BigTokes ~ "How-To" Of The Bio-Buckets 101

[Rattrap]

I've tried the bubble cloning thing with wildly random success, its actually how i would prefer to clone for the buckets but the results for me were so hit & miss that i've stuck with rockwool for now. I hadn't actually thought of rooting in loose coco, i guess it should work ok & as u said most of the medium should wash off easy. Might be worth a trial.

 

[gmanwho]

Ratt.. i do the same as raygun. works great. Peat or coco or perlite/verm rooting. then rinse the medium out in 2 stages i found works best. 1st dunking takes 90% of the medium from the roots, and the 2nd cleaner water dunk gets like the other 8-9 %. Luke warm water.

those jiffy pods probably will stay to wet. I found even with rockwool they stay to wet in a bio / dwc type system. Bugs like the moisture, and mold & algae can form as well.

I also try to keep the bottom of the plant (just at the beginning of the root mass) above the water line. Seems to work better for me if i practice this.

B-safe

 

[Rattrap]

Thanks Gman. I want to be able to get my clones to a stage where they have a good root structure, round 3-4" long before i transfer them into the netpots as i've found that they seem to take off better with less chance of them falling over if they've got a good root size to them.
When using rockwool cubes i always sit them in the net pots with at least 1/2 the cube sticking out of the medium to stop them from getting too wet.

 

[Rainman]

Just wanted to say whats up to the man Biketoke and say thanks for the straight knowledge!!! I will be dropping my thread in a few weeks and it is all due to you!!! I switched from dirt to the buckets a few grows back and....

This:

Leads to this!

And this!

And this!


and some of these!!!

A few more of these!!!



Bigtoke you are the man and this thread helped me make the jump successfully to organic bio-buckets! Respect and I will check back in in a few weeks. Peace!

 

[BigToke]

3BM ~ planning always pays off…..

daltron >Jr. ~ thanks for the prop’s…..I thought very well of your dad and wish you the best of luck, you are more than welcome here and it’s good to see a chip off the old block…lol.

opt1c ~ those are some nice pics, thanks…..love the setup of what I can make of it, looks like you’ve put some time into it…..

Rainman ~ nice pics bro……thanks for the props…

 

[Simpleton]

Is the advantage of using synthetic nutes being able to read them (ppm strengths) as opposed to organic sources(unreadable)?

I can't see being able to maintain a organic solution in this system without complete drainage and refill.

I read this post for the last 2hrs and couldn't find a nutrient source(make).

Also, what do you think of 18 net pots being place into one large trough that was circulated rather than each one in a individual 5gal bucket?

Thanks.

 

[BigToke]

I have never ran organic solution in the Bio-Bucket system ~ 3-part general hydroponics is what I have always used ~ the main reason why I choose the synthetic nutrients is control.

I cannot say how that would turn out as I have never done that….. would each 18-inch net-pot have it’s own two inch waterfall as the 5-gallon bucket does? Would there be one large reservoir with a 6-inch to 12-inch drop waterfall?

 

[Simpleton]

Thanks for the nute info Bigtoke....

Not 18" net pots but your same 8", just in a trough roughly the same dimensions as your 18 bucket area. Actually, you could design the trough to be the exact same volume of water you're using now.

As far as the waterfall is concerned, are you referring to the mini-waterfall at the line in at each 5 gallon bucket or the fall from the drainline to the 4" back to the res?

It just seems to me that this system could be simplified to one large "BioBucket" rather than individual buckets and all necessary hardware that goes along with it. With there being no root rot involved, it doesn't seem to involve any sort of risk by grouping plants in the same area. Also it seems to me that the BioBuckets seem sorta rootbound at the end of harvest. Although your plant isn't showing signs of being troubled by the constriction, Imagine a trough with ZERO root constriction. But hey, your saying that growth is outta control now...How much would this antagonize that problem?

As far as the water fall, whether it be at the line in, line out, or at the res, there are plenty of solutions to this. I was thinking that one could run 11/2" rigid PVC line as the fill, using T's and plumbing say at 20" intervals 21/2" from the top along the length of the "trough" rather than just one line in. That would provide air at that point.

With the drain, or line out, one could use 11/2 or 2" that dropped into a 6" line back to the res. Rather than just drop into a sloping 6" that went back to the res, you could use T's on the 6" with say a 10" riser to catch the drain, also at 20" intervals. Drain into the top of the 10" riser creating Oxygen where it falls before it makes its way back to the res where you would have your original drop there as well.

With your pots being as close as they are to each other, the res size wouldn't jump much higher in size. Your really only making a trough about the same area as your buckets but filling in the empty spaces with H2O. Even though you could definitely go as large as you wanted up to a certain degree?, I am just trying to imagine your system's size in a "one bucket" design as far as dimensions are concerned. As I said before, the Single "bucket" or trough could be the same volume of water you are using now.

I know from messing with strains that don't grow much after the flip what root space can do and have found that un-inhibiting root formation makes a huge difference.

Your system intrigued me and got me noodle rattling a little.

These troughs and lids can be made outta fiberglass and once you've made one, make a mold and your off and running.

 

[candamo]

Hey BigToke! ive been reading your guide and i find very interesting. So I wanna try it in my second grow. My setup will consist in 2x400w hps and 6 buckets, i will post pics as soon as i get the build going.

I got a question though, i understand that the lava rocks are the "special ingredient" that makes the water to stay useable for longer time via the microbes and stuff.
If i cant find lava rocks here in my country (peru), *yet*. Are there any alternative to it?

cheers

 

[jtk707]

HURRAY FOR BIG TOKE

HURRAY FOR BIG TOKE

Thank you for the insiratio BIG TOKE

 

[jtk707]

SPELL CHECK

SPELL CHECK

THE WORD IS INSPIRATION

 

[RollinRuger]

Do you use a seperate biobucket veg room?clone to flower? or veg and bloom in same room? Thinking of using the biobuckets in two 6x6x7h green houses how many would you recommend in each? Also would you run it out of one res or make them seperate. thank you for the tutorial

 

[stonedm]

first off let me say thanks big toke for starting this thread. now then i have a room thats 9x9 with a 2.5 x 5 closet.I plan on running a 24 bucket setup with an 18 gallon reservoir which will be located in the closet and 1600 watts pumpin out over everything.A few questions if you will: 1. I plan on using a 650g/h pump (mainly becasue I already have it and don't have to buy one) do you think it will be too much? 2.how often do you add nutes? 3. how do you adjust the O2 exchange per hour if your pump runs 24/7? thanks for everything in advance

 

[stonedm]

omit question 2 i'm retarded

 

[daltron]

Lava rocks

Lava rocks

I got a question though, i understand that the lava rocks are the "special ingredient" that makes the water to stay usable for longer time via the microbes and stuff.
If i cant find lava rocks here in my country (peru), *yet*. Are there any alternative to it?
cheers

Lava rocks are used world wide by landscapers find a garden center that sells top soil and rocks and they will probably have lava rock or be able to tell you where to find them. If that is not possible find a high end store that sells good gas BarB Que's, the replacement stones sold for the gas BBQ's are usually lava rocks , but they may be more expensive. good luck, daltron jr.

 

[felderosa]

hey BT, do you know if diatomaceous earth would work as growing medium? its porous and also full of silica... heres a wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

 

[rafe]

Lava rocks

Lava rocks

Lava rock do work great. I bought a bag at a cheap superstore and sat down with a brick and a hammer. Soaked them in water for a few minutes and broke the ones that were too big and it didn't take long to finish a bag. I got a lot of real good material. I like it because it gets stable easier than the hydroton and it's easier to support your lanky seedlings.

 

[LORD BENIS]

I always thought this would be a good idea, more surface area and a little easier for the roots to move the rocks around, sorta like hydroton, but the best of both worlds.

 

[opt1c]

a bunch of questions and whatnot

a bunch of questions and whatnot

ok... i've been reading thread after thread and it seems like most of the relevant info for the biobuckets has been dispersed across this forum and i've ran into some conflicting, and at times, misleading posts that have left me with some questions so without further adieu...

Current Feeding Ratio for GH 3part in Bio Buckets
Veg 0-2-1
Flower 0-2-3
Is this still the recommended ratio?? I burned the hell out of the roots of a weaker strain using the GH grow... now, i think, i know better

Secret Sauce
Big-Toke: do you use homemade paclo in the bio-buckets and, if so, when do you add it and how does it work without flushing?

Water Temps
75 for first week, or two, depending on system size
72 for Veg
68 for Flower
Does this sound right? Is there an ideal temp or range to be in with the buckets? Do lower temps negatively affect the microbes? Is there a temp that is too low? Should the bio-buckets run hotter than your normal dwc because of the microbes?

EC of TDS referred to in previous posts
Big-Toke:I don't think this has been answered but when you say 400ppm that translates to what EC?

CO2 and Bio-Buckets
What temps would take advantage of the CO2 without causing the water to get too warm. Is there a temp the water should never go over?? Is a bigger chiller the best way to take advantage of the CO2? Is there an ideal PPM of CO2 for the bio-system? I've seen recommendations anywhere from 1100ppm to 1800ppm as far as the ideal CO2 ppm goes; anyone have any thoughts on this?

Ok... that's all for now.

 

[Jesusbuiltmygro]

Simpleton...... The BioTub needs to be done justice be someone. There have been prototype's but no standardized and proven setup.

Obviously, it's all just a matter of medium and oxygen content, but with a somewhat unspoken emphasis on water temps.

In my opinion, a chiller makes almost any hydro system kick ass.

Buckets are primarily just nice because they support big, low maintenance trees. The bio part exists in every hydroponic system, but balance it is a challenge.

It's also why you should stick to the original General Hydroponics or other simple chemical nutrient solutions.

Without an ability to really measure beneficial bacteria the bio approach is a bit of a guessing game, especially in such a short term ecosystem.

As it stands most hydroponics growers, even the pros, could learn a lot about bacteria cycles and ecosystems going on in their grows. A well run aquarium is actually a great starting place to get the best grip on bio-filtering in general.

There are many ways to engineer a bio-filter. The bucket method isn't quite perfect and self containment would be ideal, especially for the majority of growers which could get by with 1-4 tubs. Huge grows might enjoy the modularity of mass produced bucket systems, but for many it's a system prone to overflows and root rot.

There should be a better self contained bio system for the modest grower.

I wish we'd get more input from people ACTUALLY running these things, especially on the bio factor of things. Experiments with growing medium size and type and oxygen content with monitored water temps would BE A START.

A major advantage would be not needing the waterfall such as a common recirculating system which doesn't need so much ground clearance. If we knew more about dissolved oxygen level, flow rate and temps in these system it would help a lot.

It seems most people chose the simpler self container DWC Bubbler system. A rubbermaid with an air stone.

Nimby had bioTubs running back in the day same as a DWC but with more water movement and higher oxygen levels. I forget the type of pump he used, but it sucked in oxygen as it pumped, certainly some aquarium style pump.

I think this system merged with a recirculated DWC design and more dissolved oxygen would prove to be easier to setup, cheaper and far less prone to leakage. The root clog/overflow problem is serious.

An ideal system would provide a level of water such as SWC in case of pump failure, but not have a simple overflow drain which can clog easily. SWC In general means more oxygen which is most cases is more limiting than massive amounts of water.

Eventually it leads you to aeroponics which is truly the best since it uses much less water and nutrients, but of course, far less practical to setup and rely on.

Here of course you have the great problem of working in beneficial bacteria, but THAT SHOULD be all fixable if you designed a better external bio filter. However, there will always be a trade off from the lack of perfect medium such as soil provides for every type of beneficial bacteria and fungus.

Biobuckets are a decent solution, but I argue that you could add the oxygen in a better way and be more self contained. This would lower the height profile and the overflow problem. Dual overflow drains might prove to be useful for some growers who will inevitably have root clog problems.

It's odd that the biobucket have a problem with organic nutrients. To me, this suggestion their a major piece of the puzzle missing of creating a cheap and reliable ecosystem for your plants.