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New Study Suggests Cannabis Shrink Brain Parts

Rosy Cheeks

dancin' cheek to cheek
Veteran
Highly controvercial as study, still it should be talked about:

http://www.reuters.com/article/life...7420080602?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Long-term heavy use of marijuana may cause two important brain structures to shrink, Australian researchers said on Monday.

Brain scans showed the hippocampus and amygdala were smaller in men who were heavy marijuana users compared to nonusers, the researchers said. The men had smoked at least five marijuana cigarettes daily for on average 20 years.

The hippocampus regulates memory and emotion, while the amygdala plays a critical role in fear and aggression.

The study, published in the American Medical Association's journal Archives of General Psychiatry, also found the heavy cannabis users earned lower scores than the nonusers in a verbal learning task -- trying to recall a list of 15 words.

The marijuana users were more likely to exhibit mild signs of psychotic disorders, but not enough to be formally diagnosed with any such disorder, the researchers said.

"These findings challenge the widespread perception of cannabis as having limited or no harmful effects on (the) brain and behavior," said Murat Yucel of ORYGEN Research Centre and the University of Melbourne, who led the study.

"Like with most things, some people will experience greater problems associated with cannabis use than others," Yucel said in an e-mail. "Our findings suggest that everyone is vulnerable to potential changes in the brain, some memory problems and psychiatric symptoms if they use heavily enough and for long enough."

Among the 15 heavy marijuana users in the study, the hippocampus volume was 12 percent less and the amygdala volume was 7 percent less than in 16 men who were not marijuana users, the researchers said.

The researchers acknowledged that the study did not prove it was the marijuana and not some other factor that triggered these brain differences. But Yucel said the findings certainly suggested marijuana was the cause.

"STONED" FOR 20 YEARS

While about half of the marijuana users reported experiencing some form of paranoia and social withdrawal, only one of the nonusers reported such symptoms, Yucel said.

The heavy marijuana users, average age 40, said they had used other illicit drugs less than 10 times, the researchers said.

A U.S. group supporting legal sales and regulation of marijuana took issue with the findings, particularly because they were based on men who were such heavy, long-term users.

"These were people who were essentially stoned all day every day for 20 years," Marijuana Policy Project spokesman Bruce Mirken said by e-mail. "This study says nothing about moderate or occasional users, who are the vast majority -- and the (study) even acknowledges this."

"The documented damage caused by comparably heavy use of alcohol or tobacco is just off-the-charts more serious, and you don't need high-tech scans to find it," Mirken added.

Yucel said the researchers have begun new research on the effects of both short-term and long-term and moderate and heavy use of marijuana.
 

DoubleJ

Member
How much did this study cost?

Any stoner could tell you getting high all day is gonna fuck your memory, nothing new here...
 
U

ureapwhatusow

come on, testing 15 people and submitting it to a medical journal as a global medical finding is so george w bushleague
 

flubnutz

stoned agin ...
Veteran
first, whats ORYGEN Research centre. do they have any funding from politically affiliated groups? if they do, then automatically the study becomes suspect. if not maybe its credible. with that name sounds like they have an island with a bunch of air crash victims theyre toyin with. :rasta:

problem remembering things. duhh.

there was a decrease in the volume of the hippocampus and amygdala, assume thats correct. what are the effects of such reductions? does it cause an imbalance in the endocrine system that causes emotional changes? are they worse than the ones my wife has monthly?

the point made by MPP is spot on :yes: big up to them for being on top of it, and also for reuters for reporting it; FOX probably wouldn't.

honest research into mj is always needed. rational dialogue regarding the balance between personal choice and the need to protect society against itself, thats hard to come by.
 

strained

Member
you guys should read the botany of desire by micheal pollan an entire section is dedicated to marijuana and he makes the argument very convincingly that forgetting is actually beneficial in remembering the things that really matter. a definatly thought provoking book
 
U

ureapwhatusow

15 people is like testing 1 millionth of our countires smoking population let alone the world

its propaganda pure and simple
 

Echoes

Member
Interesting but should be researched more thoroughly

Interesting but should be researched more thoroughly

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=ORYGEN_Research_Centre

""ORYGEN Research Centre is grateful for the support of the following organisations in supporting reserach activities: [3]

* Alcohol Education and Rehabilitation Foundation Ltd
* ANZ Charitable Trusts
* AstraZeneca Pty Ltd
* beyondblue
* Colonial Foundation Ltd
* National Illicit Drugs Strategy, Commonwealth Government
* Eli Lilly
* Janssen-Cilag
* Lilly Melbourne Academic Consortium
* Myer Foundation
* National Health & Medical Research Council
* Novartis
* Pfizer
* Telematics Trust
* Theodore & Vada Stanley Foundation
* Victorian Department of Human Services, Mental Health Branch
* Victorian Department of Human Services, Public Health, Drugs Unit "

This study seems a bit flawed. Their sample size wasn't large enough at all, the funding sources seem slightly biased (though that doesn't mean a conspiracy, I just don't necessarily trust these companies,) and also this bit "The researchers acknowledged that the study did not prove it was the marijuana and not some other factor that triggered these brain differences. " Seems to me they really didn't prove anything. I'm no scientist but it seems like they could've done a better job considering the affluence of the funding sources. Probably just more news fodder to toss out there against the people who don't actually read articles or anti-cannabis people.
 
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Sammet said:
Yea I second the debunking thread idea :yes:

It seems like every 3 months there's a new "scientific research" that supposedly prove mj causes a health or mental problem. Bunch of horse shit. Basically what it is, is that the pharmaceutical companies don't want mj cutting in on their action.

Sammet said:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Long-term heavy use of marijuana may cause two important brain structures to shrink, Australian researchers said on Monday.

That's quite a breathtaking claim, let's see if it holds up.

Sammet said:
Brain scans showed the hippocampus and amygdala were smaller in men who were heavy marijuana users compared to nonusers, the researchers said. The men had smoked at least five marijuana cigarettes daily for on average 20 years.

Did researchers measure the hippocampus and amygdala of these men before they became heavy mj smokers? If not, the study is worthless. There's the possibility that the men already had small hippocampus and amygdala. People with a small hippocampus and amygdala are a hundred times more likely to participate in a research project that will pay them $100 a day. People who are functioning normally, working a full-time job and paying their bills, might not be interested in being a guinea pig for asshole sell-out scientists.

THEIR SAMPLE IS WORTHLESS.

That's what I detest about media reporting of research. They make wild claims that are often off-base or easy to refute.

Sammet said:
The marijuana users were more likely to exhibit mild signs of psychotic disorders, but not enough to be formally diagnosed with any such disorder, the researchers said.

It is well known that people with problems such as depression and anxiety tend to self-medicate. This is old news. These people bring a pre-existing condition with them. Just ask yourself why would someone want to be a heavy user in the first place. There's usually a good reason for it.

Sammet said:
"These findings challenge the widespread perception of cannabis as having limited or no harmful effects on (the) brain and behavior," said Murat Yucel of ORYGEN Research Centre and the University of Melbourne, who led the study.

"Like with most things, some people will experience greater problems associated with cannabis use than others," Yucel said in an e-mail. "Our findings suggest that everyone is vulnerable to potential changes in the brain, some memory problems and psychiatric symptoms if they use heavily enough and for long enough."

It's breathtaking how ignorant and stupid scientists like Yucel can be, when they make these reckless claims based upon shoddy evidence that is easy to refute by anyone with a grain of sense. Come off of it, "Yu-sell-out". You're making this claim based upon fifteen people that you took off the street and paid to participate in your crap study? Yu-sell-out should have his college degree revoked.

I used to believe that science would be the salvation of humanity, but nowadays it looks more and more like science will be perverted to the agenda of powerful corporations, wealthy individuals, and corrupt governments such as China.

Many of these well-funded scientists seem to have no sense of ethics or morality, they just prostitute themselves and reach whatever conclusion that is desired by their patrons, in this case the big pharma's. Whatever happened to pure research for the sake of learning? Whatever happened to the desire for objective truth?

The media is no better, it reports these "findings" like they are gospel, when they are as far as could be from the truth.
 
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flubnutz

stoned agin ...
Veteran
zeeba amoeba said:
It is well known that people with problems such as depression and anxiety tend to self-medicate. This is old news. These people bring a pre-existing condition with them. Just ask yourself why would someone want to be a heavy user in the first place. There's usually a good reason for it.
excellent point ... which came first, chicken or egg?

zeeba amoeba said:
It's breathtaking how ignorant and stupid scientists like Yucel can be, when they make these great leaps based upon shoddy evidence that is easy to refute by anyone with a grain of sense.
id give him a little benefit of the doubt they did put in the big rider clause and you know how the press can be sensationalistic.

zeeba amoeba said:
I used to believe that science would be the salvation of humanity, but nowadays it looks more and more like science will be perverted to the agenda of powerful corporations, wealthy individuals, and corrupt governments such as China.
the problem is science is done by humans :rasta:

zeeba amoeba said:
Many of these well-funded scientists seem to have no sense of ethics or morality, they just prostitute themselves and reach whatever conclusion that is desired by their patrons, in this case the big pharma's. Whatever happened to pure research for the sake of learning? Whatever happened to the desire for objective truth?
i think it disappeared with public funding for research & ed.
 

BACKCOUNTRY

Mourning the loss of my dog......
Veteran
I smoke about 3 full bowls a day max, every day, if you are smoking 5 joints to yourself a day, you need to figure out whats wrong with your cannabis potentcy.

I know too many folks in their 60s who have smoked mod-heavy since their 20s, who are doing quite well, just like me they forget minor details while in the grasp of the smoke, but things are normal again the next day.

The more negetive reports on Cannabis often seem to come from New Zealand/Austrailia, I wonder why that is?? I have noticed that Opium cultivation and use seems more common there than in most "western" nations, I wonder if this could play a part?
 

flubnutz

stoned agin ...
Veteran
thats interestin what is the weed situation in oz, anybody know? i thought they had conservative govt could be anti weed maybe media (MURDOCH). maybe they got a prob with lots of nice thai comin in, not that i see any problem with that :rasta:
 

Stoner4Life

Medicinal Advocate
ICMag Donor
Veteran
As I recall it was comic genius Steve Martin in the 70s who coined or made most popular the phrase, 'getting small'.......
 
flubnutz said:
id give him a little benefit of the doubt they did put in the big rider clause and you know how the press can be sensationalistic.

Yeah, that's why I don't watch TV news, because it's 98% horse dukey, designed to press people's buttons and make them react emotionally rather than in a rational objective manner. FOX news is the clearest case in point, but I have to admit the other news channels aren't very good either.

flubnutz said:
the problem is science is done by humans :rasta:
i think it disappeared with public funding for research & ed.

We can thank the Bush administration for that, they've cut the purse strings for a lot of research branches. Most research seems to be centered around military crap, while other countries are focused on economic issues. Is it any wonder the economy isn't looking so hot right now? Unless war becomes a profitable venture then the future of America doesn't look that bright.
 

bounty29

Custom User Title
Veteran
There's no doubt in my mind that long term cannabis use will cause some negative effects, but will it kill you? No. Will it render you unable to breathe? No. Will it give you cancer? Not that anyone knows of so far. Everything has it's Pros and Cons, and if somebody was presented with a list of Pros and Cons for all substances and told to choose which was legal and which was not based on that, there's no doubt in my mind Marijuana would be legal and there's a high possibility that Alcohol and Tobacco would be illegal. They just keep trying to find bad things about weed, because they refuse to believe it's really not that bad.
 
I agree good find on the funding of the study. its a little amusing that the sample size was so small when i know plenty of stoners who would gladly answer your questions and let you scan their brain. Why tell people that long term heavy use CAN cause 7% and 12% loss of brain matter, when we know that long term alcohol abuse WILL turn your ENTIRE liver into a stone. LOL when you look at the alternative i would rather have a slighty reduced brain function like short term memory than a completely un-functioning stone of a liver.
 

greenhead

Active member
Veteran
VanillaGueriila said:
LOL when you look at the alternative i would rather have a slighty reduced brain function like short term memory than a completely un-functioning stone of a liver.

And also, weed doesn't cause this, alcohol does.

m960_1212441172.jpg

:joint: :wave:
 

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