Bush signs controversial anti-piracy law

[Stoner4Life]

The restaurant analogy isn't a very good one. For one, it doesn't cost the music/movie industry any money for the reproductions for piracy. The analogy would be better suited for an argument against the thief of DVDs or CDs. I'm only talking about information.

No, it's perfect if you take off your blinders. The restaurants prepares your plate, you consume it and pay nothing. The record company prepares a CD for you, it sits on the store shelf waiting for you, instead you pirate the music from kazaa, you have consumed their product and paid NOTHING, exactly the same as the old dine and dash. And btw, you mentioned the movie & music industry in your first post so no backing out w/the "I'm only talking about information" line above.

Do you believe that we should increase the punishment for people who "dine and dash" because people still do it? I mean, people still commit murder even if the penalty is death. Not much worse you could do to them, yet the crime lives on. Stricter laws just don't completely solve the problem, but do manage to create more suffering in the world.

Look how you're trying to twist my words, my concise analogy. We're still talking piracy here choochie! Who the fuck said anything about dine & dash penalties?

But not enough punishment has been levied against the piracy perps yet, and how do I know this you must be wondering??????? Because they keep doing it, if a kid is stealing music online I hope they come and take the computer right out of the house, after all parents are 100% liable for their childrens damages. Not enough has been done yet to convince the thieving internet public to stay away from P2P.


And awwww boohoo about tougher laws creating suffering in the world. That's what tough laws are for, punishment.

Nobody is entitled to copyrighted works free of charge, it is stealing even if you feel good about it, it is stealing even if you feel/think you're entitled to it, it is stealing even if you've been doing it all of your pathetic life.......

 

[ksac]

No, it's perfect if you take off your blinders. The restaurants prepares your plate, you consume it and pay nothing. The record company prepares a CD for you, it sits on the store shelf waiting for you, instead you pirate the music from kazaa, you have consumed their product and paid NOTHING, exactly the same as the old dine and dash. And btw, you mentioned the movie & music industry in your first post so no backing out w/the "I'm only talking about information" line above.


Look how you're trying to twist my words, my concise analogy. We're still talking piracy here choochie! Who the fuck said anything about dine & dash penalties?

But not enough punishment has been levied against the piracy perps yet, and how do I know this you must be wondering??????? Because they keep doing it, if a kid is stealing music online I hope they come and take the computer right out of the house, after all parents are 100% liable for their childrens damages. Not enough has been done yet to convince the thieving internet public to stay away from P2P.


And awwww boohoo about tougher laws creating suffering in the world. That's what tough laws are for, punishment.

Nobody is entitled to copyrighted works free of charge, it is stealing even if you feel good about it, it is stealing even if you feel/think you're entitled to it, it is stealing even if you've been doing it all of your pathetic life.......

No, the restaurant analogy doesn't fit, because it would cost me money for the food and someone takes it without paying. Say it cost me $10 to make a meal and someone comes in and eats without paying. My profit is now -$10, and I won't lose any customers from it (he can't share his eaten food). Ok, let's say I make a profit from selling a CD/DVD of $10. Someone buys a CD/DVD and copies it and gives it to their friends. My profit is now $10, but I may/may not have lost some customers. See how they differ? I'm just saying the analogy doesn't fit.

CD/DVDs are blank without information and information is what is being transferred to your computer when you make a copy of a CD/DVD. Why don't they do their best to take advantage of this online market? If piracy is really hurting them that much, then they're not keeping up with the market.

I'm not backing out of my music/movie industry arguments. The reason I brought up dine and dash penalties and murder was to hopefully cutoff the argument that you posed here:

"But not enough punishment has been levied against the piracy perps yet, and how do I know this you must be wondering??????? Because they keep doing it, if a kid is stealing music online I hope they come and take the computer right out of the house, after all parents are 100% liable for their childrens damages. Not enough has been done yet to convince the thieving internet public to stay away from P2P. "

See my previous post.

I read some of Thomas Kant's work on ethics recently. I think your views match up with his. Not saying anything is wrong with it, but you may like his work.

Sorry I'm so windy, just a slow night I guess. It feels nice outside, so I'm going to the porch to have a smoke.

 

[maryj315]

Right on bro!
They made that music to sell it NOT to give it away.




really? is that a fact or you talkin' out your butt?

Let's just say that I'm a session musician which means I do my recording in studios only, I don't tour, are you saying that you're entitled to steal my music, my art, my livelihood because I don't meet your demands or expectations that I make it on the road touring? And that second remark says it all maryj, everyone's entitled to an opinion maryj but to refer to the rest of the music industries efforts at supporting itself as SCHEMES? Do you think that attitude gives you the right to steal? I'd actually like to know exactly wtf you meant by schemes and htf (how the fuck) are the musicians & everybody else in the industry in those so called schemes supposed to profit from them? Really, what are those schemes comprised of?

And so why were they ever selling records in the first place if there's no money in it? Sam Goody would kick your ass.......


Theft is theft and you CAN'T dress it up so that it fits your definition of what you want to be able to do regarding piracy online. A whole generation grew up stealing their music and movies from P2P sources over the net, those days are coming to a close so that musicians and movie studios can continue to afford to produce quality entertainment.

Now the 'Generation Theft' crowd is crying the blues (which btw is NOT piracy at all, feel free to cry away) that they'll need to cough up ka-jing to hear them sing.......



All due respect to anyone who produces music for a living, there's no guarantee anyones gonna like it, play it, buy it....... they desrve to make every penny they can for their efforts. If & when they hit it big in the business they often give back to the public with benefit concerts and supporting causes for the good of man.

So is that fact or did you pull that out your ass what is that all about? So you just put focus on the word schemes because you do not have good explanation as to why your musician cant make any money in a free market with unlimited exposure.you do know a 1 hit wonder can last a lifetime now not just fade away until we see them on where are they now. you want a fact the Internet is free if it was not less people would use it everyday which means less revenue for Internet business's. it gets bigger and bigger which means a 1 hit wonders fan base gets larger. he does not have to tour as long as his song lives he lives. dude simple economics the more people who view your product the more opportunity their is to make money. music meets the Internet some parts of the industry will be lost. same thing is happening in the newspaper industry people are getting their news from bloggers and such and they got their news from the paper and tv,radio and such. should the bloggers be charged with stealing? what most concerns me is why are you being so hostile and aggressive toward me? i never said i was a expert on anything just giving my own little humble opinion. sorry it aggravated you so much i will try harder next time so i do not upset you. as already stated i agree with you on movies and you did nothing but give me a scenario that you made up where are the facts or did you just pull that out your ass? Have a good day sir.

 

[RudolfTheRed]

its apparent stoner4life isn't a musician and if he was he would play for Metallilca.

 

[cocktail frank]

metallica went down the tubes once they got "trendy" anyway.
all their good shit was from long ago.
you couldnt pay me to buy their new album.

"if u steal our music, i cant fuel my private jet"
fuck off

 

[Dr. Buzz]

I'm with Stoned 4 Life.

I don't think that some of you understand how much time, money, and dicipline it takes to become an accomplished musician. To make it as a session musician or any other professional music carreer you must first practice your instrument for hours a day for years. It is a good idea to attend a good conservatory or music school to fine tune your skills as a musician or recording engineer. When you are done with school you can look forward to working washing dishes or other steller McCjob while you are trying to make a name for yourself. And you must remember to pay those student loans. The competition is also very stiff so it might take years to make it, if one makes it at all.

S4L mentioned anther very good point. RISK. The record labels take a risk every time they sign on a new artist. When people pirate music the labels take less riscs on somthing new. This practice has been around since 1979 or so. Ever wonder why there are no more new great bands like Zepplin or Sabbath? If music has lost it's monitary value, how can we expect any quallity in the music that is being produced today? Music produced with Protools is easy, and the result is sterile, overcompressed, and BORRING.

To say that music is merly information and it should be shared for free gives no respect for the musicians or others who work hard to produce that information that has suddenly no value. This has nothing to do with Metallica and feeding their jet with fuel, this has to do with fair compensation for art. Those who work in the industry are the same as anyone else. They just want to put food on the table and provide a living for themselves. For these people music isn't just a hobby on the side, and every time you download their music that means less of an income they get to take home, and maybe one less musician who can make music a carreer.

 

[maryj315]

DR BUZZ good points you made yet you used sabbath and zeppelin as examples of good bands i agree with that.But lets talk down the road do you think a kid 50 years from now will pay to listen to one of those bands if he has never heard. most likely he wont but he will for free.which means who ever owns those royalty rights can make money off those songs indefinitely. this really gives the entertainer more control of their future and money. the days of them just signing a contract and letting somebody else worry about their advancement may soon be ending. Take kiss for example. he knew you could not just bang girls for the rest of his life and still keep the money rolling in. that is why he used other marketing adventures including free concerts back in the 90s i know i went to 1. they do not make a lot off album sales i think they only get a dollar and some change for every album sold. once you become a Internet star around the world. your name has value ala Paris hilton. it is up to the individual to figure out how to make their fortune from the system.

 

[Stoner4Life]

The money is not in the music it is all in the tours and other marketing schemes.The more people who have access to their music the broader fan base they will have.And we are talking worldwide exposure for free well after they are dead.

OK, so here we go again, MOST musicians don't go on big tours. I didn't make that scenario up, you're just totally uninformed when it comes to the reality of the music business.

And I'm still waiting for a real reply, what are the money making schemes?

The broad fan base is developed through radio air play as usual.

And WTF do they care about worldwide exposure for free after they're dead?
WTF is that? The bonus plan?

And let me ask you this then, if the musicians are constantly complaining about piracy of their music don't they have a right to use every means possible from having others stealing it and making profit from it? I mean, like, it is theirs isn't it? If they say you're stealing it then you are.

I know that YOU don't profit from it, but kazaa does in a big way.


So the way I'm seeing this from your side is.......
It's OK for some bigwig @ kazaa (& the other P2Ps too) to get filthy rich as long as they provide you with free music, AND the bands whose unbought CDs are sitting on the shelves nationwide should be happy (after you steal some of their music) that you'll remember them forever (after they're dead) because their music can be stolen online forever. Now go on out there and tour for your money if you ever wanna eat!

That about sum it up?

If not where am I wrong? You haven't mentioned Dime One that you've spent on your favorite bands or how they're really supposed to make their money.

 

[Stoner4Life]

its apparent stoner4life isn't a musician and if he was he would play for Metallilca.

the same holds true in that you know nothing about the music business or any other business for that matter.

explain to me the benefit the band enjoys as their CDs sit unbought on shelves across the world while too many people steal their music online.


enlighten me.......

 

[Wunderkind]

So the way I'm seeing this from your side is.......
It's OK for some bigwig @ kazaa (& the other P2Ps too) to get filthy rich as long as they provide you with free music, AND the bands whose unbought CDs are sitting on the shelves nationwide should be happy (after you steal some of their music) that you'll remember them forever (after they're dead) because their music can be stolen online forever. Now go on out there and tour for your money if you ever wanna eat!

how does one go about becoming "filthy rich" off of a free program that provides free media?

 

[trouble]

OK, so here we go again, MOST musicians don't go on big tours. I didn't make that scenario up, you're just totally uninformed when it comes to the reality of the music business.

And I'm still waiting for a real reply, what are the money making schemes?

The broad fan base is developed through radio air play as usual.

And WTF do they care about worldwide exposure for free after they're dead?
WTF is that? The bonus plan?

And let me ask you this then, if the musicians are constantly complaining about piracy of their music don't they have a right to use every means possible from having others stealing it and making profit from it? I mean, like, it is theirs isn't it? If they say you're stealing it then you are.

I know that YOU don't profit from it, but kazaa does in a big way.


So the way I'm seeing this from your side is.......
It's OK for some bigwig @ kazaa (& the other P2Ps too) to get filthy rich as long as they provide you with free music, AND the bands whose unbought CDs are sitting on the shelves nationwide should be happy (after you steal some of their music) that you'll remember them forever (after they're dead) because their music can be stolen online forever. Now go on out there and tour for your money if you ever wanna eat!

That about sum it up?

If not where am I wrong? You haven't mentioned Dime One that you've spent on your favorite bands or how they're really supposed to make their money.

S4L, I would have to agree with you, and say that about sums it up!

I wonder how some of these people would feel if someone stoled all their shit and gave it away on "craigs list"?

 

[buckeye-leaf]

metallica went down the tubes once they got "trendy" anyway.
all their good shit was from long ago.
you couldnt pay me to buy their new album.

"if u steal our music, i cant fuel my private jet"
fuck off

i love when im driving in city and i hear some stupid new shit........i turn slayer up as loud as possible

 

[9Lives]

Piracy will never go away. It has always been there.

If you record a song from the radio on a cassette tape it is essentially piracy. And seriously think of the exposure they are getting. I would not know most of the bands i've listened now. Lol how many live gigs would i have missed.

Plus the music industry is killing the music. So fuck em...fuck em well. Just turn on MTV an there are the people who make most of the money in the music business. If your music is really a work of art..fans will buy it! And visit your gigs where ever you show up.

Got to give it up to the oldschool bands who still toured and gigged like crazy.

Nearly fucking anyone can do it in a modern studio...

 

[maryj315]

Stoner4life

I have given you plenty of examples you just continue to ignore them and continue on with your same old rant that you some how proclaim as a fact.

And you do it in a aggressive manner trying to pull me into a pissing match so you do not have to deal with any of my points

1. I did not invent it i only see opportunity in it.

2. I respect your opinion

3.You are telling me a smaller more constricted market is better than a larger less restricted free market

4. IT is to late p2p is here to stay it would have to be a world wide effort to stop it

5. RHIANNA did not come up on radio

6. Because of free file sharing a good song does not DIE ANYMORE THAT MEANS THE ARTIST WHO SINGS IT DOES NOT DIE ANYMORE WHICH GIVES HIM OPPERTUINITY TO KEEP A FAN BASE THAT HE CAN MAKE MONEY FROM

7. The old system which you seem to love does not provide that if you do not keep making yourself relevant you get tossed aside you make people make a decision on who they will spend their money on

8. When it is free they do not have to make that decision they get a free chance to find out if Zepp is better than three doors down which means Zepp can have a money producing fan base well after they are dead.

9.Marketing sorry i should not have put the word schemes behind it you seem to focus on it. Product endorsements, paid appearances, etc etc

10.PARIS HILTON she recorded a song do you think she did it for record sales as long as she keeps people googling her name she has opportunity to make money she is queen of marketing schemes

11. Times change you ethier stay ahead of the game or you get left behind that rule applies to anything

12. They only get a small % of the record sale

13. Most of my favorite are hair bands from the 80s which grunge killed but a few are now back at it again i will not say for fact it is because of file sharing but it sure is a question to ask

14. My 11y kid knows more grateful dead songs than i do why because i only heard the most popular ones played on the radio and not just dead songs ethier he knows all kinds of old music blew my mind

15. I do not want somebody selling my stuff on craiglist my name has no value this is a very good point BUTT if my name had value which free unlimited file sharing provides then my fans would bid on my stuff providing me with revenue hell i could have them bid on me and i would get it as long as my song stays alive your system does not provide that

16. Why are leaving it up to me to figure out how somebody turns fame into fortune Internet and file sharing are in their infancy i could be wrong and you could be right like i have said i just see the opportunity in it

17. I used to have a rhapsody account i paid a little over i think it was 16 bucks to make a cd not bad problem was 2 weeks later it got scratched so i thought i could make another 1 guess what you cant kind of like buying a car but never really owning it also you have to subscribe to a lot of different accounts to have all your favorite bands who is screwing who now

18. I download music for personal use not profit no different from hearing it on the radio for free used to do the same thing with cassette recorders only difference now is quality

19. WHAT THE FUCK DOES WORLD WIDE EXPOSURE MEAN. YOUR QOUTE



you do know the only reason we are on this forum having this discussion is because of FREE WORDWIDE EXSOPSURE if people had to pay for their time spent on the Internet this site would only have a few members i doubt it would even be here at all if only people who could afford it could use the Internet

20. This is only my observation of the situation. just my humble opinion not a fact you could be completely 100% correct i respect your thoughts no need to get mad about it and condinsending. you have not stated anything which leads to believe you are a expert. all you have done is parse my words and make me the bad guy and give a lecture on stealing. as long as i am portrayed as the bad guy who steals music you only have to address only a couple points here and there. which is exactly what you are doing nobody likes a thief. it puts me in the position of defending my points while still debating yours. you do have few valid points but you are mostly just ranting.

Seems to me you already have your mind made up and you are telling me if i do not agree than that makes me a thief who does not know any better that is not debate that is you telling me i am just wrong and you are right not much of a debater are you all i can say is WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still respect you and your thoughts you do make some valid points that i cannot discount and you could be completely correct in the long run only time will tell have a good day

 

[Stoner4Life]

BTW, during this entire post the word 'YOU'
isn't used exclusively in regards to you Wunder,
it is also how I'm addressing any and all folks
here, readers, downloaders to whom it applies.

how does one go about becoming "filthy rich" off of a free program that provides free media?

it's not a free program if you decide to upgrade to their faster downloads/uploads. Generally the cost is a one time fee of $20 or so. Please Wunderkind, remove the blinders, if someone wasn't getting filthy rich off of it then why would it even exist?

Are you trying to tell me that a complete stranger to us all spends a minimum of 50-100K to have his software written up for him and he then maintains an expensive site requiring the fastest of servers again for free every month? And he'd be doing all of this for you complete strangers, at risk of fines and imprisonment given the intense scrutiny of the business these days?
Ummmmmmm, I don't think so bro.

In the old days bootleggers had to sell their wares on the street or in their stores, you could only buy what was there atm. Now a guy can sit his cheap lazy ass in a favorite chair and steal whatever music or movie he/she wants, all at alarming speed that the industry is having a hard time defensing. Sad truth is that the movie & music business was not even close to ready for the access internet users would have to their property. Technology marches on at a constant rate where the internet & computers are concerned allowing music & movies to be stolen at alarming rates.

I can understand how a lot of you that've been stealing your music with such impunity for so long a time actually think that first, 'you're not stealing' and/or that secondly 'you're entitled to it now because you've been stealing it for so long'. Actually most of you sound like you don't think you're stealing and that you have no intentions of stopping or even admitting that you're doing something wrong, you show ZERO compassion for the rights of the music owners and shun them like red rudy did so to metallica in his response to me.

No respect for the musicians.

=========================================================

BTW, during this entire post the word 'YOU'
isn't used exclusively in regards to you maryj,
it is also how I'm addressing any and all folks
here, readers, downloaders, to whom it applies.

19. WHAT THE FUCK DOES WORLD WIDE EXPOSURE MEAN. YOUR QOUTE



you do know the only reason we are on this forum having this discussion is because of FREE WORDWIDE EXSOPSURE if people had to pay for their time spent on the Internet this site would only have a few members i doubt it would even be here at all if only people who could afford it could use the Internet

first of all, as for misquoting me and trying to make me appear to be stupid, well that just don't cut it, I am quite disdainful of that shit. You can run that misquote crap on your 11 yr old instead but don't go there w/me, I'll blow that shit right out of the water like I'm doing now. Do you realize that every time you mention the 11 yr old you're admitting that you allow him to steal? Here's my actual quote to recollect your memory.

And WTF do they care about worldwide exposure for free after they're dead?
WTF is that? The bonus plan?

The musicians are here, living, breathing, eating, sleeping etc....... they'd very much like you to buy their music online legitimately so they can continue to produce music now. Let me venture a guess on their behalf for ya....... they don't give a flock about nothing after they're dead!

Now THAT'S the meat of my quote, wouldn't you say?

And btw, this site is supported by seed sales and contributions.
And another btw....... the internet isn't free, people DO pay for their time spent on the internet, I know goddamned well you pay a service provider so that's another bit of bs maryj. Nothings free in this world. If it were all free then Gypsy could give seeds away, after all seeds grow on trees unlike CDs.


Now the real deal here is that you have not told all of us how you support your favorite bands, they produce one thing and one thing alone to sell, their music.

You made a laundry list above as if it answered my questions and as if it made qualified counterpoints, it did neither.

maryj, if the musicians say that you're stealing then you are! If the record companies say that you're stealing then you are! If the government is called in to protect copyrighted material from millions of thieves then so be it.


I don't intend to be attacking you but you're blinded to the fact that you're stealing & I'm upset with that. You have ignored each point supporting the fact that EVERYONE involved in the recording industry says it's stealing and costing them $$$$$$$, instead you'd like to fluff it over with your own viewpoint of how the internet keeps one hit wonders alive forever etc....... THAT doesn't line anyones pockets though does it? This is not about you although I feel obliged to respond to your viewpoints. This IS about the musicians and everyone involved being tired of the theft of music & their income.

I'm upset that so many people (some of them actually thinking that they're even righteous somehow) would just continue to say "Fuck You!" to people who've made it VERY clear that they're tired of being stolen from. There is no defense of this behavior. Just because you can steal and not get caught (yet) doesn't make it right.

Your boss or husbands boss provides a workplace for you, you show up & expect to get paid. Musicians have the record companies for the same exact reason. The band works for months w/o pay to produce an album full of music that meets the demands of their fans as well as the record producers, they record that music either live or in studio in hopes that people will buy the music so that they have a day to day or week to week income just like you expect and deserve for hard work....... does this make sense yet?

They ONLY want to get paid for their work,
simple economics (to quote you).

and finally maryj:

Seems to me you already have your mind made up and you are telling me if i do not agree than that makes me a thief who does not know any better that is not debate that is you telling me i am just wrong and you are right not much of a debater are you all i can say is WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is not a debate as to whether or not you're stealing, you are stealing because the music industry says you are period. This is a debate of the pros and cons of music piracy and its direct impact on the economics of the music industry, from the janitor to the bands to the top execs, every pocket is getting picked each and every time an illegal/unlawful download is made. Stealing is a VERY indefensible offense.

Yes I've called you a thief but I'm only siding with those who are being stolen
from every minute of the day literally. THEY are calling all internet pirates
thieves and I'm hoping to open the eyes of those (you included) so blinded by years of free music downloads that they'll continue to steal the music they know they should be paying for.

When somebody says you're stealing their shit & they want you to stop what
part of that message don't you understand? I know the part of it that you don't respect but what don't you understand about that?


Your son sounds bright enough to do music downloads, and so I'm sure he's heard that it's wrong that it's stealing either from friends or news blurbs on the net, but you let him continue to download anyway. What lesson does he take forward into life then maryj? Confused at best he might make a mistake later that he thinks is harmless and yet might impact his future in a negative way.

 

[Indica Jones]

sharing is bad for the economy
geez
dont you care about the economy?

So we shouldn't be bailing out Banks to a tune of 840 Billion then? LOL...................I think I will giving my share to the Economy pretty soon.

 

[Wunderkind]

S4L - I don't use Kazaa. The only Kazaa like program I use is WinMX, a 100% free service, I use this to quickly find songs. I also use private torrent sites, membership to these sites are free. They do ask for donations to help with server costs, but that's as far as they go, asking. They do offer "gifts" in return for a donation, such as free leech for a period of time. (sounds an awful lot like the site we're all using right now)

To me the whole point of file sharing is to pay nothing and I don't, nor do most people. Paying for a program such as Kazaa is for suckers and the uninformed. And to think someone is getting "filthy rich" off of a free service like WinMX or torrent sites is outright lunacy.


fyi, most people who own the rights to the software write it themselves. No one is spending $100k to create a file sharing program.

 

[shopvac]

lol funny enough metallica is now ok with piracy of their music.

http://mashable.com/2008/09/04/metallica-ok-with-piracy/


"Metallica’s new album has leaked out a week or two early, unsurprisingly. It isn’t surprising because it’s Metallica, but that it happens to most every artist these days. Some record store somewhere will sell a copy or two earlier than they should, one of those folks will share it with their friends, and lickety-split, it’s all over the Intertubes.

In this case, that’s almost exactly what happened, according to Blabbermouth

METALLICA drummer Lars Ulrich has commented on the premature release of the band’s new album, ”Death Magnetic”, via a French record store. A shop in Paris reportedly sold a number of copies of the CD this morning well ahead of its official September 12 worldwide release date — with illegal ”Death Magnetic” MP3 files making their way online by this afternoon.

During a guest appearance earlier today on ”The Woody Show” on the San Francisco, California radio station Live 105 (KITS 105.3 FM), Ulrichstated about the French leak,

“Listen, we’re ten days from release. I mean, from here, we’re golden. If this thing leaks all over the world today or tomorrow, happy days. Happy days. Trust me. Ten days out and it hasn’t quote-unquote fallen off the truck yet? Everybody’s happy. It’s 2008 and it’s part of how it is these days, so it’s fine. We’re happy.”

This is the happy face that Metallica seems to be putting on this particular leak, and I’m not buying it for even a minute. Consistently since their role in the demise of Napster, they’ve maintained an adversarial role with their fans that continues to this day.

If you remember, they were handed accolades in the blogosphere several months ago when they agreed to release their album free of DRM in digital format. Sean P. Aune wrote a post on his personal blog that at the time I thought was a little harsh, essentially saying the band was still clueless, and was nowhere close to “getting it.”

Their cluelessness a few days later was futher confirmed when they had their management issue takedown requests to all who reviewed the album based on invited advanced listenings.

I think our president once said something like “fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” With eloquence like that, you have to wonder, but I think even he would be a bit wary of Metallica’s true feelings on this.

I’m guessing they aren’t going to get involved in another ridiculous lawsuit or criminal pursuit against the pirates of the world, but mark my words: if Metallica’s album sales aren’t simply spectacular, look for an irritated and enraged Lars Ulrich coming soon to a press conference near you to blame all the pirates of the world for preventing Metallica fans from keeping his private jet fueled up."

 

[Stoner4Life]

To me the whole point of file sharing is to pay nothing and I don't, nor do most people. Paying for a program such as Kazaa is for suckers and the uninformed. And to think someone is getting "filthy rich" off of a free service like WinMX or torrent sites is outright lunacy.

In regards to 'file sharing', you can't dress up stealing w/a tech term.

More accurately you might've said "To me the whole point of stealing my movies and music is to pay nothing and I don't, nor do most people."

I pay full retail for ALL of my entertainment, I don't steal it like you. I buy at stores or online almost every week. That make me a sucker too? After all, you just called kazaa users suckers & they pay a small fee each year.

Lunatic moi? no no no, BUT!
I'd have to be a simpleton to believe that someone's just doing this out of the kindness of their heart to provide free movies and music to you.

If nobody is making money than why are they risking their freedom Wunder?
now even that has to make sense to a file sharing guy like you.

You do remember Napster right? You do remember your ABCs right? Great!
:facetious smiley:
Let's just check a quote from Wikipedia.......

In 2000, A&M records and several other recording companies sued Napster (A&M Records, Inc. v. Napster, Inc.) for contributory and vicarious copyright infringement under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMC Act). The music industry made the following claims against Napster:

That its users were directly infringing the plaintiff's copyright; That Napster was liable for contributory infringement of the plaintiff's copyright; and That Napster was liable for vicarious infringement of the plaintiff's copyright.

The court found Napster guilty on all three claims.

Napster lost the case in the District Court and appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. Although the Ninth Circuit found that Napster was capable of commercially significant non-infringing uses, it affirmed the District Court's decision. On remand, the District Court ordered Napster to monitor the activities of its network and to block access to infringing material when notified of that material's location. Napster was unable to do this, and so shut down its service in July 2001. Napster finally declared itself bankrupt in 2002 and sold its assets. It had already been offline since the previous year owing to the effect of the court rulings.

Gee, now if I'm not mistaken Napster was a FREE service right?
Yet they had assetts to settle a lawsuit with, of which Shawn Fanning (founder) owned a 30% share, share of what Wunder? a share of air? fuck no, a share of the profits. Profits they accrued by selling ad space, links, banners, and other webmaster venues. wtf would be their incentive in providing a cheap ______ (fill in the blank) like you with free music? money that's what. That was '99-'01 for Napster and I can only imagine the millions some rich mofo is raking in while you openly intend to steal and call any of us that pay for our entertainment suckers.

Don't ever tell me again that someones not getting filthy rich.
I've just proved otherwise and you've made no point other than
a sentence quoted above that's pronounced me a lunatic.......

oh yeah, this time you means 'just you'.


No matter how many names you toss, no matter how you try to church it up, 'file sharing' in regards to copyrighted material is stealing. Your selfrighteous attitude in getting free downloads sounds a bit to me like a spoiled brat child crying in a candy store.

 

[Wunderkind]

In regards to 'file sharing', you can't dress up stealing w/a tech term.

More accurately you might've said "To me the whole point of stealing my movies and music is to pay nothing and I don't, nor do most people."

I pay full retail for ALL of my entertainment, I don't steal it like you. I buy at stores or online almost every week. That make me a sucker too? After all, you just called kazaa users suckers & they pay a small fee each year.

Lunatic moi? no no no, BUT!
I'd have to be a simpleton to believe that someone's just doing this out of the kindness of their heart to provide free movies and music to you.

If nobody is making money than why are they risking their freedom Wunder?
now even that has to make sense to a file sharing guy like you.

why? Because they can. Because they want to. Why do we risk our freedom to grow pot? Because we want to.

You do remember Napster right? You do remember your ABCs right? Great!
:facetious smiley:
Let's just check a quote from Wikipedia.......



Gee, now if I'm not mistaken Napster was a FREE service right?
Yet they had assetts to settle a lawsuit with, of which Shawn Fanning (founder) owned a 30% share, share of what Wunder? a share of air? fuck no, a share of the profits. Profits they accrued by selling ad space, links, banners, and other webmaster venues. wtf would be their incentive in providing a cheap ______ (fill in the blank) like you with free music? money that's what. That was '99-'01 for Napster and I can only imagine the millions some rich mofo is raking in while you openly intend to steal and call any of us that pay for our entertainment suckers.

Don't ever tell me again that someones not getting filthy rich.
I've just proved otherwise and you've made no point other than
a sentence quoted above that's pronounced me a lunatic.......

oh yeah, this time you means 'just you'.


No matter how many names you toss, no matter how you try to church it up, 'file sharing' in regards to copyrighted material is stealing. Your selfrighteous attitude in getting free downloads sounds a bit to me like a spoiled brat child crying in a candy store.

so a dude owned 30% of Napster. It doesn't mean he was getting "filthy rich" off of it. Making a little money isn't the same as getting "filthy rich."

Oink was one of the largest music torrent sites in existance. They busted the dude who created & ran it. He was living in an apartment and he was just a plain old IT guy. He created Oink because he wanted to, not to make money. They claimed he charged membership fees and made tons of cash in doing it. IT WAS A LIE!


btw, Napster was created as a project by a couple of college students.