??Understanding a Breeder's Description??

[dank.frank]

Alot of times when I read about different grows, where things don't match the breeder's description. EX..longer/shorter flower times, too tall/short, yield...

Is it correct to assume that the flowering time listed by breeders is the correct flowering time of a "keeper" pheno, and you are kind of looking for a plant that finishes in the said time?

 

[rule35sub1]

The breeders description flower times are usually right in the ballpark. If you grow a different way than the breeder does, you will see variation.

 

[dank.frank]

So...if a breeder says say 45-50 days on a strain, and you have one that finished flowering at say day 65....then you should look for a different pheno....no?

 

[Saibai]

Well, I think a lot of breeders descriptions should be taken with a grain of salt, especially the flowering times. There may be phenos that go that fast, but more often than not, I've seen most people go over the time stated.
Many strains will have some variation (not all) in looks/height etc.

 

[eLiguL]

Well, I think a lot of breeders descriptions should be taken with a grain of salt, especially the flowering times. There may be phenos that go that fast, but more often than not, I've seen most people go over the time stated.
Many strains will have some variation (not all) in looks/height etc.

I concur, a big sea salt grain.....

a lot of breeders state 8 weeks of flowering time

8 weeks = 56 days

Its a rare occurance to see a strain finish that early in my experience. The norm is usually 60-70 days to allow the plant to fully flower and show her potential.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

So...if a breeder says say 45-50 days on a strain, and you have one that finished flowering at say day 65....then you should look for a different pheno....no?

No.


Anyone who bases their choice of a keeper on wether or not the flowering time is typical for the strain has questionable priorities imho.

If some plant goes a week longer, but is outstanding in some way and par or above in every other way, it is still a keeper in m book.

I give the range in which the majority (90%) of plants of that varietal will finish. But, finished is a relative term... 5% amber trichomes? 15%? 50%? 75%? Well that is absolutely a matter of personal preference... Finished to me has to do as much with calyx swell and ripeness as much as how many trichomes have died...

 

[dank.frank]

so then...if not the breeders description...what is supposed to help you to "hunt" for the proper pheno when trying to get the said purchased strain whatever it may be?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

so then...if not the breeders description...what is supposed to help you to "hunt" for the proper pheno when trying to get the said purchased strain whatever it may be?

Proper is one thing... Keeper is something else entirely... I've thrown out hundreds of 'proper' pheno's... I've found a couple dozen keepers...

Why not choose the plant with the flavor aroma high and production 'combo' you most prefer... instead of trying to match distinct individuals to a vague discription?

 

[Saibai]

ICmag grow diaries, smoke reports and knowing which strains have been used to make the cross.

And, of course the best thing to help you hunt for the "proper" pheno is your own taste, needs and conditions of growing.

 

[Saibai]

To expand on the above, if you are a commercial grower you want big buds that will get you the most weight, with good bag appeal and fast finishing. The other factors will be a litle further down the list.

If you're growing for your own headstash/medical and maybe to give to some friends, obviously you're going to have different priorities. You might want to make hash, you might want a tasty strain, or some pure sativa, or heavy indica for pain relief, maybe you want a low-odour strain, or you're worried about mold outside, etc etc.

The bottom line is to make an educated guess (educated meaning having researched as much info on the strain as possible) when buying a strain, grow it and see how it does in your climate/setup and then repeat for the next harvest, hopefully with a better idea of what you want/what will work best for your situation.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

A breeder's description should be specific enough to differentiate one seed line from the next, but vague enough that the majority of the plants from a line fall within it's parameters. Every plant is a distinct individual... Like people... It is often not difficult to pin down a person's geographic origin by their appearance, but every 'eskimo in the village' is distinct as an individual as well and looks different even from other closely related individuals...

 

[dank.frank]

HMMM...I uderstand the concept of just finding and keeping a plant that suits your needs/preferences the best....but at the same time...if a breeder is selling a product, there must be enough progeny that represent what the breeder him/her self produced, right???

So the "proper" pheno i.e. the one that fits the breeders description...may not always be "the keeper" pheno??? hmmm, interesting

Can you work a particular pheno enough to produce identical or atleast VERY consistent offspring from seed? (say 7/10)

 

[sirgrassalot]

A breeder's description should be specific enough to differentiate one seed line from the next, but vague enough that the majority of the plants from a line fall within it's parameters. Every plant is a distinct individual... Like people... It is often not difficult to pin down a person's geographic origin by their appearance, but every 'eskimo in the village' is distinct as an individual as well and looks different even from other closely related individuals...

Usage Note: The preferred term for the native peoples of the Canadian Arctic and Greenland is now Inuit, and the use of Eskimo in referring to these peoples is often considered offensive, especially in Canada. Inuit, the plural of the Inuit word inuk, "human being," is less exact in referring to the peoples of northern Alaska, who speak dialects of the closely related Inupiaq language, and it is inappropriate when used in reference to speakers of Yupik, the Eskimoan language branch of western Alaska and the Siberian Arctic. See Usage Note at Eskimo.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Inuit

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Usage Note: The preferred term for the native peoples of the Canadian Arctic and Greenland is now Inuit, and the use of Eskimo in referring to these peoples is often considered offensive, especially in Canada. Inuit, the plural of the Inuit word inuk, "human being," is less exact in referring to the peoples of northern Alaska, who speak dialects of the closely related Inupiaq language, and it is inappropriate when used in reference to speakers of Yupik, the Eskimoan language branch of western Alaska and the Siberian Arctic. See Usage Note at Eskimo.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Inuit

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

ORIGIN: via French Esquimaux, possibly from Spanish esquimao, esquimal, from Montagnais ayas̆kimew ‘netter of snowshoes,’ probably applied first to the Micmac and later to the Eskimo (see husky 2 ).

USAGE: 1 In recent years, Eskimo has come to be regarded as offensive because of one of its possible etymologies (Abnaki askimo ‘eater of raw meat’), but this descriptive name is accurate since Eskimos traditionally derived their vitamins from eating raw meat. This dictionary gives another possible etymology above, but the etymological problem is still unresolved. 2 The peoples inhabiting the regions from northwestern Canada to western Greenland call themselves Inuit (see usage at Inuit ). Since there are no Inuit living in the U.S., Eskimo is the only term that can be properly applied to all of the peoples as a whole, and it is still widely used in anthropological and archaeological contexts. The broader term Native American is sometimes used to refer to Eskimo and Aleut peoples. See usage at Native American .

 

[sirgrassalot]

I'm not here to censor you, it's not my forum. Post whatever you like.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I was only pointing out that I did not intend to be offensive, and was properly using the word not making slurs. Living in an area where my inuit contact has been limited to almost none, I was aware of no other usage than the proper one. Apologies to any etmylogically offended Inuit, Yupik, or any other member of the Eskimo-Alueut family.

 

[dank.frank]

HMMM...I uderstand the concept of just finding and keeping a plant that suits your needs/preferences the best....but at the same time...if a breeder is selling a product, there must be enough progeny that represent what the breeder him/her self produced, right???

So the "proper" pheno i.e. the one that fits the breeders description...may not always be "the keeper" pheno??? hmmm, interesting

Can you work a particular pheno enough to produce identical or atleast VERY consistent offspring from seed? (say 7/10)

I guess the reason I am asking is that I think the only way I am going to find EXACTLY what I want is to take the time to do a bit of breeding for myself. And the chances are good that anything I do, there is something already out there like that or better....but it's all good. Just kind of research for now anyway.

So, if a breeders description is pretty all inclusive of what you can find...how many seeds should have to be bought of a given strain....to find something special and actually worth working with .... or does that vary?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I guess the reason I am asking is that I think the only way I am going to find EXACTLY what I want is to take the time to do a bit of breeding for myself. And the chances are good that anything I do, there is something already out there like that or better....but it's all good. Just kind of research for now anyway.

So, if a breeders description is pretty all inclusive of what you can find...how many seeds should have to be bought of a given strain....to find something special and actually worth working with .... or does that vary?

That varies... Every seed is a genetic lottery, ultimately... but good parent stock betters the odds...

 

[sirgrassalot]

I was only pointing out that I did not intend to be offensive, and was properly using the word not making slurs. Living in an area where my inuit contact has been limited to almost none, I was aware of no other usage than the proper one. Apologies to any etmylogically offended Inuit, Yupik, or any other member of the Eskimo-Alueut family.

Most people don't know until it's discussed. Now we all know, I'm sure they won't be offended but would be happy to hear your remarks.

As for the breeder descriptions they're vague at times. The blurbs are supposed to entice us to buy & with all the choices I think they need to be a little creative in how they're are advertised. Most give a couple weeks leeway in the finishing times 7-9 weeks depending on how you like your bud or your lighting may speed up finishing compared to say 250 finished in 9 weeks a 1000 would be done in 7 weeks. Than I usually see a potency rating which is usually higher than maybe I could achieve & a simplistic yield rating.

I'm growing a plant that fit the description accurately. I've harvested at 7 weeks & at 9. The flavour, smell & taste comes out in a cure, a sweet smoke with a lemon & an industrial scent. The bloom smell was right on too, sour cabbage. Medium yielder with buds that don't stop growing.

 

[dank.frank]

I know that it takes years of work to create seeds that give stable and consistent results...but I am still alive, so I have the time...

If I already knew what I wanted to do....if I was really serious about trying to find a great pheno female or male, how many seeds should I consider...just a rough average?

Can some one explain IBL to me...? Is that not kind of the same as saying "true breeding" meaning that, from seed, you are going to yeild offspring that have all the exact same identifiable traits..., right or wrong?