Teen's New Name Is "CutoutDissection.com"

[PazVerdeRadical]

Ok, I'm going to make it a little harder for you guys. I'm going to give you a definition to explain what I mean when I say conscience of itself. "the capacity to think about, and therefore conceptualize, one's own thoughts"

I don't believe your dog or cat meets this requirement.

shit, if we go by that standard, i seriously doubt more than 10 or 5 percent of humans can be said to have what is required of them to be considered to have consciousness of themselves. seriously...

 

[ksac]

shit, if we go by that standard, i seriously doubt more than 10 or 5 percent of humans can be said to have what is required of them to be considered to have consciousness of themselves. seriously...

Sad, but possibly true

But seriously, everyone has the ability to conceptualize their own thoughts, whether they do or not is another story.

 

[Stoner4Life]

Ok, I'm going to make it a little harder for you guys. I'm going to give you a definition to explain what I mean when I say conscience of itself. "the capacity to think about, and therefore conceptualize, one's own thoughts"

I don't believe your dog or cat meets this requirement.

3 of us sitting at a round table playing cards the fourth seat occupied by my friends Boston terrier. I'm facing the window/driveway and facing one friend as well, the dog 'Dick' is to my left. Someone had set a chunk of cheese on the table in front of Dick but nobody would allow him to snap it up, he sat there and made several attempts to get it when he thought we were engrossed in conversation or distracted with laughter ~ we were always able to stop him with a simple, "No!" This had gone on for close to ten minutes and all was quiet for a bit when suddenly Dick looked to his left out the window & gave his alarming 'someone's coming down the driveway' bark and so everybody turned to look out the window; the only thing that Dick WASN'T able to conceptualize was the fact that I had to look right past him to see the driveway & it was me that caught him going for that cheese as soon as he saw the others turn their heads....... "NO!" ~ he was foiled again.

Dick plotted his very move, he timed it perfectly too, he thought it through as to what would provide enough of a distraction to get us all to turn away from that piece of cheese he knew we were guarding as a game. that friggin' distraction move was so clever, so cunning that I'd instantly accepted Dick as one of the gang, not the outcast the little non-hunting bugger had always been.

Now if you're talking about cats or dogs contemplating 'who they are & where they're going' in life you might be reluctant to accept that they likely know better than we do what their mission here on earth is. no matter what man thinks he knows or is able to intellectualize of life, we are the ones who're confused, animals even our pets are not.

 

[NOKUY]

3 of us sitting at a round table playing cards the fourth seat occupied by my friends Boston terrier. I'm facing the window/driveway and facing one friend as well, the dog 'Dick' is to my left. Someone had set a chunk of cheese on the table in front of Dick but nobody would allow him to snap it up, he sat there and made several attempts to get it when he thought we were engrossed in conversation or distracted with laughter ~ we were always able to stop him with a simple, "No!" This had gone on for close to ten minutes and all was quiet for a bit when suddenly Dick looked to his left out the window & gave his alarming 'someone's coming down the driveway' bark and so everybody turned to look out the window; the only thing that Dick WASN'T able to conceptualize was the fact that I had to look right past him to see the driveway & it was me that caught him going for that cheese as soon as he saw the others turn their heads....... "NO!" ~ he was foiled again.

Dick plotted his very move, he timed it perfectly too, he thought it through as to what would provide enough of a distraction to get us all to turn away from that piece of cheese he knew we were guarding as a game. that friggin' distraction move was so clever, so cunning that I'd instantly accepted Dick as one of the gang, not the outcast the little non-hunting bugger had always been.

Now if you're talking about cats or dogs contemplating 'who they are & where they're going' in life you might be reluctant to accept that they likely know better than we do what their mission here on earth is. no matter what man thinks he knows or is able to intellectualize of life, we are the ones who're confused, animals even our pets are not.

thats a cool story S4L....and i'm sure you know i got some like that myself w/ dealing w/ my dogs.

they say that border collies are as smart as a 5 year old child:

In a report being published Thursday in the journal Science, the researchers say a 9-year-old border collie named Rico was able to learn the name of a new object in one try, by a process of elimination.

Told to fetch an unfamiliar object with a name he had not heard before, Rico picked out the novel item from a group of familiar ones.

Even more important, Rico proved in other tests four weeks later that he remembered what he had learned, said Dr. Julia Fischer, an author of the report who is a senior research fellow in the evolution of communication at the Max-Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany.

She said that Rico was displaying a kind of learning by inference that is called fast mapping. It was thought to be a language-learning ability specific to humans, but Rico's ability suggests it may be more widespread.

Rico was not picked at random for the study. His abilities were known to television audiences in Germany long before the scientists started working with him. In fact, said Dr. Fischer, it was Rico's performance retrieving a variety of objects on a popular game show, "Wetten, Dass?" (roughly "Want to Bet?"), that brought him to her attention.

The owners say the dog knows the names of 200 objects. The scientists did not test this claim but said anecdotal evidence supported it.

The report is unlikely to surprise owners of border collies. The breed is known for its intelligence and intensity. But they are certain to re-ignite a debate over what language is and whether it is unique to humans.


Warren Mick, a border collie owner and trainer in upstate New York who is president of the Northeast Border Collie Association, said, "I've had dogs that could pick up something with one experience." He also said he had no doubt the dogs learned specific words.

In a commentary accompanying the Science article, Dr. Paul Bloom, a psychologist at Yale, wrote that the proper scientific controls were used in the experiment to avoid the possibility of cues from the owner other than the command.

Such hidden cues have invalidated other impressive achievements of animals, most famously those of a horse known as Clever Hans who was said to have done arithmetic but was actually responding to unconscious cues from his owners.

Dr. Bloom added that without further experiment, it was unclear that Rico's performance was related to the way children learn words. "It is too early to give up on the view that babies learn words and dogs do not," he concluded.

Dr. Fischer said the conclusions in the report were limited to Rico and could not be extrapolated to other border collies, or dogs in general, until more research was done. Rico might be a special case among dogs, she said, adding, "Maybe he's Albert Einstein."


"We wonder what prevents animals from speaking. The limitations are not their capacity to hear or understand," Julia Fischer of the Max-Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig told a news conference in Berlin.

...anyone who has had a border collie knows how smart they are...it's scary

 

[RudolfTheRed]

I don't really understand the argument that humans are not more important than any other animal. Can you name one animal that has had more of impact on the world than humans (within a comparable amount of time)? Can you name one animal with an imagination and foresight? Can you name one animal that is conscious of itself? It's really the big brain that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

What kind of impact are you talking about? There are several species of animals and life out there that have a great impact on nature and on humans and they make life possible. So I would say in the circle of life each and every animal has an important role as we all rely on each other and ones impact is no more important than the others.
And honestly whatever impact humans have had on planet earth has largely been negative in my humble opinion. I'm not even sure what kind of impact your talking about. Are we more important in your opinion because we can make conscious decisions? I would argue that we're not the only species of life out there that has the ability to make a conscious decisions. Or are we more important because we can talk? Well all sorts of animals communicate to each other. Lots of animals can hear/see/ and do a lot of things better than humans can do. So your bigger brain doesn't make you any different.
Again, we only think we're more important. Were not. Just because we can drive a car to work, smoke bud, and watch football on Sundays doesn't make us better.
After death we're just a rotting corpse just like anything else. Hopefully, like yukon ill just be left in the woods to rot into the ground. and maybe ill get eaten by a bear. that would be cool.

 

[RudolfTheRed]

Also, how do you know other animals have no foresight or imagination? i could easily tear this one a part too but i'll spare ya...
obviously you've never owned any dogs in your life.
and this doesn't even extend to just house pets... there are several species animals in the wild that have incredible foresight and know exactly what there doing and whats goin on...

 

[NOKUY]

Well all sorts of animals communicate to each other. Lots of animals can hear/see/ and do a lot of things better than humans can do.

...exactly, and just because my dog can't "verbally" speak to me I know that he knows me better than i probably know myself.

w/ out me even speaking how does he know when i dont feel good, and just need him to chill w/ me and be compassionate?

how does he know im gonna be home at an irregular hour 5 min. before i'm there? (visitors have often confirmed that)

how does he know who to trust and who not to, and he is always "spot on"?

why does he know EVERY command i give him and i've NEVER specifically trained him to do anything ....and usually knows well before i even say anything?

 

[Stoner4Life]

Wow, over 200 objects! I'm really impressed.

My old springer spaniel Ralph knew the names of each and would fetch any one of over 30 toys when asked. She loved her little plushies and probably could've learned more but 30+ toys on the floor for her while I was living in a mobile home was enough.......

Here's the real deal on dogs (and I think NOKUY will back me up on this) you get out whatever efforts you put into their training and your relationships, and if you can reach your dog on that special level then you can certainly teach it anything, and of course you can have them excell at whatever working class they're in.

I work hard at bonding with my hunting dogs, time, energy, rewards all expended accordingly in training. I now have top notch field dogs that're the envy of friends that hunt w/me. The way my dogs stay close, the way they flush birds toward me/us instead of just charging the birds. They'll stop & go dead silent when I signal a 'sshhhhh' and then they listen for that 'booop' 'boooop' 'boooop' sound a grouse makes when tree'd, and they know to let me creep into the woods silently cause this ones gonna be shot from a branch, a true symbiosis between man and a working dog.

NOKUY's owned working class dogs & knows the instincts and intellect they possess in their own field of expertise, feeding these instincts and allowing them to follow them helps to satisfy these dogs immensely.

 

[NOKUY]

here is such a great article from national geographic:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/animal-minds/virginia-morell-text/1

 

[NOKUY]

Wow, over 200 objects! I'm really impressed.

My old springer spaniel Ralph knew the names of each and would fetch any one of over 30 toys when asked. She loved her little plushies and probably could've learned more but 30+ toys on the floor for her while I was living in a mobile home was enough.......

Here's the real deal on dogs (and I think NOKUY will back me up on this) you get out whatever efforts you put into their training and your relationships, and if you can reach your dog on that special level then you can certainly teach it anything, and of course you can have them excell at whatever working class they're in.

I work hard at bonding with my hunting dogs, time, energy, rewards all expended accordingly in training. I now have top notch field dogs that're the envy of friends that hunt w/me. The way my dogs stay close, the way they flush birds toward me/us instead of just charging the birds. They'll stop & go dead silent when I signal a 'sshhhhh' and then they listen for that 'booop' 'boooop' 'boooop' sound a grouse makes when tree'd, and they know to let me creep into the woods silently cause this ones gonna be shot from a branch, a true symbiosis between man and a working dog.

NOKUY's owned working class dogs & knows the instincts and intellect they possess in their own field of expertise, feeding these instincts and allowing them to follow them helps to satisfy these dogs immensely.

yep ive dealt w/ dogs on many levels....i choose my current breed (great pyrenees) for the companionship part only, and lack of having to do much training, and really only bonding. ive had serious guard dogs and serious herding dogs, but i dont need that right now.


yukon isn't an obedience guy, but he'll do anything i ask, and I ask VERY little, and he never complains, and just chills alot, and alerts me when he thinks there is a concern...he almost never hears the word "NO", and usually hears "good dog"....i make sure he has everything he needs, and even tho he isnt overly socialized, he loves most any animal and most people. and most of all he understands me always.

 

[RudolfTheRed]

I have a disabled aunt in my family who relied on a dog daily for assistance and the dog could even detect when the seizures she had were coming before she had them. I'm not even sure humans can do that with modern technology. I could be wrong though. But he saved her life more than once I'm certain. He was able to detect a seizure and called for help. Its amazing how smart dogs are.

My rott surprises me daily.

 

[NOKUY]

I have a disabled aunt in my family who relied on a dog for daily activities and could even detect the seizures she had. I'm not even sure humans can do that with modern technology. I could be wrong though.
I also have a rott and he is scary smart.

ive seen things where dogs can detect cancer and other diseases.

i wouldent call my current pooch overly smart, def not dumb, .... but he's far more intuitive than anyone i know.

 

[ksac]

What kind of impact are you talking about? There are several species of animals and life out there that have a great impact on nature and on humans and they make life possible. So I would say in the circle of life each and every animal has an important role as we all rely on each other and ones impact is no more important than the others.

The impact I'm talking about is an impact on the world and our selves. What other animal has changes the surface of the planet as much and as quickly as humans? Humans have wiped out entire species. I never said we had a positive or negative impact. I'm not arguing either way for that. We are also impacting the atmosphere like no other animal (before anyone brings it up, I'm not arguing for/against our effect on global warming).

Of course we rely on many species of animals. And many species of animals don't rely on us (dung beetle?). I never said animals were unimportant. I depend on other people for my way of life more than I do animals. Almost everything around me has been affected by humans in some way so that it is usable to me. We also depend on social contact for psychological development. With out our social abilities, we may not even be here today; natural selection. In fact we have surpassed many pressures of natural selection because our ability to socialize and pass on knowledge (i.e. agriculture). I still believe we depend on other humans more than anything else (besides the basic necessities to sustain life, obviously).

I would argue that we're not the only species of life out there that has the ability to make a conscious decisions.

Please do. I welcome any scientific evidence you can produce to back up this claim.

So your bigger brain doesn't make you any different.

I have scientific evidence to back this up, if you would like.

Again, we only think we're more important. Were not. Just because we can drive a car to work, smoke bud, and watch football on Sundays doesn't make us better.

See post #33

After death we're just a rotting corpse just like anything else. Hopefully, like yukon ill just be left in the woods to rot into the ground. and maybe ill get eaten by a bear. that would be cool.

To each his own, right? I've always told my relatives that I would rather the money be sent to a worthy charity, than spent putting me in a box in the ground.

Also, how do you know other animals have no foresight or imagination? i could easily tear this one a part too but i'll spare ya...
obviously you've never owned any dogs in your life.
and this doesn't even extend to just house pets... there are several species animals in the wild that have incredible foresight and know exactly what there doing and whats goin on...

Please tear it apart. Again, I welcome any evidence you have to back up this claim.

And yes, I have own dogs. I've own dogs (have since I can remember), cats, birds, rodents. My ex's family had 6-8 horses at any given time. I'm from the south, and we love our dogs. We use them for hunting too. The only reason I haven't had a dog (my favorite pet) the past two years is because I live somewhere that doesn't allow pets. I loved my pets very much, and it always hurt when they died. So, it's not a case that I lack sympathy, I'm just a realist. I try to step outside my own personal feelings and look at it as objectively as I can.

 

[ksac]

Dogs can be incredibly smart, no doubt they can learn. Horses seem to me to have the most personalty than any other pet I've dealt with. And they super smart to boot. I wasn't much into horse riding when I was younger, so the first time I got on my ex's horse I was nervous. The horse knew it and gave me all sorts of trouble.

 

[ksac]

What happened to your last post RTR? It was interesting.

 

[9Lives]

Again, we only think we're more important. Were not. Just because we can drive a car to work, smoke bud, and watch football on Sundays doesn't make us better.

My god..you are a tool. Put things into perspective. If all you can do is smoke bud watch football on sundays and drive to work. You are obviously no better than an animal.

But some people invent rockets, cures, theories of evolution etc. How can you not see all humans have done is so so so far ahead of everything else we know.

Now i agree..there are a large amount of people that are simply not needed. The products of the industrial revolution. But that is just NOW! I assure you this problem will be dealt with in the future. Be it by the advancement of space travel or a good old fashion massacre..

yeah..going to space..let's see your dolphin do that lol..

I know that animals are cute and fuzzy and it feels good to protect animals. And it feels good to think that they have feelings like us. But it is nothing more than a gut feeling..and therefore stupid/without thought..