Muslim Inebriation

[Papa_Moña]

A recent thread about Dubai, which ended up turning into a discussion on different Muslim sects' cultural taboos, has inspired me to start this thread.

I want to accurately and concretely(with laws and/or scientifically obtained statistics) know what is socially and legally acceptable in the different geographic regions, in the different countries and, of more importance than any other factor, in the different sects.

Why I want to know this? I'll leave that for after I see the data. It's not so much about Muslim culture, more about human nature in general, using the Muslim world's legally enforced religious prohibitions as a starting point.

I'll be researching for a while along with any of you interested in pursuing this discussion.

Please be academic in your responses. This is NOT a racial discussion. The ONLY reason I am using the Muslim countries is because it is the only culture that runs the gamut from complete lack of inebriants to most of the economy relying on drug production. This gives me a somewhat level playing field on all other social aspects, putting the differing prohibitions on altered mental states into the limelight.

If someone where to find this thread by chance, I'd hate for a few racist or culturally biased remarks to be what was most notable, or for my interest in human nature and my choice of study subjects to cause a new wave of riots. I respect Muslim culture as much as I respect any other culture. I have had several close Muslim friends in the past and can vouch for the almost complete Western misunderstanding of their culture.

Any sophomoric comments will be first given a chance to recant or delete by way of Private Message. Lack of further action will get the post forwarded to a Mod.

 

[subrob]

it will be interesting to see where this thread goes. dont have scientific and/or legal facts, the only thing i can contribute is a little story of what happened to me while i was in iraq:
we were running a checkpoint on the border and searching cars leaving kuwait. one car in particular had a number of automatic weapons, stolen golden artifacts, and a young girl(age 5 or 6) none of the above seemed to belong to the two gentlemen driving the mercedes, which didnt seem to belong to them either. however they did not even bat an eye till we asked to see what was in the trunk. they got real nervous and we found 5 or 6 cannabis plants, about midway through flowering. my impression of the situation was they were deathly afraid of being caught with cannabis, but not looted guns,cars, artifacts, or a little girl. very strange priorities at the time. I know there are places in the muslim world where narcotics are a death sentence. guess it can be worse then the states or countries influenced by our government to have horrible cannabis laws.

 

[Guest]

In my experience, many British Muslims drink, but they do it on the sly.

 

[Tokermon]

i always see muslims downing pints of beer at the pub.

 

[Northern_Greens]

I have a muslim friend, he grew up there and came to school here, and he smokes just as much as I do!

N_G

 

[flubnutz]

knew a dude from turkey who was a secular muslim, by look and dress very european, asked about booze he said yeah, its a sin, but he didnt seem overly concerned. he had no probs with a drink (or a toke). knew an ismaili muslim woman from africa (senegal?), also western in dress, she'd have a drink. never saw either of them overindulge.

 

[Hazelnuts]

I know smoking can get you a lot of jail time in Muslim countries and in some East Asian countries such as Singapore. One guy allegedly had 0.003g or something like that of hash under his shoe. They gave him 4 years in Singapore

 

[RudolfTheRed]

I live in Appalachia and see southern baptists at the liquor store all the time. They just pretend they don't see each other there even though there really there. I imagine the same shit happens in Muslim countries except maybe different situations.

 

[VanillaGueriila]

The first bong and hookah I had ever seen were at a muslims house.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Churches, Mosques all schools for sinners.

 

[Stoner4Life]

JFK airport in '99, all restaurants were closed (3a.m.)
and I watched as hunger drove a muslim man into the
buying & eating of a ham sandwich at the only open cafe.

I've seen plenty of them smoking and drinking though.

 

[Papa_Moña]

oh, i've seen PLENTY "orthodox" jewish kids eat decidedly non-kosher foods(namely pork rinds) just out of rebellion


BTW, i think not on person read the entire post. I specified to speak about legal and cultural norms, in countries of origin, not to cite anecdotal evidence. K+ nonetheless to whomever i can get today. the others i'll get after the limit resets!

 

[Papa_Moña]

I live in Appalachia and see southern baptists at the liquor store all the time. They just pretend they don't see each other there even though there really there. I imagine the same shit happens in Muslim countries except maybe different situations.

well... no, because they stone you. get it? that's why I'm interested in Muslims in their native countries. Trust me, indoctrination is very successful...

Our drug current drug culture stems from an exposure to the early traces of it, by way of the media(look up the correlation of LSD usage and the media coverage of it... the media frenzy preceded the shit hitting the fan. just like weed, just like every drug.

The people in these areas have been exposed to what the status quo has established as the norm. Satelite dish TV is relatively a new comer, and it's usage has always been relegated to the upper classes, thus the exposure to western mentality is limited, and even if the ruling class may partake and turn a blind eye to peers who partake, they do not allow it amongst the populace.

 

[Guest 26753]

I found a couple of interesting things on cannabis and muslims.


Generally in orthodox Islam, the use of cannabis is deemed to be khamr, and therefore haraam (forbidden). As with most orthodoxies, early practices differ in this.[citation needed] Some say that, as hashish was introduced in post-Koranic times, the prohibition of khamr (literally, "fermented grape" but generally understood to mean anything that clouds consciousness) did not apply to it.[citation needed] Others point to various hadith, which equate all intoxicants with khamr, and declare them all haraam, "if much intoxicates, then even a little is haraam".[citation needed]

Although cannabis use in Islamic society has been consistently present, often but not exclusively in the lower classes,[citation needed] its use explicitly for spiritual purposes is most noted among the Sufi. An account of the origin of this:

According to one Arab legend, Haydar, the Persian founder of the religious order of Sufi, came across the cannabis plant while wandering in the Persian mountains. Usually a reserved and silent man, when he returned to his monastery after eating some cannabis leaves, his disciples were amazed at how talkative and animated (full of spirit) he seemed. After cajoling Haydar into telling them what he had done to make him feel so happy, his disciples went out into the mountains and tried the cannabis for themselves. So it was, according to the legend, the Sufis came to know the pleasures of hashish. (Taken from the Introduction to A Comprehensive Guide to Cannabis Literature by Ernest Abel.)

In addition, the warrior sect of the Hashashin were said to have eaten hashish before their assassinations and were given the name "Hashasin" accordingly. This notion, traditional in the West, can be inferred from Marco Polo's account of his travels, though it has been widely disputed.[11]

***********************************************************

"There is always a need for intoxication: China has o***m, Islam has hashish, the West has woman."
--André Malraux, from Man's Fate

Or, it could read, "the West has liquor."

Last November 23, six members of Your Black Muslim Bakery allegedly smashed liquor bottles at two stores in Oakland, California while chastising Islamic store owners for selling liquor to fellow Muslims. Groups such as the Islamic Society of the East Bay, Muslims for Healthy Communities and Masjidul Waritheen mosque participated in a rally and march just after the incident, when members stopped at three liquor stores in Oakland to more peacefully express their concerns.

It has been suggested that one of the reasons Muhammad instructed his followers to forgo liquor was to help distinguish them from the wine-loving Christians. The intoxicant use of cannabis may have permeated Islamic culture in part because alcohol was forbidden to adherents of Islam. Marijuana, which thrives in hot, arid climates, has a long history of use in the Muslim and Hindu worlds and is relatively new to the West.

CNN correspondent Peter Bergen wrote in his book Holy War, Inc., "The weed grows in profusion in Islamabad, even outside the headquarters of Pakistan's drug police." Bergen compares al-Qaeda to the infamous Assassins, founded as an Ismailian sect in what was then Persia in 1090. Supposedly under the influence of hashish, the Assassins brought death and destruction on Christian Crusaders for upwards of two hundred years. Bergen noted that Osama bin Laden signed his August 23, 1996 manifesto, "From the Peaks Hindu Kush," the region where cannabis originated.

But Ernest Abel, in his book Marijuana: The First 12,000 Years, contends that Marco Polo never identified hashish as the drug used to trick the Assassins into their murderous ways, and that the Arab world doesn't equate hashish with violence. That didn't stop our first drug "czar" Harry Anslinger from using the legend to help bring about the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937, which effectively made marijuana illegal in the US. Headlines like "Hashish Goads Users to Blood Lust" ran in Hearst newspapers and these stories were accepted as Congressional testimony at the time.

Recorded use of cannabis goes back to 1200 - 800 in the Hindu sacred text Atharva veda and the Zoroastrian Zend-Avesta, a Persian religious text circa 600 BCE, refers to bhang as Zoroaster's "good narcotic." Marijuana's use as an intoxicant was clearly established in the Arab and Mediterranean worlds by the tenth century A.D., generating many references in Arabian literature, such as one of the stories in The Thousand and One Nights, known as the Arabian Nights (1000-1400AD).

According to legend, Haydar, the Persian monk who founded the Sufi order, discovered a cannabis plant while taking a walk in 1155 A.D. Eating some of the leaves, he found it lifted his depression and he praised its euphoric properties to his disciples, making them promise not to reveal the secret plant to anyone but Sufis (the poorer classes, who wore wool or "Suf" instead of cotton). The Sufis' religion included direct communion with God, using cannabis as a sacrament, and like today's pot-smoking hippies, they "dropped out" of the prevailing economic model and lived communally.

Perhaps the first European experiments in cross-cultural understanding took place in mid 19th-century France, a few decades after Napoleon's troops discovered hashish while invading Egypt. "Le Club des Hashishins," which met from about 1844-49, was founded by Theophile Gautier, and included painter Eugene Delacroix, writers Alexander Dumas, Victor Hugo, Honore de Balzac, Charles Baudelaire and many others. This lofty group would gather in Arabian dress and partake of hashish syrup blended into strong Arabic coffee. The fanciful descriptions of their experiences they left behind has intrigued and inspired several generations of explorers.

In 1894, the British Government published The Indian Hemp Drug Commission Report. Comprising some seven volumes and 3,281 pages, is by far the most complete and systematic study of marijuana undertaken to date. J.M. Campbell, a customs officer, contributed a treatise "On the Religion of Hemp," quoted here in part:

"To forbid or even seriously to restrict the use of so gracious an herb as hemp would cause widespread suffering and annoyance and to large bands of worshipped ascetics, deep-seated anger. It would rob the people of a solace in discomfort, of a cure in sickness, of a guardian whose gracious protection saves them from the attacks of evil influences, and whose mighty power makes the devotee of the Victorious, overcoming the demons of hunger and thirst, of panic, fear, of the glamour of Maya or matter, and of madness, able in rest to brood on the Eternal, till the Eternal, possessing him body and soul, frees him from the haunting of self and receives him into the Ocean of Being. These beliefs the Musalman devotee shares to the full. Like his Hindu brother, the Musalman fakir reveres bhang as the lengthener of life, the freer from the bonds of self. Bhang brings union with the Divine spirit."

Alfred R. Lindesmith, the first modern academic in the US to challenge the drug laws, wrote that Hindu society roughly reverses the status of marijuana in relation to alcohol seen in the West, and "it would be rash indeed to believe that it would be to India's advantage to outlaw marihuana and encourage the use of alcohol." A 1951 study by George Morris Carstairs found that the warrior class of India, the Rajputs, used alcohol to stay warlike but the more respected Brahmins eschewed it and preferred the gentle herb instead as a means to enlightenment.

A fascinating new book, Orgies of the Hemp Eaters (Autonomedia, 2004) further distinguishes between marijuana smokers and those who consume the plant instead, such as those who drink bhang to worship Shiva. Novelist, poet and composer Paul Bowles, who made a great study of "kif" during his time spent in Morocco, is quoted in the book saying, "One of the first things you must accept when you join the grown-ups' club [of the 20th century] is that fact that the Judaeo-Christains approve of only one out of all the substances capable of effecting a quick psychic change in the human organism -- and that one is alcohol. . . And so the last strongholds fashioned around the use of substances other than alcohol are being flushed out, to make everything clean and in readiness for the great alcoholic future."

If there was ever a time to address these issues and heal the schism between the sons of Abraham, it is now.

 

[flubnutz]

you can always ask yourself

http://www.sistani.org/local.php?modules=main

if youve been following things in iraq you'll know who he is. havent read it in a while, only when i first learned about it. he answers any questions; i think i remember some guy asked if oral sex was ok and they answered straight up (i think it was ok).

 

[sirgrassalot]

you can always ask yourself

http://www.sistani.org/local.php?modules=main

if youve been following things in iraq you'll know who he is. havent read it in a while, only when i first learned about it. he answers any questions; i think i remember some guy asked if oral sex was ok and they answered straight up (i think it was ok).

Don't get caught yanking your willy...


"Islamic Laws : Najis things » Alcoholic liquor
< Najis things » Kafir | Index | Najis things » Beer (Fuqa') >

112. All Alcoholic liquors and beverages which intoxicate a person, are najis and on the basis of recommended precaution, everything which is originally liquid and intoxicates a person, is najis. Hence narcotics, like, opium and hemp, which are not liquid originally, are Pak, even when a liquid is added to them.

113. All kinds of industrial alcohol used for painting doors, windows, tables, chairs etc. are Pak.

114. If grapes or grape juice ferments by itself, or on being cooked, they are Pak, but it is haraam to eat or drink them.

115. If dates, currants and raisins, and their juice ferment, they are Pak and it is halal to eat them.



Question: Is it permissible to masturbate?
Answer: It is not permissible under any circumstances."

 

[Guest 26753]

^cool link. Thanks for posting it. Good to see they have an English language component.

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

There are three aspects to this question. First, what the Quran says about inebriation, second, how the tafsir (coranic interpretation, how to applicate quranic messages, etc) in different Islamic societies interprets it. Third, how the Islamic societies with a long standing cultural use of drugs deal with it.

Some of you seem to want to make a point of that you've seen Muslims do this and that in terms of drugs. So what? Ever seen a Christian do 'un-christian' things? I thought so.

The major Islamic communities such as Sunnism and Shiitism interpretes that all types of drugs are forbidden in Islam.
The base for this is primarily the Quran, more precisely the following surat:

[5:90] O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed.

[5:91] The devil wants to provoke animosity and hatred among you through intoxicants and gambling, and to distract you from remembering GOD, and from observing the Contact Prayers (Salat). Will you then refrain?

[4:43] O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying. Nor after sexual orgasm without bathing, unless you are on the road, traveling; if you are ill or traveling, or you had urinary or fecal-related excretion (such as gas), or contacted the women (sexually), and you cannot find water, you shall observe Tayammum (dry ablution) by touching clean dry soil, then wiping your faces and hands therewith. GOD is Pardoner, Forgiver.

The basic interpretation of this is that you should not stand in front of God/pray while intoxicated or unpure in any way. All types of intoxicating and psychoactive substances are therefore not for muslims.

Now, the word used in the Quran to define "intoxicant" is most often "Khamr". The general consensus is that "Khamr" refers to anything that disturbs khamara (the mind). But it is a word with multiple meaning, said by some to be equivalent with alcoholic drinks, or intoxicating drinks. The vagueness in meaning has led some to interpret this as if only alcoholic drinks are forbidden. Therefore, you can smoke as much dope as you want and still be cool with Islam (same thing with coke or crack). Only, this is a kind of generous interpretation to your own benefit which disregards the basic intention with the ban; that you should be 'pure', clean and unaffected by any substance whatsoever when phasing in with the man upstairs.

I've had this discussion with pot-smoking wannabe Muslims before, and I get comments such as "When I'm high I'm more in tune with God" and different varieties of it.
Sure, why not? You can invent whatever belief-system for yourself that you want. Personally, I'm an atheist and it makes no difference to me if you follow Islam by the letter or invent your own interpretation of it. But in mainstream Islam, all types of drugs are concidered taboo, whether you like it or not.

When Islam interacted with the Oriental world that it conquered, it sometimes mixed with local religious practices and drug use. From that, a mystic branch of Islam was born called Sufism. You can get a basic run-down on Sufism here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism
In short, at prayer or Muraquaba (meditation), Sufis work themselves into an emotional trance where they 'tune' with God, drugs and dancing is okay in order to get you there. A lot of pot-smoking so called Muslims rally to Sufism, since it justifies their toking. But, Sufism is a particular branch of Islam - just as Wahabism is - which not all Muslims recognize themselves in or accept, so whether you want to call it Islam or an off-shot sect of Islam is up to each and everyone.

 

[Guest 26753]

I saw this on another site, just to add to the great post above.

Is Marijuana Haram?
QUESTION:

When I was young I was told that alcohol was haram, the reason being that it intoxicates a person. Making him unaware of the external world, making him loose control of himself and imparing his judgement etc.

I have friends who, like many youngsters are into drugs. Recently after having found one of my most dear friends to be involved in it, really saddened me. Though he was not into some hardcore drugs, he was into marijuana or 'weed' as it’s commonly known. I tried to stop him but he inturn told me things like...the scientific proof of it not being an addictive substance and also of it not being haram. He said it is nowhere written that its haram. But my explanation was that it was something that makes a person unaware of what is going on and the persons brain is slowed down etc...but since I myself dint know much about the matter I could do nothing.

Brother I want to know if marijuana or anyother drugs are haram in Islam, so that I could provide my friend with a suitable answer.

ANSWER:

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Drugs such as marijuana, cocaine, opium, etc are all unlawful (haram) due to the various harms connected with them.

Marijuana is a psychoactive drug made from the leaves of the cannabis plant. It is usually smoked but can also be eaten. It is the most commonly used and considered to be a soft drug.

Marijuana intoxicates a person the same way alcohol does. It weakens one’s senses and the capability to reflect. Scientific research has proven that, marijuana has much harm, and could lead one in becoming an addict to other hard drugs.

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Every intoxicant is prohibited.” Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 4088)

And he (Allah bless him & give him peace) also said:

“That which intoxicates in large quantities is prohibited in small quantities.” (Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, and others, with a sound chain of narrators)

So here there is no need to doubt the illicit nature of such modern narcotics like cocaine, heroine, etc. or such soft drugs that are available in the club scenes, places, unfortunately, visited frequently by Muslim youth in the West.

Therefore, explain to you friend that, all drugs are Haram due to the fact that they intoxicate a person in one way or another. One looses the ability to think and reflect in a proper manner, and that is intoxication. If you have a local scholar, seek his advice and take your friend to him.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

Is Marijuana Haram?
QUESTION:

When I was young I was told that alcohol was haram, the reason being that it intoxicates a person. Making him unaware of the external world, making him loose control of himself and imparing his judgement etc.

I have friends who, like many youngsters are into drugs. Recently after having found one of my most dear friends to be involved in it, really saddened me. Though he was not into some hardcore drugs, he was into marijuana or 'weed' as it’s commonly known. I tried to stop him but he inturn told me things like...the scientific proof of it not being an addictive substance and also of it not being haram. He said it is nowhere written that its haram. But my explanation was that it was something that makes a person unaware of what is going on and the persons brain is slowed down etc...but since I myself dint know much about the matter I could do nothing.

Brother I want to know if marijuana or anyother drugs are haram in Islam, so that I could provide my friend with a suitable answer.

ANSWER:

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Drugs such as marijuana, cocaine, opium, etc are all unlawful (haram) due to the various harms connected with them.

Marijuana is a psychoactive drug made from the leaves of the cannabis plant. It is usually smoked but can also be eaten. It is the most commonly used and considered to be a soft drug.

Marijuana intoxicates a person the same way alcohol does. It weakens one’s senses and the capability to reflect. Scientific research has proven that, marijuana has much harm, and could lead one in becoming an addict to other hard drugs.

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Every intoxicant is prohibited.” Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 4088)

And he (Allah bless him & give him peace) also said:

“That which intoxicates in large quantities is prohibited in small quantities.” (Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, and others, with a sound chain of narrators)

So here there is no need to doubt the illicit nature of such modern narcotics like cocaine, heroine, etc. or such soft drugs that are available in the club scenes, places, unfortunately, visited frequently by Muslim youth in the West.

Therefore, explain to you friend that, all drugs are Haram due to the fact that they intoxicate a person in one way or another. One looses the ability to think and reflect in a proper manner, and that is intoxication. If you have a local scholar, seek his advice and take your friend to him.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK

This text agrees with what I said, but I'm still going to criticize it.

First, it invents a bullshit argument about Cannabis being scientifically proven to do "much harm", kind of like a back-up from science proving that Islam is right (Islam, like most other religions, ignores science when it does not support its theology, but exploits it when it does...n't).

Then, it quotes a passage from the Sahih al-Bukhari, one of the major Hadith collections (Hadith being oral traditions about what the Prophet said and did, etc), which proves what? That someone said that the Prophet once said that... Nothing more.

There is doubt on what the Quran means, which is why certain Muslim cultures have acccepted psychoactive drugs historically. Today, radical Islam is trying to close that loop-hole... with texts like this one.