The oldest feud

[gramsci.antonio]

AKA organic vs mineral.

I know this has been debated before, and more often than not the discussion ended in a fight, so i hope this time to approach this question in a different manner: using the scientific method.


I think this is one of the biggest problem of our stoner community: the lack of serious experiments. In 10.000 years the human being didn't lifted himself from the ground of even 1 cm, but 200 years of scientific method brought us on the moon. So i wonder which marvelous things us stoners could do, with just a little more of science.

So the topic of this debate is: Is in ANY way an organic or semi-organic-based feeding schedule better than a mineral-based one?


The rules of the debate are quite simple:

A) No violence, no arrogance.

B) We don't believe you: You have to prove any of your statement putting your references in the post. Something is not true just because of the teller: the Academician method of debating come straight from the medieval and is of no use to us.

C) Verification of the sources: Not all the sources are right, especially in the internet era. Famous sources are preferred, the validity of a source will be evaluated on the number of times the source is quoted by other scientific publication.

D) Just post useful comments: I'm sure you all stoners understand how much this could help us, so please just post if you have something useful to the discussion.

!!!DIRECT EVIDENCE ARE APPRECIATED!!! If you have grown the same clone with the same light both with organic and mineral based nutrients, AND YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE APART YOUR WORD, than your contribute
is REALLY welcome!!!

The poll is just for all the stoners that don't have any direct contribute to the discussion, but still want to contribute somehow.


Have fun guys!!! I hope something great could come from this thread!!!

This is the kind of thread that could elevate this community to the level of OG....

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

This is an easy one.

Yes there are ways in which an organic feeding schedule is better.

There are also ways in which a mineral feeding schedule is better.

The above being true, there must be a way of achieving the ideal combination of the two for a given situation. This, I assume, is what you refer to as Semi-organic.

This topic is greatly influenced by personal preference, although the rules you have set forth in the first post will completely eliminate the "taste better" argument since no proof can be given and no source cited other than opinion. The "clean burning" argument gets to stand, however, since photographic evidence of a clean burn is easy to obtain. "Consensus" cannot be used to support an argument, since there is a fairly even split, and no consensus on the subject even in the academic community.

Should be an interesting thread, but I'll be surprised if anything conclusive results...

 

[gramsci.antonio]

This topic is greatly influenced by personal preference, although the rules you have set forth in the first post will completely eliminate the "taste better" argument since no proof can be given and no source cited other than opinion.

Actually the taste better argument is valid.

What i had in mind, was to avoid post such as: "I've grown and smoked for years organically and minerally grown bud and i can't see the difference".

I want to see a grow diary (or at least some photos!!!) of clones under the SAME light setup (possibly concurrently) and i want a statement that organically grown taste better. Even if this isn't strictly scientific, if a great number of people will prefer organic, than there should be a reason...

Moreover on the taste argument you should specify if you smoke cigaretts or drink alcool, because nicotine & drinks kill all the tastes...

Ideally this is a prosecum of the thread "the big secret". Just more scientific, thou.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Actually the taste better argument is valid.

B) We don't believe you: You have to prove any of your statement putting your references in the post. Something is not true just because of the teller

How can the claim that something taste better be anything other than asking someone to believe an unprovable statement?

 

[gramsci.antonio]

How can the claim that something taste better be anything other than asking someone to believe an unprovable statement?

Photos of the grow are considered as evidence, and are also questionable.

If you can prove that you have done a side by side comparison, than you argument is valid in the discussion.


Anyhow being accepted for the discussion is far from a verification.

A double blind test could be really appreciated.

If you want any infos on the best possible taste experiment you could do, then read this and gather some friends.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I do not smoke tobacco, and I rarely drink alcoholic beverages (maybe 2 in a week but none some weeks).

 

[gramsci.antonio]

I do not smoke tobacco, and I rarely drink alcoholic beverages (maybe 2 in a week but none some weeks).

and you don't notice any difference in taste?



If you have also evidence of a side by side grow, and you could do a double blind test with a bunch of friends, than i think your would be quite a strong argument for the discussion.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Photos are nowhere near as questionable as evidence as an opinion about flavor.

but if opinions on flavor matter, I have not ever smoked any of the same cuts I grow which were superior in flavor to what I'm growing right now. That includes organic done by me and several others as well as semi-organic.


I already answered the question here, though... and with the only correct answer...

Yes there are ways in which an organic feeding schedule is better.

There are also ways in which a mineral feeding schedule is better.

The only thing to discuss would be all the reasons for each statement. Unless your rules exclude personal opinion, all of these arguments can be viewed in about 6 other threads hereabouts....

 

[gramsci.antonio]

The only thing to discuss would be all the reasons for each statement. Unless your rules exclude personal opinion, all of these arguments can be viewed in about 6 other threads hereabouts....

you could discuss this statements, using the other threads as reference

 

[Ronley]

Who cares?
Stoners will be stoners will be stoners. They want thier weed!!!
They are not going to care if its organic or mineral.
US the growers wants results and good results and will use the best possible formula that they can get. - Organic or mineral. If its going to help the final bud we will use it.
All my nutrients are Bio Nova. I am very satisfied with this product and I dont know actually care how organic this product is but I use it.

I strive for quality, excellence, prize winning buds. Use the best genetics, and have spendt 1000's of Shekels on my grow. I personally smoke my best cured weed, So The bottom line here is that I do care about my final bud and smoke at the end of the day.
- Be it Organic or Mineral.
So as your pole says- I choose the option of "Please go get a job!!!."

 

[gramsci.antonio]

Who cares?
Stoners will be stoners will be stoners. They want thier weed!!!
They are not going to care if its organic or mineral.
US the growers wants results and good results and will use the best possible formula that they can get. - Organic or mineral. If its going to help the final bud we will use it.
All my nutrients are Bio Nova. I am very satisfied with this product and I dont know actually care how organic this product is but I use it.

I strive for quality, excellence, prize winning buds. Use the best genetics, and have spendt 1000's of Shekels on my grow. I personally smoke my best cured weed, So The bottom line here is that I do care about my final bud and smoke at the end of the day.
- Be it Organic or Mineral.
So as your pole says- I choose the option of "Please go get a job!!!."

Ok ok, this is an opinion and i respect it.

I just hope to build this thread on evidences rather than opinions.

I'm looking for a proof, and for god sake i'm going to find it!!!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

and you don't notice any difference in taste?



If you have also evidence of a side by side grow, and you could do a double blind test with a bunch of friends, than i think your would be quite a strong argument for the discussion.

I don't have evidence, just my word.
I have grown organically. That was the only way I grew for better than a decade. I've used organic products, and I've made mixes "straight from the farm". I've smoked the same cuts grown by consummate organic growers.

Truth is I notice big differences in taste.

I know three other growers growing the same way I am and another three who either grow organically or semi-organically. All the growers have the same cuts I do. No two growers buds from the same cut taste identical. I prefer mine. I can't offer any evidence that I prefer mine... I can provide statements from another person who has smoked the same samples and is of the same opinion.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I just hope to build this thread on evidences rather than opinions.

Then what flavors one prefers has to be left out.

 

[gramsci.antonio]

I don't have evidence, just my word.
I have grown organically. That was the only way I grew for better than a decade. I've used organic products, and I've made mixes "straight from the farm". I've smoked the same cuts grown by consummate organic growers.

Truth is I notice big differences in taste.

I know three other growers growing the same way I am and another three who either grow organically or semi-organically. All the growers have the same cuts I do. No two growers buds from the same cut taste identical. I prefer mine. I can't offer any evidence that I prefer mine... I can provide statements from another person who has smoked the same samples and is of the same opinion.

and you grow using Gh Flora Micro + Bloom in coco and nothing else?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

and you grow using Gh Flora Micro + Bloom in coco and nothing else?

exactly, and doing it as per my thread in my sig line.

 

[gramsci.antonio]

Then what flavors one prefers has to be left out.

No. That's not true.


Scientific method has overcome this difficulty using the double blind test: If the most people (the more the better) will prefer the organic bud after a double blind test, than organic bud won.

 

[Ronley]

Oh, and everyone, BUT Everyone who has sampled my weed, claim it to be GREAT tasting weed. From my the lesser potent strains to the extremely potent strains. They all say its superb tasting.
A quality product once flushed properly, once cured properly, is guaranted for excellance.

 

[gramsci.antonio]

Oh, and everyone, BUT Everyone who has sampled my weed, claim it to be GREAT tasting weed. From my the lesser potent strains to the extremely potent strains. They all say its superb tasting.
A quality product once flushed properly, once cured properly, is guaranted for excellance.

Someone could object: they said it was great weed just because they were grateful to be able to smoking. I did the same thing uncountable times with women cooking for me, just because it was a guaranteed fuck afterward


I think that to accept a taste argument, at least a blind test is required, with a double blind test preferred.


ps: by the way, i'm SURE your weed is great. Could you offer me some?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

No. That's not true.


Scientific method has overcome this difficulty using the double blind test: If the most people (the more the better) will prefer the organic bud after a double blind test, than organic bud won.

No. That's why there are both coke and pepsi on the market. Flavor is 100% subjective.

Poll in one market coke wins, poll another market pepsi wins

Besides the fact that no two growers are going to grow identical tasting herb, no matter what the method.


Now, if there were some way for you to measure the flavinoids and terpinoids it would mean something.

 

[gramsci.antonio]

No. That's why there are both coke and pepsi on the market. Flavor is 100% subjective.


Besides the fact that no two growers are going to grow identical tasting herb, no matter what the method.


Now, if there were some way for you to measure the flavinoids and terpinoids it would mean something.

yeah you could measure them, but i think that this means also nothing because maybe some "bad" terps are in there...


Anyhow about cola and pepsi: Before selling a new product, the corporation test it on a WIDE number of consumers using the double blind test...


It's true that cola and pepsi are two possibile individual choice, but their formulation has won over thousands of other slightly different recipe to appeal the biggest possible number of costumers...