Where's the electrician?

[Jam Master Jaco]

you have a neutral and a hot wire on the same lag?
your using a white wire for power?

the color of a wire doesn't matter unless you're trying to be completely up to code, and having a neutral wire and a hot wire on the same leg is impossible, that's called a short circuit. sorry but i had to answer that question.

*edit* sry man i didn't even look at his pic before quoting u I was just trying to sound smart.

but hey clowntown you've got a white wire on the 2nd connection to the right going to ground, that ain't gonna work....or is it? i dunno i'm tired. i do basic electrical but i am no electrician. ask cocktail frank if you want someone who knows his shit.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

No, has electrical tape around it from slightly scratching the jacket on the ground. Had it been any other wire, I would have just pulled more and snipped it off, but being ground I thought electrical tape that I already had in my hand was an easier, lazier solution.

I'm not looking at a ground conductor, but rather the first wire in the lug next to the ground. It's either a black wire with funky lighting, or it is a formerly white wire that has seen some heat.

 

[PharmaCan]

you have a neutral and a hot wire on the same lag?
your using a white wire for power?

In a 240 volt installation where no neutral is required, it is very common to use the white wire for power. Take a look at almost every 240 volt base board heater in the country and you will see an example of this.

PC

 

[clowntown]

I'm not looking at a ground conductor, but rather the first wire in the lug next to the ground. It's either a black wire with funky lighting, or it is a formerly white wire that has seen some heat.

Looks straight up black to me, in both the pictures and in person. The 10awg wire going into the first lug with the white clock motor wire, right? Not really sure how that can possibly resemble anything but black and always black. Maybe I need to have my eyes checked?

 

[clowntown]

you have a neutral and a hot wire on the same lag?
your using a white wire for power?

I didn't think the wire color was that important? I mean, power running through the same wire with white insulation works just as well as power running through the same wire with pink, purple, gray, yellow, or poka-dotted insulation, doesn't it?

I have no neutral, and require no neutral. If I wired a neutral, that wire would just go unused.

Not exactly Hollywood-style bomb defusing situation where some member in the bomb squad is telling another member remotely by phone on what color wire to cut to defuse the bomb, w/o any knowledge of what's connected to where.

 

[clowntown]

the color of a wire doesn't matter unless you're trying to be completely up to code, and having a neutral wire and a hot wire on the same leg is impossible, that's called a short circuit. sorry but i had to answer that question.

*edit* sry man i didn't even look at his pic before quoting u I was just trying to sound smart.

but hey clowntown you've got a white wire on the 2nd connection to the right going to ground, that ain't gonna work....or is it? i dunno i'm tired. i do basic electrical but i am no electrician. ask cocktail frank if you want someone who knows his shit.

White wire going to ground? Where? Wow you guys are making some "white to white, black to black" thing so extremely complicated. I know we're all stoners, but c'mon.

The only "problem" I've found so far with my setup is that the color motor wasn't properly grounded, apparently, although it technically it was being grounded by the metal-clad flex armored cable running to the box with metal clamps. It's been corrected with a jumper as PharmaCan suggested.

 

[PharmaCan]

Is that insulation jacket toasted?

The insulation has a clear plastic layer on the outside. What you are seeing is the clear plastic separated from the inner black insulation. It's not uncommon to do that when bending a stiff wire with a pair of pliers (long-nose, whatever) that have the grooved jaws.

PC

 

[luciano28]

The insulation has a clear plastic layer on the outside. What you are seeing is the clear plastic separated from the inner black insulation. It's not uncommon to do that when bending a stiff wire with a pair of pliers (long-nose, whatever) that have the grooved jaws.

PC

Yep and there is some glare on it from the lighting and does sort of look like a white toasty wire but its definitely a black wire. I can see how hoosier thought that. Looks like a couple nicks in the insulation though on the bend? But everything looks good. I wish you guys would mark your whites when you use them as hots but I'm anal about that shit.

Looks good to me clowntown.

 

[crizzo]

you can only use 80 percent of a breaker so a 40 amp breaker can only run 32 amps max or you will wear down the breaker fast, plus the breaker will get real hot. 32 amps = 3840 watts on a 120 system and 7680 watts on a 240 power system.

If your wanting to switch two or more different breakers with the same timer, then get a lighting contactor and hook the time clock the coil side/switching side of the contactor and the the breakers thought the terminals of the contactor.

 

[crizzo]

and clown town, from what I can see your timer seems to be wired wrong but not to far off, what it looks like you have is a intermatic 2 pole timer with what i can see take 240 volt to power it, In this case the terminal the your grounds are hook to is not used and is fine the way you have it, but i would jumper a wire from that terminal to the green ground screw on the face.

proper grounding and bonding will save your life, your home and your crop...


I hope this helps out,

 

[crizzo]

and as for dr.snow's ?. yes you can run a 50 amp timer off a 40 amp breaker, but you only going to pull 40 amps thought it, its not a bad idea because you will never overload you timer, just the breaker.

you can only change out the 40 amp breaker for the 50 amp breaker if the wire size is #6, It is most likely #8 . but check the side of the wire, it will be printed on it.

 

[PharmaCan]

you can only use 80 percent of a breaker so a 40 amp breaker can only run 32 amps max or you will wear down the breaker fast, plus the breaker will get real hot.

This is silly. You could continuously run 40 amps through a 40 amp breaker for the next 50 years and it'll work fine. The reason for not exceeding 80% of the rating is to accommodate surges that occur when things are turned on. Also, the breaker will trip before it gets real hot; that's what it's designed to do.

PC

 

[crizzo]

why you got to go bag on someone that is trying to help.

the national electric code book states 80 precent for a reason, and I gave this info to help people and keep there crops from burning.
I dont know how much electrical experience you have, but a breaker will trip before you get to 40 amps.
and if you are running 40 amps on a 40 amp breaker and the it surges as you say wouldnt that trip the breaker?

you are either here to help or do harm
and telling people that running 40 amps on a 40amp breaker is ok just shows your here to do harm.

and your statement just proves your no electrician.

I am not trying to start sh**, just stating that it is not cool that you are PC.

 

[crizzo]

Most commonly available circuit breakers are rated to carry no more than 80% of their nominal rating continuously (3 hours or more) (NEC Art. 100).

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Liability dictates that industry engineer most all consumer goods to a factor of 80%.
And for good reasons.
When we are engineering a system for use in our own home, or a place where the safety of our loved ones and others is concerned, we are simply being irresponsible if we do not adhere to the 80% margins.

I have always said that if we stick to the industry codes (NEC, CEC in this instance) we can't go wrong, and we will never place our loved ones or our treasures at unnecessary risk.

 

[clowntown]

and clown town, from what I can see your timer seems to be wired wrong but not to far off, what it looks like you have is a intermatic 2 pole timer with what i can see take 240 volt to power it, In this case the terminal the your grounds are hook to is not used and is fine the way you have it, but i would jumper a wire from that terminal to the green ground screw on the face.

proper grounding and bonding will save your life, your home and your crop...

Thanks; I found this out last week and jumpered it per PharmaCan's recommendation:

 

[PharmaCan]

why you got to go bag on someone that is trying to help.

the national electric code book states 80 precent for a reason, and I gave this info to help people and keep there crops from burning.
I dont know how much electrical experience you have, but a breaker will trip before you get to 40 amps.
and if you are running 40 amps on a 40 amp breaker and the it surges as you say wouldnt that trip the breaker?

you are either here to help or do harm
and telling people that running 40 amps on a 40amp breaker is ok just shows your here to do harm.

and your statement just proves your no electrician.

I am not trying to start sh**, just stating that it is not cool that you are PC.

Well, the information you gave was incorrect. Breakers don't wear out by having current pass through them. Breakers also do not get real hot; they trip first.

Secondly, there's a big difference between "could" and "should". Most people recognize that a hypothetical prefaced by "could" is not a recommendation.

I'm not going to argue with you or trade insults. However, I might just correct your bad information; regardless of the spirit in which was given.

PC

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Pharma, I have to respectfully say that you are wrong on this one.
Unless you have a 100% duty cycle industrial type breaker, which I guarantee nobody here has in their panel box, then the rating for the circuit breaker is 80% of the rated amperage for 100% duty cycle. The unit is only supposed to protect at full rating for intermittent amperage surges past 80% of rated amperage.

Yes, these items are supposed to trip when overloaded, and they will. But just bringing them within 10% of their stated rating and they will see heat. They may not trip, but they see a overage of heat, and heat in time will break down the components of the breaker.

This is a know fact, and exactly why it is the way it is in the code book.

Design your system with the 80% margin in mind (as intended), and you will not go wrong.
Engineering your system to the 100% duty cycle mark with an 80% rated item is simply not smart and should NOT be advised to anyone else. That sort of trick really should be for personal consumption only.

 

[PharmaCan]

Pharma, I have to respectfully say that you are wrong on this one.
Unless you have a 100% duty cycle industrial type breaker, which I guarantee nobody here has in their panel box, then the rating for the circuit breaker is 80% of the rated amperage for 100% duty cycle. The unit is only supposed to protect at full rating for intermittent amperage surges past 80% of rated amperage.

Yes, these items are supposed to trip when overloaded, and they will. But just bringing them within 10% of their stated rating and they will see heat. They may not trip, but they see a overage of heat, and heat in time will break down the components of the breaker.

This is a know fact, and exactly why it is the way it is in the code book.

Design your system with the 80% margin in mind (as intended), and you will not go wrong.
Engineering your system to the 100% duty cycle mark with an 80% rated item is simply not smart and should NOT be advised to anyone else. That sort of trick really should be for personal consumption only.

I am not, and did not mean to sound like I was, advocating exceeding the norms of standard wiring practices. Hell, as far as I'm concerned "overkill" is the operative when it comes to wiring. It's just so easy to exceed minimum standards, one would have to be really stupid to push the limits.

My point is that breakers don't normally "wear out" from normal usage nor do they get real hot because they are designed to trip first.

PC

 

[crizzo]

you got the perfect quote for yourself , you are the most ignorant idiot I have come across here so far, I even provided the the code section in the nec( National Electrical code) code book, and your trying to call bullshit on me. but where is you information coming from to back up your claim.

I am not going to argue with you, because its obvious your not going to understand.
I have got alot of info from this site, and all I am trying to do is give something back.

best of luck to the rest of you.