Please Help: Canna Nutes, Hindu Kush Dripper Issues

[Bluestar]

Hey group,

I'm having some issues with my drip system that I hope someone can help with.
I'm a newbie to coco, but have been lurking here for almost a year, and have one outdoor under my belt.

I'm using canna coco nutes right now, with pk 13/14 and boost waiting for the switch to 12/12. My issue is that, from what I understand, after ph'ing the nutes and adding them, that the ph should slowly rise over the next 2-3 days.
I'm having to adjust every day, and it's jumping from a ph of 5.8 to almost 6.8

And my ec goes from .700 to .780..... So I ph the res back to around 5.8, which brings the ec back to .700 and do it again the next day.


My temps are 77 F and my humidity is 65




Am I feeding to aggressively? As far as I can tell, they look good, one's a little lighter in green, but I have roots in the res and they look healthy.


Gone to get a cam to snap pics. Quick question for posting pics, sorry I know it doesn't belong here but, is there any editing i need to do to protect myself security-wise before posting?

 

[Guest 18340]

Let me ask, do you have an air stone in your rez?

 

[gmanwho]

Sounds like u may have not flushed your coco.
Is it recirc? if it is, then thats your answer

Coco needs to be flushed. Doesnt matter if it says steamed or soaked. FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH. Check the run off after a 20 sec drip through, see where it reads.

In my experiences with coco, gotta flush. when u flush drain to waste.

i flush every other feeding. But thats me. find it works better, untill the coco is stable. If im feeding at 2.0ec @ .7 conversion 6.0,1400 ppm. and im getting a run off of of 5.4 2.5ec 1850 ppm, theres an issue.

coco also degrades in time,breaks down and increases your ec, and in my case lowers my ph when u reuse it.

flush with ph'd water when in doubt.

In my experiences, not monitoring your coco runoff can lead to poor development.

check your runoff, & flush often.

and if it is recirc, as evlme2 said, hook up an air pump and stone to your rez.

need that oxygen added to the water, Oxygen is a natures sterilizer. prevents bacteria from linking with each to create harmful anaerobic bacteria.


B-safe

 

[Bluestar]

No, there is no airstone in res.

Yeah, it is a recirculating res, but it's a drip system. No drippers on end, just 1/4" tubing. From what I understood from my reading on here about drippers, you shouldn't use an airstone because the drip system supplies oxygen already, and the airstone will cause ph to rise quick as you're evaporating(?) the ph down. Am I wrong?

I'm using the compressed botanicare bricks, I hydrate in ph'd water, then run another 5 gallons of ph'd water through. I am using a recirculating system. Due to size issues of space, I've got the plants on top of a planter box, with the planter box being the res. It holds about 4 gallons of water, and I feed 4 times a day for 2 minutes. The roots have grown long enough that they're in the res now.

I thought, from what I read from Gais's thread that he used canna coco nutes in a recirc system. Did I mis-read?


I thought I read on a thread here some time ago that for a recirc system, instead of canna coco nutes, somebody said canna aqua were more reliable. Does anybody know? I could've very well read it somewhere else, not really sure.


Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[gmanwho]

Proper aeration helps in many ways.

Proper aeration helps in many ways.

blue... ph will be an issue, always. especially the fact that your recirc is only 4 gallons. With that minimal water volume, thinks change verryyyyyyy quickly. I bet it changes after every watering.




Airstones in the rez will change your ph. i believe its the co2 that actually raises the ph. not 100% sure on the co2 being the cause.

......BUT, airstones in your rez will keep your nutes fresher. they will last longer. less algae build up.Your feed will be oxygenated to it's capacity already. the airstones create evaporating, which will cool your water. Airstones will also circulate the water.

The drippers will oxygenate when feeding. but it the down time that could cause major ill effect. the water sits in the rez, stagnate. perfect breeding ground. warm.

in my experiences, bad things can happen to water without proper aeration. specifically brown algae.

Not sure of any of the threads u speak off.

If those situations worked for them, it may not work for you. just remember that, or even what i speak of. but simply, properly oxygenated water is much healthier then under oxygenated water.

Water chemistry can be a bitch. Some people sometimes luck out and it just works with little knowledge. it can turn negative within a heartbeat.

Now when u said the roots are growing into the rez, your system has taken on dwc properties. Dwc will not work without proper aeration. especailllllllyyyyy cause i believe you are not chilling the water. any water temp above 70....72 WILL turn to a algae mess without water movement. Have u tested your water temp?

hope some of this may have helped.

B-safe

 

[gmanwho]

another thing, change that water every 7-10 days.

reason i say this is just because your meter may read 1000 ppm or 700 or 1300 ppm after some recirculation. it may not be the proper NPK CA MG levels your plant is looking for; that equalls your PPM. there may be a High build up of K, that creates that ppm.

So say u see 1200ppm on your meter, u figure 1200 ppm they have plenty of food. that could be guess could be wrong. of that 1200ppm, what does the plant actually want to consume? It may have use up all the p in that solution. it may this, it may that. and without being able to read the plant, changing the nutes is a good idea. So now u know it has fresh nutes, and it can eat what ever she wants, PH permitting.


B-safe

 

[drymouth]

I grew the Hindu Kush a few times, 3 times in coco and 1 time in grow rocks all on dripers. First I soaked the, Down-to-Earth coco in clearx for a day and a half and got a ppm of 300 - 400 which to my experience is exceptable, then I start them in veg at about 900 -1000ppm (The Hindu Kush can take food well) and a ph of about 5.2 - 6.0 and this is all done with, Pure Blend Pro bloom+Cal-mag at 15ml.pbpb + 5ml. cal-mag a gallon ( this formula is used through veg all the way to harvest!) When I flip to 12/12 there all ready at 1300ppm, I don't even hardly check my Ph... thats how good Pure blend is! It has perfect buffering capacity...

Try it! you wont be sorry check out my grows down below I documented them to the best of my knowledge.

Good luck.

 

[Bluestar]

gman- thanks for all the info, I'm sorry I can't be more accurate about my readings, I've been lurking since og was around. Back then I was only outdoors though. I'm going to be switching over from recirc to run to waste on the next grow. The plants look healthy, there almost at the 2 week mark of 12/12. I got three bottles of canna bioboost for free, so I'm trying that out. I thought that since it's all natural, it would benefit the plants. There currently being fed at 1.2 ec, 15ml/gal of bioboost, and ph'd to 5.80. The roots just keep growing, and now are forming rootballs in the res. I'll check every morning, top off with 24hr standing water, and adjust nutrients as needed. If I skip a day, the ph is up to 6.7 on the next day. I have the timer set to run the drip lines until about 50% runoff is achived.













Sorry about lighting, don't want to disturb them when it's lights out. The roots look brown, but that's just at the water line, in the water and above are pure white. I think the browning is from the bioboost. Oh, and the temps for the water are rock-steady at 70 degrees F.

 

[gmanwho]

blue, see all that brown crap in the rez, thats brown algae. it suffocates your roots and feeds on them. if all of your roots where submerged, you would lose your plants.

An airstone would help clean that up.

Notice how nice and bright white the roots are at the top,above the rez water, thats the way they should be.

6.7 is not far out of the zone, infact a slight ph swing is good, you end up taking up nutes at different ph's. it when the ph get above 7.0 or lower then like 5.2 i would worry. but u ph every so often, so you hit that mark, then let it rise. btw, 6.0-6.4 is usually best for mid to late bloom. 5.5-5.8 veg. early bloom. 6.0 . atleast that what seems to work best for me

b-safe

 

[Bluestar]

alright, off to the petstore this morning. thanks for all the info gman, i really appreciate it.

 

[knna]

There is nothing wrong with recirculating in coco.

You just need to aireate you res and use a lower ph range. A starting 5.8 is high for a recirculation system with often watering, as it may lead to a calcium accumulation.

One way of achiving a slower ph raise is by adjusting ph again about 12h after adding new feeding. The huge initial raise is due to fast N uptake (on NO3- form). Once its almost uptaked (it depends of your res size and watering schedule, but often its 12-24h), if you adjust res ph again, then the raise is way slower. For example you can adjust to 5,7 when adding nutes, and the next day adjust again to 5.5-5.6 and then you wont need to adjust again probably until refilling your res.

Another way of avoiding the fast ph raise is by using more N on the NH4+ form (but i wouldnt advice it when using coco).

If your ppms raise, reduce a bit EC of feeding, it means plants are uptaking more water than nutes.

Peace,
knna

 

[~fvk~]

blue... ph will be an issue, always. especially the fact that your recirc is only 4 gallons. With that minimal water volume, thinks change verryyyyyyy quickly. I bet it changes after every watering.




Airstones in the rez will change your ph. i believe its the co2 that actually raises the ph. not 100% sure on the co2 being the cause.

......BUT, airstones in your rez will keep your nutes fresher. they will last longer. less algae build up.Your feed will be oxygenated to it's capacity already. the airstones create evaporating, which will cool your water. Airstones will also circulate the water.

The drippers will oxygenate when feeding. but it the down time that could cause major ill effect. the water sits in the rez, stagnate. perfect breeding ground. warm.

in my experiences, bad things can happen to water without proper aeration. specifically brown algae.

Not sure of any of the threads u speak off.

If those situations worked for them, it may not work for you. just remember that, or even what i speak of. but simply, properly oxygenated water is much healthier then under oxygenated water.

Water chemistry can be a bitch. Some people sometimes luck out and it just works with little knowledge. it can turn negative within a heartbeat.

Now when u said the roots are growing into the rez, your system has taken on dwc properties. Dwc will not work without proper aeration. especailllllllyyyyy cause i believe you are not chilling the water. any water temp above 70....72 WILL turn to a algae mess without water movement. Have u tested your water temp?

hope some of this may have helped.

B-safe

That was a good post for growers who recirculate but would you advise using an airstone is run to waste as well? I don't really think there would be a need for it if the res gets changed regularly but let me know what you think. The only thing is it'd be a pain to have to maintain proper PH levels with an airstone... Plus depending on what kind of PH adjuster you're using, it can really ramp up the PPM if you adjust more than once in the same feed water... I found that with citric acid, it actually lowers the PPM's instead of raising them, unlike say GH dry PH down. I like using them in a combination. GH first for stability and then citric acid to maintain it...

 

[Bluestar]

ok, maybe i'm just stuck on stupid, but I need 2x quality air pumps. One for the res, and another for a bubble cloner. I picked up an 8" ceramic airstone for the res, and a pair of 8" bubble wands. I've tried to use a rena 50 and a rena 100 on both and neither pump will power the airstones/wands. Can somebody help?

 

[gmanwho]

humm the airstones not working with the pump. strange. start at the pump, does it have output pressure? yes?, then attach the line. do u got pressure at the line. yes? check the wands or stones for clogs.

Strange. either of those pumps at 50 or 100 lpm should be fine.

thou i never used a ceramic stone, not sure of the pressure needed to run one.

Thou u shouldn't have an issue with the wands, i always get the cheapys from wal-mart.

let us know what u find out.

Also another interesting thing about aerating water, just an FYI, oxygen does not, or barely enters the water below the surface. the actual aeration happens when the bubble breaks at the surface.

B-safe

 

[Bluestar]

Hey gman,

I messed around for a few hours with all the pumps and airstones/wands, but nothing worked. I had air coming from both pumps with 8" of airline attached, but when hooked up to anything, no air. So I broke down and bought two new pumps, Whisper brand, and its working a treat. I've got to install the second one for my bubble cloner, and to buy a manifold to split airflow between two 8" wands.

On another note, I setup the res with the airstone 3x days ago, and noticed no change except that there now looks like white things floating in the water. I did a new res, fresh and clean, with new water and nutes. Roots still look white, just not sure what it is.

My current nutes are:

Canna A/B
Canna BioBoost
Canna PK 13/14
Earth Juice Natural PH Up/Down

Could the white stuff floating be a result of the bioboost? I'm going to post some pics of the res for clarification, along with the rest of my little space for any recommendations or advisements. Thanks for all your guidance so far, I really do appreciate it.

 

[Bluestar]

As promised, more pics....


I circled what I keep refering to as "white stuff" in the res:





Here's a pic to give you an idea of my "space issues" :






I think I did pretty good considering the circumstances, but, as always, suggestions, etc are more than welcome.



They're about 2 weeks into flowering, not much to see :







Right now they're at 1.3 EC 5.9 PH every morning, up to around 6.6 - 6.8 in morning. Bioboost being used at 15ml/gal. (Got 2x free 250ml bottles for screwup in my order and they expire soon anyway.)

 

[Bluestar]

just checked in again before lights out. Ec was still at 1.3 Ph was up to 6.9

Readjusted PH to 5.9, moved EC to 1.28

will top up tomorrow with nutes to get back to 1.3 Ec and PH 5.8

 

[gmanwho]

hey blue, on that rising ppm. sometimes bacteria colonization can raise your ph as well. my first dwc run had minimal stones, my ph was raising +1 within hours, +2 over 12 hrs cycle. it was due to bacteria colonization, unfortunately the wrong bacteria.

the white stuff floating could be eggs. have u recently had any infestation of insects. or, i used to get white hard calcium deposits that would attach to the lava. could be some type of build up, bacteria maybe. keep an eye out.


what are your rez temps? rez temps arent too important when using to top feed. UNTILL u start growing the plant in the solution, then thats a total different ball game.

so what are your rez temps?

b-safe

 

[Bluestar]

I have a 10" airstone in the bottom, and it's bubbling full blast. Res temps are solid at 70 degrees F (canopy kinda shades res). Never had any insect issues. Now that you mention it, it probably is calcium because I had to SCRUB the walls of res to get it off.

I'm really paranoid about my plants not finishing out because of these issues. I'm going to be going run to waste next time around, it just seems easier.

My last grow was great ( two plants hand watered) until the end, they never seemed to really finish and fill out. I was only using canna A+B, no bloom boosters. I think I started flushing too early, not sure.

Do you think it would be devastating to the plants to remove from this screw-up dwc and repot in 2 gallon containers, switching to run-to-waste? They're in 6" square pots, and I'm not really to concerned about breaking out bottoms so as not to ruin the roots during transplant. I'm somewhere between 2 and 3 weeks flowering, and not really seeing much difference in the plants. How can I make the best of my situation?

 

[clowntown]

Coco needs to be flushed. Doesnt matter if it says steamed or soaked. FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH. Check the run off after a 20 sec drip through, see where it reads.

In my experiences with coco, gotta flush.

I've never done any "flushing" or rinsing or any other sort of pre-treatment with my bagged Canna or Atami/B'Cuzz coco, and I've never had any kind of problems because of it.

I wish people would stop calling every coco-based product just "coco" , and always assume it's always the same in these types of threads where people are likely using way different types and grades of coco medium. I've read of people having issues with bricked coir & chips, but I don't remember reading about anyone having issues due to a lack of pretreatment from the loose bagged coir.

and if it is recirc, as evlme2 said, hook up an air pump and stone to your rez.

I believe H&G still recommends against the use of airstones on their Cocos A+B nutes (which is meant for DTW); I don't know if that has any relation to the Canna Coco A+B, but just thought I'd mention this because you can't always rely on traditional methods to relatively new products. Not saying that this is or isn't the case with "coco specific" nutrients, but just seems that a lot of people are bent and set in their old ways... for instance, adding tons of perlite, and feeding & watering coco like soil to mention a couple of examples.

blue, see all that brown crap in the rez, thats brown algae.

Brown algae?? Or pythium?