see the spots on the plant in the first two pics?? How do things look?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ram

 

[3dDream]

I like a ph of 6.0 for coco. If you meter is off you are usually ok at 6. Are you keeping the coco nice and moist? Be sure to get some runoff. These plants are so small they wont need much water, but the coco should not be allowed to dry out. Conversely you can't over water coco unless you don't give the plants any time to dry up a little. If you see the light tan at the top most times you need to water them.

Good luck.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Thanks for the reply 3D.

I have been keeping the pH of anything I give the plants between 5.8 and 6.0. For the first week, the plants were getting anywhere from 20-40ml of pHed tap water with 4ml/gal Rhizotonic everyday. Now they are getting watered with the mix I mentioned above daily until runoff. Can anyone tell what the issue is? Why are they off to such a slow start? Thanks for the help.

 

[dirkdaddy]

do you need to start using the canna coco a+b so early? I am not familiar with the nutes but I don't think any seedlings less than 2 weeks old would need any ferts of any kind. and even under 4 weeks they shouldn't need a whole ton. maybe cut out the nutes and see how they respond; it certainly won't hurt them.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

lay off the rhizotonic mate, let them establish with just a very weak A+B, pHed, there have been loads of problems here with people overdoing that stuff, I grew many great crops in Coco without it for years.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Thanks for the replies thus far....

dirkdaddy-
I did a lot of research into coco as well as Canna products before I started this grow as it is my first grow in coco. From what I read on forums and on Canna's website, it is recommended that the coco be flushed with a mild nute solution even before you introduce any plants as it is an inert medium. From the looks of the plants, it doesnt seem like nute burn and they were showing these signs even before I started to feed with nutes. I'm actually hoping the mild nutes will help the plants.

Chaos-
Thanks for the input about the Rhizotonic. The only reason I started to use it so early is I read a thread on this site where MANY MANY informative people recommended it's use (i.e. bergerbuddy, Hazy, Bonecarver, etc). Next feed, I will just mix up a mild pHed solution of tap water and Canna A&B and see what happens.


Again, thanks for all the replies so far. Any more help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Hi Ram,

Yes, I bought some not that long ago, partly because I was "reminded about it" by some of the good people you mention, I like it for clones, but would not use it on more sensitive seedlings.

I think you have got it right about giving [mild] feed before using, as well as at the start, although, personally I would start Canna A+B at 1ml/gal and raise it [all being well] gently over 2 weeks to 5ml/gal .... that is 0.2ml/Litre up to 1ml/Litre for metric people.

I stick to a rule of never adding any additives over 50% of the basic A+B, so now, I am running a "bloom mix" of A+B @ 1ml/L + 0.5ml/L PK boost for flowering plants. For rooting cuttings I run between 0.5ml/L A+B + 0.25ml/L Rhizotonic up to 1ml/L A+B + 0.5ml/L Rhizotonic when they are up and running.

Good luck, SS AK 47 is a great plant

 

[tans66]

Personally I add no ferts or additives until second set of leaves at least.Then only at 1/4 recommanded dose.Seeds/seedlings have there own built in food store to get them by till the ol tap root establishes itself.
Maybe flush,then weak 1/5,1/4 fert,water every 2-4 days (depending on room conditions)
At this stage overfertilizing & overwatering are ur main concerns.Keeping soil/medium soaked not desirable.Allowing top section of medium to dry sends tap root deeper = health.

 

[Rifman]

Personally I add no ferts or additives until second set of leaves at least.Then only at 1/4 recommanded dose.Seeds/seedlings have there own built in food store to get them by till the ol tap root establishes itself.
Maybe flush,then weak 1/5,1/4 fert,water every 2-4 days (depending on room conditions)
At this stage overfertilizing & overwatering are ur main concerns.Keeping soil/medium soaked not desirable.Allowing top section of medium to dry sends tap root deeper = health.

what he said!

 

[RamCTD1027]

I took some better shots of the affected plants. Two of the 10 germed seeds are showing these same issues, one more than the others. Any help would be greatly appreciated.







What do you think this could be?

 

[wygram]

lower the canna a+b or cut it entirely for now... small seedlings like that don't need much food yet... rhizo is ok

your biggest problem however is overwatering... coco is hard to overwater, not impossible... and with little root systems on these plants in big cups they are getting drowned... you want to water till runoff when they are bigger... for now a little drier won't hurt and will promote root system growth

 

[RamCTD1027]

Thanks to everyone who has provided some help/insight!!

Let me give a brief update on how the seedlings are doing. I recalibrated my meter a few days ago only to find out that my tap water has an EC=0.1 (50ppm@.5, 70ppm@.7) so I have been feeding the seedlings for the past three days with tap water and a little cal-mag to an EC=.45 (225ppm@.5) with a pH of 5.8. I have been checking the run-off and the average run-off has been EC .53 (265ppm@.5) with an average pH of 5.87.

The seedlings are growing very slowly; however, they are growing so I cant complain. A few of the seedlings are still showing the same issues and the healthy ones are starting to lighten in color/showing possible signs of Mg def. Right now, the temps in the room are around 74F and the humidity is around 60%. I am running the lights 24/7. Should I switch the lights to 18/6 or should I continue at 24/7 for a little more time?

Take a look at the seedlings. Let me know what you think.

 

[Luckygreenhand]

I have a friend whose plants looked similar to these and i think this will help me too!
Good luck to you ram!!

 

[Hammerhead]

stop feeding them. PH seems low to me . Babys dont need any feedings.

 

[GDS StonerBoy]

I had these same problems when i first popped seeds in coco. Stop feeding for now and give plain ph'd tap water for a feeding or two. I water my young seedlings every other day until they establish a big enough root system to get watered every day. The ph does seem to be a bit off as well, maybe you should test your meter.

But after they are established again then work your way up with the feedings starting from 1ml A+B - 5ml A+B. Do it gradually every couple of waterings raise it up 1ml until you reach your plants limit. I dont think any strain will want more than 8ml's of canna coco A+B per gal but i think zoo has said he had a couple go up to 10ml's but i'm not sure.

 

[Navigator330]

I used coco for a long time, there was always alot of salts in them. Try giving a real good flush. If that doesnt help then try a calcium & Mg supplement. If those dont help, im stumped. I never had it get like that, of course i switched to FFOF and have not looked back!
Good luck!

 

[stihgnobevoli]

i dont grow in coco or anything but having grown lots of plants in hot soil i can see this is nute burn. mutated slow growth, burnts edges crispy dried out brown black gold spots. i bet if you take a dried out piece of the end of one of your leaves and chew it it will taste like salt.

i suggest flushing with plain tap water and checking the ph of the runoff. seedlings dont need any nutes despite anything it says on the bottle. they have enough energy stored in the cotyledons to sustain growth at the very least a week with no nutes at all in inert medium. when the cotyledons start to yellow up and dry out is when you know you need to start feeding.

my 2cents take it or leave it.