Regarding hermaphrodism in Thailand Sativas...

[Hal]

A question for those much more knowledgeable than me: I have been reading threads lately that include commentary on growing/breeding sativas that are known to suffer from hermaphrodism, like Thai, for instance.

It made me wonder, how can the seeds gathered from things like Thai Stick, when grown out, end up showing hermaphrodism so frequently. In Thailand, these must be grown outdoors, with less control over environmental factors, and if the plants grown from their seeds end up being hermaphrodite, wouldn't their parents have the same tendency?

So, that brought 2 things to my mind....first, are these plants so sensitive to their environment that the slightest variation from their natural habitat would knock them into producing hermies? Or, second, is it possible that these male flowers being produced by the plants are sterile, and that when grown even in Thailand, these plants are showing hermie male flowers, but the growers know they aren't viable, and just ignore them?

It seems like with the amount of experimentation happening with the multitude of cannabis breeders going on, someone would have tested the viability of the hermaphrodite flowers, its kind of a simple question, really. I can't be the first to think it. But sometimes strange things happen in the world.

So....is anyone aware of somebody who tested the viability of the Thai hermaphrodites? On a large scale, I don't think just testing one or two plants would do the question justice. Somehow I can't imagine Thai growers putting up with plants that are genetically prone to this condition.

 

[gramsci.antonio]

some pesticides cause herm.

 

[trichburner]

There's a lot of speculation but nothing conclusive . Many things to consider . In a nut shell here's what I've gathered so far from all the speculation I've read . If anyone knows different , then please correct .

One is stress induced by man and man-made chemicals . But that wouldn't explain why the intersex characteristic shows up in well tended gardens where the plants are pampered their whole lives . Intersex is in the genes .

Your first point about being removed from it's native environment is very possible . That would indicate that hermaphrodism is an inherited recessive trait , call it a "survival mode" . For the hermies that show up in their native environment , it would be a dominate trait from adaptation to an already harsh environment .

Your second point is less likely but still a possibility . Other factors to consider are maybe the people who have been growing these strains since antiquity are tolerant and have just accepted intersexed plant as a fact of life . They don't concern themselves with the seeds produced since the seeds will be tossed right back into the ground for the next season .

Another possibility that I have heard vaguely alluded to is a possibility in which hermaphrodite drug cultivars show a predisposition to producing the cannabinoids and terpenes that produce the long lasting , energetic , psychedelic highs that have made these cultivars famous .

I would like to hear Sam or Charles Xavier chime in on this topic . This is not exclusive to Thai grass only , but includes a large percentage of cannabis both wild and "farmed" (drug and fiber/seed hemp) lines from tropical and subtropic regions .

The only reason why Hermaphrodites have been demonized is due to the loss of yield on a profitable product . Much of Southeast Asia does not smoke flowers . They smoke Charas . Central Asia is predominately a Hashish consuming region .

 

[Hal]

Great points, Trich.

My personal experience with Thai Stick has been limited, and nothing recent, only back in the 70's when I first started smoking. But from what I have been reading here on IC, it seems that folks who want to find seeds in this type of weed have to look real hard, and are lucky if they find a few seeds per stick (or was it per ounce?). Anyway, it seems that there is pollination happening, just a very limited amount. If these plants are experiencing normal hermaphrodism, wouldn't there be a lot more fertilization taking place?

The scenario that I wonder about it this.....growers spend time learning their way around breeding, gaining experience with time. Almost all the plants they work with are similar when it comes to hermaphrodism, that when it happens, it is a very good sign that your plants will have their flowers fertilized, and this will make their product worth much less, so they get in the habit of chopping any female that even begins to show male flowers on female plants. They never let these plants flower till maturity to actually see if seeds develop.

In the above scenario, no grower ever bothers to ask the question, "are all hermaphrodite male flowers the same...are some hermaphrodite male flowers actually not sterile, and if so, no threat to fertilizing my female plants?" Leading them to do an experiment, with a significant number of plants, to actually test whether these hermaphrodite male flowers pose a fertilization risk. I'm not doing the best job of conveying my thoughts here, my apologies, but do you get my general drift?

Has anyone ever bothered to test this with a nice size grow?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Hermi male flowers on female plants can be fertile or sterile.
The reason Thai is so hermi is because the Thais have a tradition of growing sinsemilla.
This causes most seed to be produced in the sinsi to be from hermis not true males as the thai farmers would of killed any males to get a sinsi crop. When a farmer uses seeds caused by hermi flowers then the resulting seeds have hermi genes in them. Do this for hundreds of years and the incidence of hermi genes gets higher and higher.

-SamS

 

[Hal]

Hi Sam,

Thanks for chipping in. You are a bit of a guru, I would have one more question of ya if you stumble back in here...

If a person was to grow out a female Thai sativa, and she started sprouting hermies, and if that plant was allowed to fully mature, would the buds be filled with seeds or would there be only a few? I realize this is a massive generalization, but I'm just wondering, in general, how problematic those male hermie flowers would likely be.

Thanks for helping me with my question.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Each hermi is different. Are the hermi flowers fertile? Are they functionally sterile? The main thing is how many male flowers. And will they be blown though the whole crop? They can just make a few seeds very close to the male flowers or make lots all through the whole crop.

-SamS

 

[marijuanamat]

1 of the first plants i ever grew were a pair of thai's from seeds i found in a few gram when i was 15-16 and both were female hermi's looking back at it now,both thai's were harvested in mid nov and were both full of imature seeds,but at the time i didn't know jack shit about growing so didn't know what i was looking at and thought that was the way all ganja grew until i actually started reading up on the subject and started buying seeds in 93-94.