Please Help: Canna Nutes, Hindu Kush Dripper Issues

[humble1]

Quote:
I've read of people having issues with bricked coir & chips, but I don't remember reading about anyone having issues due to a lack of pretreatment from the loose bagged coir.

I've gotten fungus gnats from bags of loose coco that were left too close to some organic soil mix.

Quote:
I believe H&G still recommends against the use of airstones on their Cocos A+B nutes (which is meant for DTW)

Call H&G's distributor, Humboldt Wholesale and ask them about the air stones in the res warning. Really, it's quite a funny story. They recommend H&G Aquaflakes for recirc coco.

Quote:
Res temps are solid at 70 degrees F (canopy kinda shades res)...
Do you think it would be devastating to the plants to remove from this screw-up dwc and re-pot in 2 gallon containers, switching to run-to-waste?

Res temps need to be lower. Period. Water chiller or fully covered res or both.
At 2-3 weeks flower you're not going to get an appreciable root gain by repotting. Just start feeding them dtw.

 

[clowntown]

I believe H&G still recommends against the use of airstones on their Cocos A+B nutes (which is meant for DTW)

Call H&G's distributor, Humboldt Wholesale and ask them about the air stones in the res warning. Really, it's quite a funny story.

Mind sharing the story?

 

[humble1]

Their main guy, Stephen, was down at the store and I asked him what was up with the warning.

He said that H&G had a test grower in vegas who they trusted to give reliable feedback on their product. He gave it a run and had severe problems that he blamed on aerating his res. He relays this message to H&G and the warning goes on the first pressing of labels and info sheets. As it turns out the problem was actually due to the temp in his res. Next batch should be without the warning.

 

[Bluestar]

Sorry, forgot to mention I'm using Botanicare compressed coco bricks.

ok, so you say to just suck it up and keep going, dwc using canna A+B?, pk 13/14, and bioboost? Is my situation gonna hurt my harvest in the end?

Only reason I'm thinking about repotting from the current system to the 2 gallon perfect pots is that I can give more room to the roots ( I know they're not going to grow to much more), but more importantly, I could make nutes fresh, feed running to waste, and have a much tighter control of the EC and PH at each feed. Am I thinking wrong? If so, please inform me, I can handle any criticism.

My original intention was to run a drip system with the botanicare coco bricks i use, but I never thought far ahead enough to think about roots growing into res, creating DWC.

After this mess, I'm going to start next time using solo cups, then moving to 6" square pots, and then onto the 2 gallon perfect pots for flowering, handwatering and run to waste. Does anybody see any issues with this plan, or can offer suggestions?

 

[humble1]

Brilliant.
Keep the drip, hand-watering coco's a bitch.
Just keep the roots out of the res.
Good finishing sizes for coco are either one gallon or two gallon containers. Smaller is too small and larger is only if you want freakin' trees that you'll be vegging a month or two.
Transplanting from a smaller size is a good idea, just give them time to root into their new containers.
so go ahead with the repot, it'll give you something to do with the extra roots.

 

[Bluestar]

Humble,

I appreciate all your feedback, but you gave to contradicting statements:


1) Res temps need to be lower. Period. Water chiller or fully covered res or both.
At 2-3 weeks flower you're not going to get an appreciable root gain by repotting. Just start feeding them dtw.



2) Brilliant.
Keep the drip, hand-watering coco's a bitch.
Just keep the roots out of the res.
Good finishing sizes for coco are either one gallon or two gallon containers. Smaller is too small and larger is only if you want freakin' trees that you'll be vegging a month or two.
Transplanting from a smaller size is a good idea, just give them time to root into their new containers.
so go ahead with the repot, it'll give you something to do with the extra roots.


Like I've said before, I'm new to indoors, and just trying to get a harvest, and learn on the way.

If you look at my pics, you'll see my res with a 1/4" thick peice of plywood covered with mylar to act as res cover. You'll also see why my drip system turned into a drip DWC system. The only place to put a res is under the plants, which leads to my current situation. I have no success with DWC, which is why I keep leaning towards the switch to to perfect pots.

 

[knna]

You can build an e&f table with near you has already. You just need a small water pump and install the fitting from the res to the table. Its the same configuration, and an e&f table is way less sensitive to res temps than DWC. 1 gal pots of coco is more than enough with that system, and the own water movements coming back to res on a waterfall oxigenate the res (an small airstone is recomended anyway, but its not strickly required).

 

[Bluestar]

knna,

thanks for looking and posting, but I think you misinterpreted my statement.

I'm not intentionally running a DWC. I was trying for a drip system, but like I've mentioned many time before, I'm new to indoors, and methods used.

My issue that I'm seeking guidance on is due to the issues I have, are my plants going to make a decent harvest in this current setup, or would it be a better bet to take out of current system and repot to 2gal perfect pots and just hand water? I believe they're about 2 1/2 weeks, ( paperwork was misplaced ) They're just starting to form flower sites.



My issue with current system:

1) Res is only about 5 gallons.
2) I PH down it twice a day (once at lights on and then at lights off)
Starting PH: 5.7
Swings up to : 6.8 Sometimes 7.2


So, again: SHOULD I SWITCH FROM DRIP/DWC TO 2 GALLON PERFECT POTS AND HAND WATER?

 

[bergerbuddy]

Hey gman,

I messed around for a few hours with all the pumps and airstones/wands, but nothing worked. I had air coming from both pumps with 8" of airline attached, but when hooked up to anything, no air. So I broke down and bought two new pumps, Whisper brand, and its working a treat. I've got to install the second one for my bubble cloner, and to buy a manifold to split airflow between two 8" wands.

On another note, I setup the res with the airstone 3x days ago, and noticed no change except that there now looks like white things floating in the water. I did a new res, fresh and clean, with new water and nutes. Roots still look white, just not sure what it is.

My current nutes are:

Canna A/B
Canna BioBoost
Canna PK 13/14
Earth Juice Natural PH Up/Down

Could the white stuff floating be a result of the bioboost? I'm going to post some pics of the res for clarification, along with the rest of my little space for any recommendations or advisements. Thanks for all your guidance so far, I really do appreciate it.

Hey bro,

I've been using the above setup now for 5 yrs.. Don't run the canna coco in a recirc if you want THE BEST results.... Use the canna coco substrate.. i've tried many and it is THE BEST too.. do a run to waste... with a good watering once a day and that will deliver FAT FANTASTIC HIGH QUALITY SHIT!!... peruse my indoor in my gallery.. that is ALL canna a/b coco rizo PK13/14 cannazyme..

If you have some cannazyme add it to your existing setup asap.. that will eat some of that algae.. add it at the rate of 10 oz. per 30 gal... or 10 ml per gal..

I've found that for most strains... and i've grown dozens n dozens.. with prby 50 different strains just in my gallery.. less is best... instead of the 700-1000 ppm canna suggest... I would recommend a flucuating ppm per watering... e.g. one watering or two waterings 650 ppm then one watering at 500 ppm then one watering at 700 ppm then down to 600 then maybe 650 then another 450-500 ppm.. the point being that every 3 or 4 dayz give it a very light ppm of 4-5 hundred and in between flucuate the PPM.. around the time snow cones are showing you can bump PPM's higher more often.. around 700... but ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS give it that light watering after 3 days... and don't give continuous waterings at high (700+)PPM..

Feeding like I described above will give shorter plants with very compact and dense floral clusters compared to the elonagated running buds with lots of stem in them and low calyx density in the buds you get with higher PPM of the canna coco... now some strains like Nebula Double dutch will benifit from higher PPM's but the quality and QUANTITY is the same or better from lower PPM's in my experience..

As you can tell I mix up new batchs of food every day.. (I use about 20 gals a day) and I don't feed em so much as they drain every time either... another advantage I get by feeding the low PPM feeding regularly.. I don't HAVE to water them to excess... I find plants grow better in coco if it is allowed to dry out just a bit... but IT DOES NEED TO BE WATERED EVERY DAY.. if that means you need to feed it less so they dry out... feed em less..

Anyways I hope some of my suggestions help you now and in the future..

Peace
BB

 

[Bluestar]

berger,

thanks for your response, it will be helpful in the future. I had enough of the issues with my current system, so I repotted into the 2 gallon perfect pots with fresh coco that was rehydrated with nuted + ph'd water. I then VERY CAREFULLY removed all plants without damage to 2x of the 3x girls. The one that had root damage was a 3" long chunk that was brown anyway (It's what prompted me to go through with the switch).

So, we'll see how they look tomorrow.

 

[knna]

knna,

thanks for looking and posting, but I think you misinterpreted my statement.

I'm not intentionally running a DWC. I was trying for a drip system, but like I've mentioned many time before, I'm new to indoors, and methods used.

My issue that I'm seeking guidance on is due to the issues I have, are my plants going to make a decent harvest in this current setup, or would it be a better bet to take out of current system and repot to 2gal perfect pots and just hand water? I believe they're about 2 1/2 weeks, ( paperwork was misplaced ) They're just starting to form flower sites.



My issue with current system:

1) Res is only about 5 gallons.
2) I PH down it twice a day (once at lights on and then at lights off)
Starting PH: 5.7
Swings up to : 6.8 Sometimes 7.2


So, again: SHOULD I SWITCH FROM DRIP/DWC TO 2 GALLON PERFECT POTS AND HAND WATER?

Maybe i was too concise. My answer tried to cover the full issue. So ill try this time to explain it better.

First off, as it has been noted, you main problem is the res is too small. Its reccomended to have at least 3 gal/sq ft to avoid the problems, specially the fast ph swing. So you need or upgrade your res to a bigger one or give up using it and go handwatering. Probably the second is the easier fix currently. Ive read your last post where you say you have done it :wink: Its a safe way of avoiding the problems, by handwatering run to waste and the easier way to harvest sucessfully you current grow.

But my answer were seeking deeper, for future grows. For your cab size, an e&f table with a bigger res is the perfect way to go to grow recirculating with coco: you use standard pots with it (1gal are perfect, and still smaller) but you have an automatic watering system wich allows you to recirculate, wich at the end is the best way of growing: almost no waste, absolute control of total feeding along the grow, no airstones required, flushing the coco each flood...

Any style of growing of the many avalaible have a learning curve. You should accept your results arent going to be optimal when you start a new system. But you should try to keep using it at least 2-3 grows to know what you can get of it, as the first one is often a continous lesson of what not to do in the future. Switching to DWC with such a small res wasnt the right movement when first problems with your drip setup arised. But im sure you wont do it again

Anyway, your plant arnt doing bad, so dont get excesivelly concerned. Accept your yield and try to get a higher one next grow, thats the right way to be a good grower. And many times assuming some risks worth at the end, still when it cost you yield, because of what you learn for future grows. You are been able to grow those plants fine with such an small res, so feel proud of your growing skills But there is always room to improve. I was offering advice for the next run.

You had transplanted your plants to a 2gal pots and will go handwatering run to waste until you harvest. Its a wise movement to ensure a decent yield. But i think trying to finish with your old setup had not been bad, although you will harvested less. Thats why i didnt state any opinion about it and just offered advice about future grows. I didnt see your plants fucked at all, so i dont believe the transplant was stricktly required, still being a nice option. Otherwise, i would adviced you to do the transplant.

On a side note, you let your plants overgrow. They are at least 1' taller than they should be according to you cab size and lighting setup. Its a typical mistake of outdoor to indoor growers, and newbies to growing in general. Indoor yield is mainly limited by light, and taller plants than your lighting setup may bud sucessfully is a waste of time and resources. I say this because your cab have height enough, and you still can use a bigger res without height problems, as far as you keep your plants shorter.

Good luck with the transplant,
knna

 

[Bluestar]

I appreciate you're in-depth advice, like I said I will be taking it to heart the next time around.


I was concerned because I was having such huge swings in such a small time frame, wasn't sure how the plants were going to react. I have to admit, things are much easier now. My eye isn't really on the quantity, but more the quality.

I tried before with some bagseed, got to the end, and I did something wrong, still not sure what. Were healthy all the way through, only difference was I used Kool-Bloom dry instead of pk 13/14. They smelled really good, looked good, but they never really filled in. So because of that, I'm a little paranoid about this time around, not trying to waste another 4 months for something I can't use in the end.

I really didn't mean to start this as a dwc, like I said, I wasn't thinking of the roots growing straight down. And because of the small size of cabinet, the only way I could come up with for a recirc drip was how I did it. Like I said before, not enough foresight for the whole grow, just the immediate issue.

I know they are a little taller than they should be, but they were only 12"-18" tall at time of flower, and they're almost 3 weeks if I remember correctly, so stretch should be minimal now, right?

My setup will be changing next time, geared toward 6x clones going in to veg for 1x week, then forced flower. I don't have access to clones, so everything has to come from seed, just trying to find a mom.

 

[norcalkell]

I use Canna Cogr for my tanks that recycle.. I saw the canna rep in the store and he said Canna Cogr line was made for recycled. I use a 69 gal res and change it every 5-7 days.. I had to adjust my PH down all the time.. I switched to the advanced nutes PHdown and love it because i was using so much of the other brand, i think it was GH ph down . The airstones will really help. When I drain my tank I give it a good power wash w/ the hose. Do you have well water??

 

[humble1]

Sorry my previous post here seemed misleading.

Knna once again illustrated why my statements weren't contradictory and every other fact that needed raising. Listen to Knna.
Every grow is a learning experience.
Pick one style of grow and learn it like the back of your hand.
My first was outdoors in soil, my second in a closet DWC..... and on and on....
until I figured out that coco DTW is a match made in heaven.
P.S. that first crop with the KoolBloom needn't be a total write off. You could have used the lower quality harvest for water hash, oil or edibles.....
just my .02

 

[bergerbuddy]

I appreciate you're in-depth advice, like I said I will be taking it to heart the next time around.


I was concerned because I was having such huge swings in such a small time frame, wasn't sure how the plants were going to react. I have to admit, things are much easier now. My eye isn't really on the quantity, but more the quality.

I tried before with some bagseed, got to the end, and I did something wrong, still not sure what. Were healthy all the way through, only difference was I used Kool-Bloom dry instead of pk 13/14. They smelled really good, looked good, but they never really filled in. So because of that, I'm a little paranoid about this time around, not trying to waste another 4 months for something I can't use in the end.

I really didn't mean to start this as a dwc, like I said, I wasn't thinking of the roots growing straight down. And because of the small size of cabinet, the only way I could come up with for a recirc drip was how I did it. Like I said before, not enough foresight for the whole grow, just the immediate issue.

I know they are a little taller than they should be, but they were only 12"-18" tall at time of flower, and they're almost 3 weeks if I remember correctly, so stretch should be minimal now, right?

My setup will be changing next time, geared toward 6x clones going in to veg for 1x week, then forced flower. I don't have access to clones, so everything has to come from seed, just trying to find a mom.

Howdy Bluestar-

I have experienced what you describe here myself... I traced it to feeding the plants PK 13/14 TO EARLY in the budding cycle..
I've noticed that both PK and that canna Bloom Boost... can cause premature bud maturation.. undeveloped buds start having their calyx's swell like they have seeds in them and ripen.. BEFORE THE GIRTH IS FULLY THERE..

I don't use PK until the BEGINNING of the 6th week.. sometimes.. if the buds are filling in slowly.. or if the plant is a 10wker.. I even wait till the 7th..

I DON'T USE CANNA BLOOM BOOST.. either the organic or the non-organic... while I do like the taste the shit gives.. I just don't like its effects on some strains... some do well.. but strains like OG Kush or Bubba or KUSH in general doesn't do well FOR ME with this shit compared to just not using it..

You will be very very happy with plain canna coco in 3 gallon bucket... give the plants 2 wks of veg... throw em into bud and wallah.. 2+ ounces of QUALITY meds.. with some kronk (small crystal bud garbage) left over too..

Don't fall for the watering em until they drain 10% crap... I mean.. it works sure.. but you will get SO MUCH BETTER QUALITY SHIT by feeding every day with a LOW PPM and a variant PH between 5.6 - 6.2.. then just water the plant enough so that it is dry on the top the next day.. usually around 3-4 wks in bud the plants are at their peak eating.. and from 3-5 wks they make take more water than at 2 or 6 wks.. but if you water by hand... vs. the drip... you'll do much better..

I was a big dripper... I grow several plants and liked the idea of automation etc.. specially when the plants are bigger and packing around each other.. but what I have done that works is...

I take a 30 gallon garbage can.. that I filter water into... usually takes a 12 hours to fill... then I mix it up at the rate for the day.. and take the pump that used to run my drippers and I hook a garden hose to it.. and use the hose to water each plant kinking the hose in between plants..
This method allows me to water 60 plants in about 15 mins.. and I see each ones base each nite... if it is dark.. i.e. not completely dry I give er a little less... if she is light and I can see that the coco in the holes at the bottom of the bucket is light to.. I'll pour it on.. BUT NOT SOAK THE SHIT OUT OF IT.. DON'T DO THAT.. unless of course the plant is so big that by the next nite it will be dry again..

I think you will be just as happy as a pig in shit.. once you get the hang of your setup... RUN TO WASTE~~~ ALWAYS... Use CANNA COCO.. ALWAYS.. then of course use the canna coco a/b.. get some Cannazyme and put it in the water ONE WATERING every 5-7 waterings... Get some Rizotonic.. I use it to adjust my PH Up with.. instead of using PH up I use 2 or 3 ounces of Rizo.. its EXPENSIVE SHIT.. but it is wonderful shit too!!!

Remember with the PK.. to use it when the buds are ALREADY fairly plump.. and then USE IT IN ONLY TWO SEPERATE WATERINGS AT THE MOST... I usually use it ONLY ONE WATERING.. and then I don't use the reccomended amount either... I think they say 6 mil per gal... I go like 4mil... and I do WATER THEM ALL GOOD ON THAT PK WATERING TOO!! GOOD DOUCHING THAT DAY!!

Remember.. most all strains will give you MUCH better quality meds if you use less fert.. but use it EVERY TIME.. I don't EVER do "plain" waterings.. unless of course I have over ferted.. but I don't do that.... I used to do big PPM's 3 or 4 times then PLAIN water.. but I found that messed with the plants sometimes.. the plain water... They are just so much happier giving them CONSISTENT LIGHT DOSES EVERY TIME.. like I said earlier... the highest PPM I would EVER do in veg is 800... and the highest in bud is around 750 (and then maybe ONCE at around 4wks).. I should add that I start with a PPM of 005 because I filter my water so my PPM is all ferts... if you are using unfiltered water you PPM without any ferts in it could be 100-300.. mine is 160 unfiltered... I have to add that if there is ANY way you could filter your water... you won't regret it... it is part of my successful secret.. filtering the water.. therefore what I am feeding the plants is EXACTLY what they want with no extras in !!!

Peace and share some pix if you get the chance!!
BB

P.S. If u r 3 wks in right now. AND if the plants have nice round little snow cones on them.. popcorn.. what ever you call em.. nice little buddlets forming.. then stretching.. depending on the strain.. sats stretch for weeks.. should be 3/4 done.. so if its a heavy indy or indy dom most stretching is over maybe another 2-4 inches?.. either way if they are only 13 inches even if its a sat dom I don't think it could do more than another 13 inches.. and if ya have to give em a little kink and bend em down!!

 

[Bluestar]

humble,

I appreciate your input, since you obviously have WAY more experience than I, and I'm sorry I mis-interpreted what you had said previously.

But anyway,

My issue with the last harvest was that it didn't do anything, smelled great, tasted great, that's it. Tried bubble from leaves, etc, and still no go.


I'm not using the canna Bloom Boost, but rather the Bio-Boost (suppose to enhance flavor and aroma). Since the switch


I'll put up some pics tonight, have to get my camera back.


Thanks for all the input guys, you can bet I'm writing it all down.

 

[knna]

My issue with the last harvest was that it didn't do anything, smelled great, tasted great, that's it. Tried bubble from leaves, etc, and still no go.

Potency is mostly a genetic trait. Dont blame yourself for it. How you grow the plant if any may affect potency between reduced ranges, but it the genetic you use is little psicoactive, there is little to do to change it.

Your growing skills may affect yield weight, taste and appearance, but for potency you need a selected genetic more than anything else.

Hey, humble, thanks for your kind words
Im glad i can share what ive learned and its useful for other people. But im still learning about our loved plant and sometimes i feel i dont know nothing about it

Bergerbuddy , good post. I tend too to use less PK each next run. I prefer to use it since main stretching has finished and bud are defining themselfs well, at 4 week, but always at low doses.

I know growing run to waste in coco is easier, but im really happy since i use a recirculating system. Ive grown run to waste before and still sometimes currently, and the weed from the recirculating system not envy anything to it, while manteinance is way easier for me, feeding control strongly improved and cost reduced. Run to waste works nice, but recirculating is another way of growing in coco wich i believe worth a try.

 

[Bluestar]

Hey group,

sorry for being quiet for so long, been busy with school, etc. Just wanted to post an update and ask for some suggestions. As of right now, day 60. Fed one last time this morning Ec 1.3. At lights out, each plant had first flush of 1 1/2 gallons. According to nirvana, flowering is 45-60. I'm looking for amber, but not really seeing much. I know the breeders time frame is a suggestions, not written law, but don't wanna screw up now. I was figuring flushing for 3 days, cut down thurs. Any suggestions?



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