Organic Hydro - Must it be so nasty?

[fridge-farmer]

I'm growing hydro for the first time and decided to go with organic nutes. I'm using Humboldt Nutrients. I change and scrub my reservoir once a week and I'm always amazed at how gross it is. Smells like the east river at low tide. There's nutrient muck all over my tubing and pump.

So my question is, if I switch to "conventional" hydro nutrients... will my water be clean, clear and free of pond muck?

I'm all for organic but I'm also looking for easy maintenance.

Any thoughts much appreciated...

 

[Mr Celsius]

Yes, if you switch it will be much cleaner and "muck" free.

Sounds like you have anerobic bacteria if it smells horrible.

Organic hydro doesn't seem to work, ever. PBP is not organic, so true hydro organics seems to be impossible (except aquaponics... but lets face it, most growers aren't harvesting fish & weed).

 

[Chomas]

go GH and dont look back

 

[Oscuridad]

go GH and dont look back

^Yeah I was just talking about that in another thread.

You'll still want to scrub the rez down now & then (salts might be harder to see but they're still there ) Concentrated humic/etc additives can add up to a bit of residue if you use enough of them

Fair to say though.. where there is challenge there will always be ingenuity, and people can (and do) definitely make it work if they're particularly inclined. Micron-filtering a tea solution could provide you a startup for any number of systems but you'd really have to know what you were cooking up & even then there would always be more variation than with proper salts.

Lovin the GH as we continue to work with it

 

[pokerman2006200]

yea if u do switch to regular hydro verses from organic it will be muck free and your ph swings will be more stable......

 

[dongle69]

I'm using Humboldt Nutrients.

That is your problem.
Their organic nutes are highly unstable.
Technoflora's Pure Vida organic nutes are nice and clean, probably just want you are looking for if you want to be organic in hydro.

 

[fridge-farmer]

Thanks everyone for the input.

Everyone seems to like GH - but what line of theirs?

FloraNova or FloraLicious

Think I'm going to ditch Humboldt (wish I could get my $100 back!) and stop scrubbing muck every week

This is what using Humboldt Nutrients as recommended by the manufacturer got me...

 

[CrystalsCrystal]

I hear AN's iguana juice is all organic, if ur looking for hydro organic go general hydroponics.. their product SubCulture is for making ur shit hydro organic

 

[alphacat]

Some of GH's ingredients are radioactive byproducts of industrial mining too, like Potassium. So, if ya want yer buds to have a half-life... by all means.

 

[Kal-El]

Iguana is so so and smells nasty. Floranova is decent.

 

[Green Force]

floranova all the way =)

 

[StephenMcTowlie]

Some of GH's ingredients are radioactive byproducts of industrial mining too, like Potassium. So, if ya want yer buds to have a half-life... by all means.

Dude, are you saying that because Potassium is radioactive, we shouldn't feed it to our plants? Plants (and animals, including humans) need Potassium. It's the K in NPK, and our ladies need a bunch to thrive (as much as nitrogen or more, depending on strain and growth stage). All fertilizers, including organic ones, use some potassium, as it's an essential element for growth. Don't be hating on K just because it has a radioactive isotope. After all, all organic life is carbon based. Carbon has a radioactive isotope (think carbon dating). Is organic life to be avoided because it's most basic element is potentially radioactive?

 

[Mr Celsius]

Some of GH's ingredients are radioactive byproducts of industrial mining too, like Potassium. So, if ya want yer buds to have a half-life... by all means.

Source please? I've met the owner of GH and seen the facilities... I tend to think I have more knowledge about the subject then you... but I'm fully willing to admit that I'm wrong, if you can prove it to me.

 

[Oscuridad]

Just anti-salt rhetoric...

If we all wanted to be critical & negative all day, we could talk about the heavy metals in varying abundance in many organic nutes.


Or people could just stick to relevant facts, stay cool & aim to make comments reasonably useful..

I dunno , you ought to figure that shit out alphacat.

 

[alphacat]

Dude, are you saying that because Potassium is radioactive, we shouldn't feed it to our plants?

Don't be silly! Of course I don't mean not to give plants their Potassium: I'm saying beware the source of the Potassium. In this case, avoid using ferts that buy their Potassium as a chemical salt byproduct of industrial mining/refining... especially those that are produced as a byproduct of, say, mining uranium or cobalt.

Source please? I've met the owner of GH and seen the facilities... I tend to think I have more knowledge about the subject then you... but I'm fully willing to admit that I'm wrong, if you can prove it to me.

Bear in mind that GH - like all businesses - are about maximizing profit. If you happen to need a large quantity of, say, refined Potassium (or Phosphate... or...) chances are you're going to go with the lowest-priced vendor of such goods. In this case, industrial mining and chemical refineries just so happen to produce large amounts of these chemicals as a byproduct of their processes: they have to get rid of it, and lo and behold, this fertilizer manufacturer also happens to need a lot of it - a deal is struck.

Now as it happens, Potassium is already naturally a little bit radioactive. There is also a small degree of naturally occurring background radiation (ionizing, the kind that'll kill you quick in big enough doses, and non-ionizing radiation like electromagnetism). Ionizing radiation is stored in organic tissues and builds up with repeated irradiation. Get enough of it and... well, it ain't good for you. GH nutes are almost on par with Miracle-Gro, a company that actually used to boast about their radioactivity in the 50's before people knew that this was bad.

from http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=1128344:
_________________________
Radioactive buds?
New study shows that many fertilizers are radioactive, producing potentially harmful pot. -- By David Malmo-Levine and Dana Larsen

A recent study shows that many commonly used fertilizers are high in radioactive elements. The study was performed by Dr Paul Hornby, who holds a master’s degree in biochemistry and a PhD in human pathology from the University of British Columbia.

The study analyzed 25 different types of fertilizers, eight “organic” varieties and 17 “chemical” fertilizers. The results showed that the chemical fertilizers emitted on average five times the radiation of the organic group.

There are different ways of measuring radioactivity. The table shows the “counts per minute” (CPM) of radiation detected in each sample. The average for the organic fertilizers was 140, while the chemical fertilizers had an average radiation count of 675, an almost five-fold increase. The lowest radiation was found in the organic blood meal fertilizers, which emitted only background radiation - the normal low radiation found in most objects. On the other end of the spectrum was the 5-20-20 berry food, with a radiation level about 24 times higher than background.

These levels of radiation don’t pose a danger through simply being around bags of fertilizer. However, cannabis and other plants are known to uptake radioactive elements from their growing medium. Radiation exposure is accumulative, so that repeated inhalation would present an increasing health risk.

Radiation also accumulates in the soil. Farmers who grow chemical-fed tobacco soon face soil vitality-loss, forcing them to use more and more chemical fertilizer every year to maintain the same level of productivity. That means that tobacco land gets more and more radioactive every year. Numerous studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine and other health, science and radiation journals have indicated that it is the radioactive elements in tobacco which lead to lung cancer (CC#35, Radioactive tobacco). Tobacco is typically fed with high-phosphate, chemical fertilizers, including heavy foliar spraying. All of these factors would produce a high-level of radioactive elements in the tobacco leaf.

Although further research is needed, this study does point the way to some simple harm-reduction techniques for pot growers. Many growers believe that using organic fertilizers produces a tastier, higher-quality bud. This study indicates that they could also be producing a less harmful product than that produced with many chemical fertilizers.

Although cannabis and cannabinoids are non-toxic, radiation is a major cause of cancer. Further research is clearly needed, but it seems likely that the best way to keep your buds as safe and harmless as possible is to use non-chemical, organic fertilizers, to eliminate any potential radioactivity getting into your stash, and your lungs.

· Dr Paul Hornby is available for testing of fertilizers and can also test marijuana for cannabinoid profiles: paulh@istar.ca

Fertilizer Type............................................Radioactivity score
Evergro Specialty Fertilizer..........................90
Blood Meal 12-0-0

Green Valley....................................................96
Blood Meal Fertilizer
12-0-0

RainGrow Organic Fertilizer.........................102
Bloom-A-Long
0-12-0

SeaSpray Organic Fertilizer..........................125
0.5-1.0-0.5

Green Valley Blood and Bone..........................154
Meal Fertilizer
7-11-0

RainGrow Organic Fertilizer..........................160
4-2-3

Homestead 100% Organic................................174
Bone Meal
4-14-0

DML Bird Guano...............................................178
NPK unknown
-----------------------------
Those above are all organic.
Those below are all synthetic.
-----------------------------
Miracid Soil Acidifier...................................248
Plant Food
30-10-10

Shultz All Purpose Plant Food.......................258
10-15-10

Miracle-Gro For Roses...................................285
18-24-16

Green Valley....................................................326
Rhododendron and Azalea Food
10-8-6

Shultz African Violet Plus...................................393
8-14-9

General Hydroponics..............................................400
Flora Grow
2-1-6

Miracle-Gro Water Soluble..................................409
Plant Food
15-30-15

Greenleaf Evergreen...............................................437
Tree and Hedge Feeder
13-6-7

Stern's Miracle-Gro..............................................538
For Tomatoes
18-18-21

Miracle-Gro...........................................................547
Plant Food Engrais
15-30-15

Greenleaf Shur Gro....................................................672
Soluble Plant Food
20-20-20

Greenleaf Shur Gro....................................................693
Soluble Plant Food
20-20-20

Shultz-Instant.............................................................740
Orchid Plant Food
19-31-17

Shultz Tomato Plus....................................................874
18-19-30

Evergro Fruit Tree....................................................1037
and Berry Food
4-20-20

Osmocote....................................................................2021
Time Release Fertilizer
18-6-12

Green Valley Berry Food...........................................2384
5-20-20
_________________________

Just anti-salt rhetoric... If we all wanted to be critical & negative all day, we could talk about the heavy metals in varying abundance in many organic nutes. Or people could just stick to relevant facts, stay cool & aim to make comments reasonably useful.. I dunno , you ought to figure that shit out alphacat.

What I love about this comment is that first you say "If we all wanted to be critical & negative all day", then tell me to "figure that shit out." What shit would that be, Mr. O?

Seriously though - heavy metals are bad too, but plants -- to a degree -- can filter and convert some of it pretty well. And yeah, organic nutes CAN have issues with excessive heavy metals (as well as lack of trace minerals, many of which are also ironically heavy metals)... but that's a different discussion now, isn't it? You're arguing by generalization, something logical debate can't abide by. So why don't you go start a thread about "the Heavy Metal Issues In Organic Nutes: Who Cares?" and not just lump it all into some imaginary anti-salt agenda...

Better yet - prove me wrong. Please. Show me that GH nutes don't make a Geiger counter tick, or that it doesn't really matter how much ionizing radiation we voluntarily ingest.

Sorry to everyone else to go off so long-winded: I wouldn't say jack shit if I didn't feel strongly about it. This is an attempt to expose the larger world to an issue which has been critically overlooked. Some people are dismissive of this info, which is their right. Let them have all the half-life bud for themselves...

 

[alphacat]

PS to all - do a search for "gangaboy26."

I don't have corroboration on this one, but if true... yikes.

 

[ShoeboxSherman]

AC - I've contacted the authors for a reprint of the article so that I can look at the (especially statistical) methods. Numbers themselves mean nothing in the absence of statistical methodology.

Not saying you are wrong, or right, but I just want to read and evaluate the study on my own. I do have to add that I'm skeptical, as I am sure that people use GH products for other crops.

 

[Oscuridad]

AC-
Now whether I agree with you or not, that's what I call a useful comment.

Makes one think, anyways.. Cheers buddy.

 

[StephenMcTowlie]

Right on AC. Thanks for sharing that info. I especially see where you're coming from in the case of large plantations fed with chemical fertilizers. Over time, I'm sure that radioactive elements build up and pollute the crops (as has been documented with tobacco). I don't know (because I haven't tried to find out) whether the concentrations we use for growing hydro weed would be absorbed, and if so, what the effects on us smokers would be. I do know that radioactive potassium is impossible to avoid; all samples of potassium contain a small percentage of the radioactive isotope (K40). Given the level of natural potassium in the human body, we are all exposed to about 4400 radioactive decay "events" per second (events in which the decay of the potassium atom gives off a gamma or beta ray). I find it a little difficult to believe that we could have evolved right alongside K40 radiation for all these millenia, yet be putting our health at risk by the K40 exposure in a puff of ganja. Though if, as you say, potassium from industrial mining is contaminated with other radioactive elements, then it could be a cause for concern. I don't know how I feel about the whole issue, really. I love growing hydro, and until someone can show me a simple, effective organic option I'll probably stick with my giant bags of monopotassium phosphate, calcium nitrate, etc. Maybe my glowing green buds will give me superpowers.

It seems like "organic hydro" requires you to rethink your understanding of hydroponic nutrition. Organic gardening is built around the principal that you "feed the soil, not the plant". Well, most hydroponic systems are constructed to feed the plant directly, using chemical fertilizers to provide easily absorbed elements that would otherwise need to be excreted by a population of microorganisms. I think that anyone who wants to run "organic hydro" by just dropping some organic nutrients into a conventional hydro system is missing the point. There needs to be a habitat for the microherd in an organic system; just using nutrients derived from organic sources without carefully nurturing that microherd is counter-productive. With a lot of attention and hard work, I believe that organic hydro is possible and awesome. It's just a little too involved for my situation now. Someday I hope to have an aquaponic garden, with a complete symbiotic ecosystem. Someday...