Evaluate my grow so far, need input on yield, budding, and what to correct!

[1love1earth]

So here are some pics of my grow so far, I am 40 days into flowering, but I'm likely going to flower a tad longer, as I tied my plants back about 14 days into flowering because there were too many of them, and they were way too tall, fighting for the light.

Thus here we are, with plants tied back, and fewer of them, as some went outside.

I'm uncertain as to when the bud will put on most of it's weight.

I only changed my nutrients 2 days ago to a PK boost.

I'm using canna coco coir, canna nutes (A/B pk13/14), hygrozyme, cal/mag+.

All under 2x 400 watt CMH.

Let me know what to expect, as I pray most of the weight comes in the last 30-40 days, otherwise my yield is going to be crap all.

I'm hoping for .25 grams per watt.

Anyways, lets touch base.










Of course canopy pics are helpful, but we're missing scale.




This is my untopped mandala #1, which has the most "cola" ish growth. My other plants have TONS of budsites, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't cut off the stuff that is lower growth, not getting much light, and not really doing much.



These are some other buds:






Finally I have pictures that show problems, whether they be micro or macro nutrient deficiencies, or PH issues, I don't know, but please all input is greatly appreciated.

I've noticed many leaves appear to have slightly burnt tips, which would indicate nutrient overload, or at least a high EC.

Considering until 2 days ago (when pics were taken) I was running exclusively canna A/B, they were still getting plenty of nitrogen, and low on PK.

Now I've changed that.

I've also seen evidence of what appears to be thrip damage (shiny trail patterns, little black specks 'poop' i think, resembles thrip pics), though it isn't super bad, I picked up spinosad and have applied twice, and will continue to apply every 5-7 days. I also mixed the spinosad with "safer" 3 in 1 concentrate. I didn't see any reason why I couldn't/shouldn't, so I did. If that's a problem, somebody correct me.



So regardless, here are the pics. Please feel free to view the larger versions, as they offer greater detail:



Here we have spotting along the edge blades, along with bug/thrip slime/damage on the 2nd to last finger of the leaf.



Here we can see odd damage:



Perhaps the upper fingers are an earlier version of what can be seen above:



No clue here:




Browned edges:




More spotting:










Let me know what you all think, it's my first grow, and I need help.

 

[Pseudo]

are you using RO?
what is up with the ice? i understand cooling rootzones, but i dont think icewater is good for plants, you have some serious lumber, you should have lst them and flowered them much earlier, its a learning experience, your plants look stressed, but you should be able to get .25gpw

 

[1love1earth]

not R/O, but the water is pretty soft.

It's not ice, those are water polymer/crystals, I just put them on the top a few days ago to cover up the roots that were showing, they aren't mixed into the medium itself.

Today I tried pulling bud shoots to the top of the canopy, and tying them there.

The ones that are below the canopy don't grow for crap, and I've tried to bring them to open space in the canopy, or chop them off.

Any info on that yellow spotting?

Bud looks OK, but again I hope it beefs up a whole lot during the next 4-5 weeks.

The plants are pretty old, 3 months of veg or so, was planning on using them for alot of outdoor clones, but it never happened, and thus here we are.

They weren't trained very well at all prior to about a month ago.

 

[Pig-Pen]

Whoa. How big is that space? Cause it looks awful small for 800 watts. Looks like you got some burns.

 

[mrred]

i'd move the lights side by side instead of length wise, then use more plants and flower eariler

 

[jipedestran]

don't worry about those leaves

your biggest problem is space

if you have 30-40 days left of growth, the stretch is probably all done now, looks like they are pretty well trained.

finally, be careful about what type of pesticides you are applying during flowering. personally, i don't use anything, even neem oil on my flowering plants.

peace
jip

I would chop off those tiny popcorn buds that are not getting any light.

next time, you need to do a scrog if you are going to use that space, a screen would really help you train them.

 

[mrred]

chop em and eat it

 

[1love1earth]

The wattage works out to 50 watts per sq ft, which I always had heard as a "max" benchmark.

Maybe I'd be better off with a single 600 watter, or even a 1k, but I dunno.

Worst case I could switch next time, but I honestly feel wattage represents far less in quality/yield increases compared to simple things like nutrient dosages and such.

I will stop with the neem oil then, as I think that is what is in the safer 3 in 1 (actually maybe not).

However, I've heard great things about spinosad, and I definately have seen bug damage, even on my clones.

Sometimes it just looks like an "unnatural" sheen/shiny pattern, like a slug trail, but smaller and much more thin, easily seen only under the right reflection of light. Other times it is white patterned damage that appears to mirror that of the thrips photos, and even more rare are the black specks (poop) along with it.

I've never seen anything with my naked eye, or even a lense, but I know it is there.

Thus spinosad must continue.

However, I am wondering what more I can do.

Obviously the space is tight, it measures 6.5 ft long by 2.5 ft wide and just under 6 ft tall.

However, I am trying to make it work, and I have learned tons, and next setup will do alot of things differently, however right now I want to focus on learning as much as I can, and getting as much weight/quality I can.

I'm continuing to try to bring bud shoots into the light, usually by tying them to a higher shoot.

However it is curious to see beautiful frosty decent sized nugs poking out here and there, under leaves, etc, very well covered, though not under the canopy.

I get the feeling I won't have a true idea of what all exists until I pull it all out for harvest.

Next grow will use more plants in smaller pots, flowered much earlier.

 

[paulobaca]

Somebody please correct me if Im wrong but Uh if those are the polymer crystals im thinking of, like soil moist, you should take things off. They absorb water so there is moisture on top of your soil, thus preventing your roots from getting air and preventing your soil from drying.

Those things are used for outdoor growers who can only visit their crops infrequently.

If you need something to cover roots you can use hydroton or better yet lava rocks which are cheaper.

 

[paulobaca]

Ive had a serious thrip problems before and in my exprnce spinosad is the only spray that will work. You are in a tough situation, continuous spraying especially this far into flowering will cause more problems. I dont even like to spray my vegging plants so much. Hopefully you are spraying during right before lights go off. It looks like some of those burns may be spray burns from the light.

You may also want to check out forums about no pest strips. They are conversial but they may be right for your sit.

 

[1love1earth]

Ok, I'll take the polymers off, makes sense, not doing any good keeping that moist, gotcha.

I've been spraying before the lights go off.

The yellow spotting is not from lightburn.

The no pest strips are seriously scary.

I understand they may be highly effective, but at what cost?!?!

On the packaging, it says to use them in areas that will "not be inhabited for 3-4 months". That's insane. I can't justify putting my health at risk, I think there's a serious risk here, and others should really pay attention, let alone smoking plants exposed to it.

Regardless, I don't know if spinosad can really hurt the plants at all.

I'm going to continue applying it once per week or so, right before lights off.

I pray the PK boosting I've started helps the bud bulk up.

I'm waiting for my donkey dicks to show up, and while they might never quite get that big, something "cola" ish would be great.

I'll continue to chop anything crappy looking that is below the canopy, however what about "younger" looking buds, that appear underdeveloped?

Should I keep the "premature" looking buds?

I figure I can just stagger the harvest if the premies turn out and beef up.

IE, I've got a decent bit of bud shoots that just looks like they are 2-3+ weeks behind the rest.

I'll take pics to explain.

What will PK overfert/burning look like?

Lets say I've been using an EC of 1.3-1.7 so far, made up of canna A/B and cal/mag+ (and other additives that don't effect EC/PPMs).

What sort of base EC should I start with on the PK13/14? .5? .6? I figure I've got .2 to .3 of cal/mag+ (does that sound right?), and that plus my PK13/14 leaves the rest to be filled out by A/B.

IE .6 of PK13/14 + .3 of cal/mag plus + .4-.7= 1.3 to 1.6 EC

Of course, what I'm really asking is "what should I use for an EC for PK13/14", or what about "cal/mag+", or what about "A/B"?

Make sense?



Finally, here are some pics of my clones, mostly satori, with a few big bang.






Specifically I'm looking for nutrient issues diagnosed, as I've seen this patterned stuff before:





while this is only on one leaf so far, I saw it on my flowering plants when they were vegging as well.





This shows something else:








Finally pics of what I assume to be bug damage:





that white damage looks an awful lot like bug damage I've seen in "walkthrough" pics here at ICMAG, and it's not just catching the light, those are white patterned areas, though this is the only of it I've seen on all the clones.

However this pic details the "shiny" patterned stuff, which I also swear I saw in pics here as well.

If not caught by the light, you could easily never know it was even there.




I know some may say I'm being anal, but I'm really trying to learn the nutrient needs of my plants, so I can get them dialed in real well.

 

[1love1earth]

also, the bug problem is extremely limited to my knowledge, I don't see much evidence of damage, it doesn't look like my plants are getting "raped" by something. However I'm not taking any chances or playing any games, and thus the every 4-7 day spinosad treatments will continue.

 

[straight reggie]

what up one love, i think for your next grow you should ditch the canna nutes and use something simple like flora nova. one bottle for grow and one for bloom. ive never had ne deficiencies since ive been growing. maybe a lil mag def but nothing serious.

for your bug probs, try looking for that thread with the organic mite bug spray. i'll see if i cant locate it for you holmes. and did you take clones from the plants, or are you gonna have to start from seed next time? i would suggest lst'ing and grow bushes

peep my bushes out @ day 18 12/12

 

[Pirate138]

The brown tips on your leaves are what burning looks like or overferting. Also if you are seeing speckled patterns on leaves you probably have spider mites. I just had a small outbreak myself. Look under some leaves and see if you see tiny black dots moving. I would get Avid or Floramite for spider mites, neem wont do much against em at this point.

 

[1love1earth]

I don't think they are mites, only because the black specks are rare, and don't move, and look alot like the "thrip poop" shown in other pics.

That and the shiny sheen stuff looks like thrip as well.

Regardless I've backed off a tad on the nutes, hitting harder with PK, 1.3-1.4 EC mix, going to water again today.

I'm definately going to LST the hell out of my clones.

The thread I read was real good. Explains LST'ing is more than just about training the plant, but actually stimulating hormones to cause beefy growth.

It's all about keeping the upper most node/shoot down lower than another.

So I've tied them back and will continue to.

 

[Green Force]

Hopefully you are spraying during right before lights go off. It looks like some of those burns may be spray burns from the light.

lol NEVER LET UR GIRLS GO TO BED WET!!!!!!!!!!!!!! INSTANT MOLD AND NEVER SPRAY LATE IN FLOWER IMO.....................................


i spray neem oil every now and then i dont get burn spots

 

[MedTokeRx]

have you checked your PH? Next time you water water them untill water comes out the bottom and test it. if your PH is off your plant wont be able to obsorb some nutrients and it will look like a difficiency. as for your pest problem i've only had thrips and a couple sprayings with neem oil and they were gone.

 

[1love1earth]

I'll take the crystals off.

However it is coco, and everything I've read/heard says not to treat coco like soil, but rather keep it wet, manual hydro style.

One thing I've noticed now is that the new leaf growth seems off. It looks mutated, like the blades are indistinct, causing the leaf to look "flat", these are the new leaves growing out of the buds.

I'm not too worried about mold, there is extremely good airflow, and with 50 watts per sq ft in that small area, water evaporates and gets sucked out pretty quick.

There also is no standing water from waterings, I wet vac all the runoff up when I water.

It very well could be PH related, I've noticed that if I have some leftover nutrient/water mix, after 1-2 days the PH will migrate from 5.7-5.8 where I started, all the way up to 6.2-6.4

I've also noticed that the amount of PH down (acid) it's taking to drop my PH is MUCH higher when using PK13/14. It almost made me sketch on my meter.

Also it seems like to get from 6.6 to 6.0 takes quite a bit, while to get from 6.0 to 5.6 can take much less, and I've overshot my mark several times now, which is easily corrected, I just add a tad bit of "liquid sand" silica which brings it back up real quick.

However that migration of PH in the watering tub likely means the same thing is happening in the pots, which means I really need to water every day, rather than every other day.

Next time I'm going to use sqare pots that fit in trays, and keep everything nice and neat.

Vac up all the runoff from the tray, it's much easier than vac'ing it up off my poly film floor.

I'm uncertain as to whether or not the leaf mutation is due to my PK boosting.

In general, most of the plants were showing signs of nitrogen overload, real dark green leaves.

However I don't feel I'm "off" as far as flowering schedual goes. It seems right on track, just a few weeks behind normal time, likely due to tying them down.

More distinct colas are starting to emerge, with thicker growth.

There are still alot of immature buds however, and I'm wondering if I should leave them alone, or chop all of them off.

If I was to get rid of all of them, I would be getting rid of a TON of growth, or at least a ton of budsites.

My thought in leaving them is that as the larger (and older/more mature) ones get ripe, and get harvested, the younger ones will still develop into something.

If I'm better off chopping them all off, let me know, but there are LOTS of them.

I'll have to take some detailed pics to illustrate it.

 

[paulobaca]

your looks like thrips, they are hard to find. Ive had infestation where I had to sit there for 30 minutes focused just to find one but the trails were all over. Trails are a definate sign, they look a lil like mini snail trails, they have that reflective rainbow on em. Almost all thrip activity is on top of the leaves while mites are on the bottoms.
Thrips are smart too, not like mites, they are good at running and hiding when they feel movement or wind.

I know no pest strips are shady but you are in a tight spot, spraying buds can easily cause mold, which in my book would be much more harmful.

If you check the spinosad threads you will see only takes 2 applications about 10 days apart so even if you are using sprays, it shouldnt take alot.
Careful spraying those buds. If you have a dehumid I would crank it right after spraying.

Good luck
Your next grow will be a lot better and easier.

 

[peterpan]

Man slow your roll, you are making this way complicated. its a weed and a good thing its because it they were any other type of plant they would be dead already. stop everything and just water them when they dry out. your killing them with love, its easy to get over excited about growing weed but believe me less is more.


blockhead grown in soil and water. you dont have to that little but but you certainly dont have to make it lab experiment. You are doing fine just take your time and remember everytime you add something it changes something else and then when you run into trouble its almost impossible to try and find it.peace