Electrical Design Help

[Ghosts]

In a few months (or so) I'm hiring a pro to install a new main panel for my house.

While he's here, I want him to wire my room.

1kW in flower
430W in veg
Flos and heat mat for cloning and seedlings
2 osc circ fans
6" vortex for exhaust
a bit more than once a week, I run a water pump for a while...

I come in at just under 17 amps.

I'd like a window a/c...8-12KBTU
(currently using cent a/c!)

Thats another 6 amps (+/-)

That's 23 amps

All @ 120V

How many circuits do I need?
What kind? (GFCI?) (AFCI?)


BTW, I'm figuring that my wife does porcelin sculptures, and now wants to do it at home...
We need a kiln...
and other bs...

Any thoughts?

 

[PharmaCan]

Is the kiln your excuse for needing the upgrade in that room or are you telling us about your wife's hobbies? lol If it's your story, I'd think most kilns are 240v so you might want to think of something else.

If you are adding a circuit(s) to this room, getting the first wire in there is the expensive part. When doing a job like this for myself, I always install more than my immediate needs, just to make any future upgrades easier and cheaper.

I would put the a/c on it's own circuit, just so that it can surge on without bothering anything else, then two additional 20 amp circuits. That's a bit of overkill, but if you just go with the minimum you can get by with, you're maxed out from the git-go.

JMO

PC

 

[luciano28]

Is the kiln your excuse for needing the upgrade in that room or are you telling us about your wife's hobbies? lol If it's your story, I'd think most kilns are 240v so you might want to think of something else.

If you are adding a circuit(s) to this room, getting the first wire in there is the expensive part. When doing a job like this for myself, I always install more than my immediate needs, just to make any future upgrades easier and cheaper.

I would put the a/c on it's own circuit, just so that it can surge on without bothering anything else, then two additional 20 amp circuits. That's a bit of overkill, but if you just go with the minimum you can get by with, you're maxed out from the git-go.

JMO

PC

Thats all good advice, I would do exactly what he just said. 3 runs of #12 wire from the panel.

If you can wire thats all I would ask the guy to do, you should be able to do the rest inside the room, tell him its gonna be your game-room or something. Save some chedda and put the receptacles and whatnot in yourself if you can. Especially if plan to use GFCI plugs which you probably should, electrican will charge an extra $5-$10 for each plug just because they are GFCI, they easier to wire than a regular in my opinion, line, load , line, load.

 

[Ghosts]

Is the kiln your excuse for needing the upgrade in that room or are you telling us about your wife's hobbies? lol If it's your story, I'd think most kilns are 240v so you might want to think of something else.

LOL...I gotta go with some other story...LOL! Thanks for the heads up!
(I haven't really researched that yet...)

If you are adding a circuit(s) to this room, getting the first wire in there is the expensive part. When doing a job like this for myself, I always install more than my immediate needs, just to make any future upgrades easier and cheaper.

I would put the a/c on it's own circuit, just so that it can surge on without bothering anything else, then two additional 20 amp circuits. That's a bit of overkill, but if you just go with the minimum you can get by with, you're maxed out from the git-go.

JMO

PC

Hey PharmaCan!
Thanks for the advice!
That's along the lines I was thinking...but yeah, it seems like overkill...
So, I thought I'd check in here to get some opinions.

I am kinda thinking:
a/c on dedicated 20 amp circuit.
1kW on a dedicated 20 amp circuit.
430W, 6" Vortex fan, and all the rest on the 3rd 20 amp circuit.

 

[Ghosts]

Thats all good advice, I would do exactly what he just said. 3 runs of #12 wire from the panel.

Good to know...

If you can wire thats all I would ask the guy to do, you should be able to do the rest inside the room, tell him its gonna be your game-room or something.
Save some chedda and put the receptacles and whatnot in yourself if you can.

DIY on the recepticles is a possibility.
One of the three runs will need multiple recepticles.
I'm still figuring placement for all recepticles...

Thanks for the game room tip!

Especially if plan to use GFCI plugs which you probably should, electrican will charge an extra $5-$10 for each plug just because they are GFCI, they easier to wire than a regular in my opinion, line, load , line, load.

Hey luciano28, thanks for the input!

Do you (or anyone) think there is any advantage to GFCI breakers over outlets?

 

[jipedestran]

20 amps is almost double what you need for that 1000.

three 20 amp circuits will be fine, you will have all the juice you need and can go bigger if need be.

but don't be afraid to DIY.....sparky doesn't hold the electrical keys. just make sure you do it right.

A whole new main panel is out of your league (and mine as well) , but once the panel is in, all you are doing is adding circuits.

peace
jip

 

[luciano28]

Good to know...


DIY on the recepticles is a possibility.
One of the three runs will need multiple recepticles.
I'm still figuring placement for all recepticles...

Thanks for the game room tip!



Hey luciano28, thanks for the input!

Do you (or anyone) think there is any advantage to GFCI breakers over outlets?

What does the GFCI breaker cost? Id still probably feel good with the plugs, it would stop it right there if there was a problem like water. Im not real familiar with the GFCI breaker but I think I remember them being costly, and you would need 3 of them. But someone with more experience with residential can probably give you a more detailed answer on that, but I would probably like my protection to be in the room and not back at the panel. Thats just the way Im thinking. If those breakers dont cost too much, both wouldnt hurt if you got the extra cash, but like the outlet the electrician might charge more to install the GFCI breaker, depends on how he does his bids and if you know the guy. If you dont know the guy, he might start licking his chops when you start talking GFCI breakers if they cost considerably more.

Edit: quick google search, confirmed they are costly

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/section-27.html

Edit 2, lol: If you go the outlet route, I suggest buying a bigger box if you can find one, the GFCI outlets suck trying to stuff in a standard size switch/plug work box.

Edit 3, lmao: you only need 1 GFCI per circuit and all the rest down the line will be also Ground Fault protected, they usually provide little stickers you put on the regular outlets to mark it as being protected. So that makes me think the breakers are a big ole waste of money

 

[Ghosts]

20 amps is almost double what you need for that 1000.

three 20 amp circuits will be fine, you will have all the juice you need and can go bigger if need be.

but don't be afraid to DIY.....sparky doesn't hold the electrical keys. just make sure you do it right.

A whole new main panel is out of your league (and mine as well) , but once the panel is in, all you are doing is adding circuits.

peace
jip

Cool man.
Thanks for the vote of confidence!

What does the GFCI breaker cost? Id still probably feel good with the plugs, it would stop it right there if there was a problem like water. Im not real familiar with the GFCI breaker but I think I remember them being costly, and you would need 3 of them. But someone with more experience with residential can probably give you a more detailed answer on that, but I would probably like my protection to be in the room and not back at the panel. Thats just the way Im thinking. If those breakers dont cost too much, both wouldnt hurt if you got the extra cash, but like the outlet the electrician might charge more to install the GFCI breaker, depends on how he does his bids and if you know the guy. If you dont know the guy, he might start licking his chops when you start talking GFCI breakers if they cost considerably more.

Edit: quick google search, confirmed they are costly

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/section-27.html

That's a good point about having the protection in the room...
I appreciate the search, liciano.

When it comes time, I'll get the regular breakers and go with the GFCI outlets.

 

[PharmaCan]

Once upon a time many kitchen appliances had detachable cords that people would pull out of the appliance but leave plugged into a receptacle. Toddlers would come along and stick a live cord in their mouth, and idiot adults would drop them in water, or wash with wet sponge while standing barefoot on a concrete floor. Then there were the idiots who would try to dry their hair while standing in the bathtub. This led to the GFCI breaker, which in turn led to the GFCI receptacle. GFCI's will trip when exposed to the slightest bit of moisture, so there are times to use them and times not to use them. In any event, they were designed to protect children and idiots. If you don't fit into either category, you don't really need them. GFCI's, IMHO, are not appropriate for grow rooms. They trip too easily, and not just for moisture reasons. Follow basic electrical safety precautions and also always wear shoes in your grow room, you'll be fine without the GFCI's.

GFCI receptacles cost under $10, hardly a noticeable increase in cost when doing the kind of job you are talking about, so to use or not to use should be based on the facts of your grow-op, not the cost of the receptacle.

PC

 

[Ghosts]

Once upon a time many kitchen appliances had detachable cords that people would pull out of the appliance but leave plugged into a receptacle. Toddlers would come along and stick a live cord in their mouth, and idiot adults would drop them in water, or wash with wet sponge while standing barefoot on a concrete floor. Then there were the idiots who would try to dry their hair while standing in the bathtub.

LOL. Good mental pics...

This led to the GFCI breaker, which in turn led to the GFCI receptacle. GFCI's will trip when exposed to the slightest bit of moisture, so there are times to use them and times not to use them. In any event, they were designed to protect children and idiots. If you don't fit into either category, you don't really need them.

I gotcha.

GFCI's, IMHO, are not appropriate for grow rooms. They trip too easily, and not just for moisture reasons. Follow basic electrical safety precautions and also always wear shoes in your grow room, you'll be fine without the GFCI's.

That makes sense.
I understand what you are saying about the designed purpose of GFCI.
I appreciate your honesty.

Jeez. I'm always barefooted in my room. ...but, your right...

Just to cover my ass, you got any more of 'dem fancy "basic electrical safety precautions"?
(...seems like there was a thread....I'll have to do some looking...)

GFCI receptacles cost under $10, hardly a noticeable increase in cost when doing the kind of job you are talking about, so to use or not to use should be based on the facts of your grow-op, not the cost of the receptacle.

PC

Agreed.

You've been very helpful, PC.
Thanks a lot!

 

[G33k Speak]

I tried using GFI breakers and those damn things would trip if you looked at them sternly.

PharmaCan has much more knowledge then I do on this subject, but if I'm the one sticking my hand into a tub of water and dicking around with pumps and whatnot that plug in, I'll take any extra insurance I can get.

I use GFI outlets, but they do seem to pop for unknown/unseen reasons.

 

[PharmaCan]

I tried using GFI breakers and those damn things would trip if you looked at them sternly.

PharmaCan has much more knowledge then I do on this subject, but if I'm the one sticking my hand into a tub of water and dicking around with pumps and whatnot that plug in, I'll take any extra insurance I can get.

I use GFI outlets, but they do seem to pop for unknown/unseen reasons.

Thanks!

To GFI or not to GFI, that is the question... lol

If it makes you feel more comfortable and safer, by all means GFI! Since Ghosts is talking about 2-3 new circuits, pumps etc. can be on a GFCI, lights on non-GFCI.

Electric shocks don't bother me so much - it's the burns you can get working around hot wires that can be troublesome. You short a metal tool between a hot and ground or two hots (240v) and molten metal goes flying everywhere and that stuff sticks and burns!

PC

 

[Ghosts]

Thanks!

To GFI or not to GFI, that is the question... lol

If it makes you feel more comfortable and safer, by all means GFI! Since Ghosts is talking about 2-3 new circuits, pumps etc. can be on a GFCI, lights on non-GFCI.

Electric shocks don't bother me so much - it's the burns you can get working around hot wires that can be troublesome. You short a metal tool between a hot and ground or two hots (240v) and molten metal goes flying everywhere and that stuff sticks and burns!

PC

Thats a nice option.

I'm in soil, but do use a small 250 gph pump for irrigation (a little less than an hour a week, or so).