Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[HempKat]

Whats up Kat. I have my 400w HPS about a foot away from my plants, and i have a fan right next to it filtering the air out of the grow room. It keeps the room a nice temp. Do you think i could get it a little closer to my plants? I am not sure where exactly to keep it. My plants have been under all fluorescent light for a month. Should i keep the light pretty far so they can get used to it, or just blast em? Thanks for any help!

Well the rcommended distance for optimal growth for HIDs is:

400W - 12 Inches
600W - 18 Inches
1000W - 24 Inches

So if you're one foot away with a 400W you're right where you should be. Now if you just moved clones over from fluoro's today, then the suggested procedure would be to start it about 6" further away or 18" in your case. Then adjust the light an inch closer each day until it's a 12" and then maintain that. Although that's really more for clones or seedlings that have just barely established and are then moved to a stronger light. Having been there for a month (under fluoros) the plants are probably strong enough to just start at 12" and not worry about getting them used to it. I just did that myself with some clones about a month old except I have a 1000W so the distance is 2 feet. They're doing just fine and have already grown at least an inch in 24 hours.

In theory you can get the light as close as you can as long as you're still maintaining good temps at the canopy. However, even if the temps are good you can still have harmful effects to the plant from a light that's too close. Namely what they call bleaching aka light stress. That's why the recommended distance is said to be optimal. You can potentially get closer but it's not as good for the plant as the recommended distance. Another factor to consider is the closer the light the smaller the footprint, if you have the maximum number of plants a light can handle the plants on the outer edge of your space will not get as much light as they should because there is not enough distance for it to radiate out that far before traveling past the plants.

 

[dschwizz]

What is going on here???

This plant was strong before, looked better than this one,





I think I may still be overwatering, but I only gave it 110ml, and the soil was dry when i watered it. I recently gave the plants more ferts, but only this one has reacted in such a way.

Did the Angel of Death touch my plant??

 

[HempKat]

What is going on here???

This plant was strong before, looked better than this one,





I think I may still be overwatering, but I only gave it 110ml, and the soil was dry when i watered it. I recently gave the plants more ferts, but only this one has reacted in such a way.

Did the Angel of Death touch my plant??

Do you have drainage holes? If so what's the drainage like? Overwatering is not just a matter of how much water you give but also how often. If the plant isn't using up all the water between waterings the plant is still over watered regardless of the amount you actually give each watering. You can't really go by "The soil feels dry" either. The soil on the surface directly exposed to the light will seem bone dry long before the soil deeper in the pot will be dry. The only way to fairly judge dryness by touch is to stick one's finger all the way down in the soil to the bottom of the pot but to do that regularly would be bad for the roots. That's why the recommended way to judge dryness is to lift the pot and plant when you first put it in a pot before you water and then keep lifting it each day until it's almost as light again. That's when you water again, typically for most plants in a reasonable sized pot for the plant's current size the period between waterings is about four to five days at first. As the pot fills with roots that period will shorten to every two to three days. When it gets to every two days the pot is close to being root bound. If you don't transplant then you'll start to see leaves yellowing and dying off because the plant needs more then the small pot can properly provide. You can wait a bit longer if you want and it'll get to where it needs water every day but I say it's better to transplant before it gets that bad.

If I had to guess I'd say what is going on in your situation is that something slowed root developement on that one plant and it's not using the water up as quickly as the others. You probably water it with the others though and since the others appear to be okay it suggests they're using the water up fine inbetween waterings but this one is not and now that build up of watering is likely causing root rott making the plant even worse.

 

[supersonic]

thanks HempKat for answer... maybe I placed them wrong but it only happened with Maroc, 1st time I saw that in 8 years... I'll be more carefull with maroc...

thanks

 

[PrideofCucamong]

Hey there hempkat, I have question for you. I have a skunk #1 and a bigbud/skunk #1 cross under a 400w hps. They are in promix seedling started. I am fertilizing them with Botanicare pureblend pro at 7ml per gallon. They are 1 1/2 to two months old. They suffered from overwatering that stunted their growth when they were younger.

My skunk #1 looks as though it is suffering from over watering, I gave it a bit to much water last time. The leaves are are droopy and the they are getting a bit of yellowing at the bottom. One leaf is also developed oddly. It has holes in the middle and of the leaf. The leaves also developed brown/yellow tips that are hard to the touch. It recently developed similar brown spots on the sides of the leaves. It looks like it is over fertilized from this, but it may be the overwatering. I am just not sure








This is my skunk1/big bud, has a bit of brown tips also



Thanks for the advise, your alot of help kat.

 

[HempKat]

thanks HempKat for answer... maybe I placed them wrong but it only happened with Maroc, 1st time I saw that in 8 years... I'll be more carefull with maroc...

thanks

Given your experience and that this is the first time it's happened, I'd say it was just one of those odd moments we all have from time to time.

 

[HempKat]

Hey there hempkat, I have question for you. I have a skunk #1 and a bigbud/skunk #1 cross under a 400w hps. They are in promix seedling started. I am fertilizing them with Botanicare pureblend pro at 7ml per gallon. They are 1 1/2 to two months old. They suffered from overwatering that stunted their growth when they were younger.

My skunk #1 looks as though it is suffering from over watering, I gave it a bit to much water last time. The leaves are are droopy and the they are getting a bit of yellowing at the bottom. One leaf is also developed oddly. It has holes in the middle and of the leaf. The leaves also developed brown/yellow tips that are hard to the touch. It recently developed similar brown spots on the sides of the leaves. It looks like it is over fertilized from this, but it may be the overwatering. I am just not sure








This is my skunk1/big bud, has a bit of brown tips also



Thanks for the advise, your alot of help kat.

Well it looks like several things are going on there. The brown discolored part on that upper leaf appears to be from getting too close to the light. I couldn't see where you were talking about hit holes but holes in the middle of the leaf is often a sign or some form of pest. It also seems like you're keeping the lights too far away on most of them because most looked pretty severely stretched. Another thing is you appear to have a deficiency in the plants diet, perhaps in the micronutrients because none of them appear to have a very healthy color. My guess would be a Calcium and Magnesium deficiency one because that's a common micronutrient deficiency and also because they're important to the plant for processing Nitrogen into Chloraphyll and that what makes plants a nice, darker, healthier shade of green. Any over watering may have compounded these problems because root rott may have set in. Another thing is the soil you're using, there are different kinds of pro-mix, one is essentially all peat moss from what I've heard and as such is really more of a soiless mix and probably has little if any nutritional value of it's own which maybe why you have a micronutrient deficiency.

I'm thinking the most important issue to work on first would be the deficiency. Either find a good veg fert that has all the micronutrients or get a supplement that adds just micronutrients. Earth Juice Micro Blast seems to be a good product for this and isn't horribly expensive. You could also work on the stretch by making ure no plant is more then 2 to 3 inches from any of the lights. Be careful to not get too close though or you'll get more burning. I'm also wondering which Pure Blend Pro formula are you using? If it's the bloom formula that might explain the lack of dark greenness to the leaves since bloom formulas are light in Nitrogen usually. If so then get the Grow formula and use the grow for veg and the bloom for flower.

 

[PrideofCucamong]

Well it looks like several things are going on there. The brown discolored part on that upper leaf appears to be from getting too close to the light. I couldn't see where you were talking about hit holes but holes in the middle of the leaf is often a sign or some form of pest. It also seems like you're keeping the lights too far away on most of them because most looked pretty severely stretched. Another thing is you appear to have a deficiency in the plants diet, perhaps in the micronutrients because none of them appear to have a very healthy color. My guess would be a Calcium and Magnesium deficiency one because that's a common micronutrient deficiency and also because they're important to the plant for processing Nitrogen into Chloraphyll and that what makes plants a nice, darker, healthier shade of green. Any over watering may have compounded these problems because root rott may have set in. Another thing is the soil you're using, there are different kinds of pro-mix, one is essentially all peat moss from what I've heard and as such is really more of a soiless mix and probably has little if any nutritional value of it's own which maybe why you have a micronutrient deficiency.

The brown tips occured when i had them under flourescent light. The tips might have been from the light, but it dosent explain the sides of the leaves. I just switched them to a 400w HPS. I am thinking about transplanting them into a good soil soon (3 gal buckets). I am going to pick up some micro nutrients today also, i hope they have earthjuice. I have been using Pureblend Pro-Grow, I think i might need to step up to 10-15ml per gallon.

Thanks for the help kat.

 

[alk_loid]

anyone have good ideas how to prevent smell?
i have carbon scrubber, used carbon that they sell for aquariums, now plants start to smell little but i can smell it in my room.
window is open most of the time, i havent smelled it outside house but when flowering smell gets only worse.
i have some elevtronic airfreshener, what sprays aroma every 18 minutes.

do ionizers help? it is supposed to be for removing smell, dust, good for humans for refreshing air.


i really need to work something out.

another option maybe make somekind of carbon filter and put in front of


theese kind of fan and let it purify air in room where cab is.


anyone.

 

[-ShutterBug-]

O.k. I got a question one fuddy duddy to another. Now I have a plant that in just prior to flushing was over-fertilized and began to throw nanners because of it. Now my question is, is if I decided to re-veg this girl, once clones of this have been taken and begin to flower will the clones taken off the re-veg throw nanners as well in flower, only earlier, or would it be ok as long as I didn't over-fert. it again?

 

[HempKat]

The brown tips occured when i had them under flourescent light. The tips might have been from the light, but it dosent explain the sides of the leaves. I just switched them to a 400w HPS. I am thinking about transplanting them into a good soil soon (3 gal buckets). I am going to pick up some micro nutrients today also, i hope they have earthjuice. I have been using Pureblend Pro-Grow, I think i might need to step up to 10-15ml per gallon.

Thanks for the help kat.

It doesn't have to be EarthJuice, I just named them because they're a decent respected brand. Since you're using PureBlend Pro I presume you want to go organic. Organic is fine but where it really matters the most is in flower as it is what's produced in flower that we harvest. With that in mind if they don't have EarthJuice you could get Peters 20-20-20. Now Peter's is a Chemical based fert but it's popular and many growers use it. One because it's cheap but hopefully more because it has a good balance of nutrients and micronutrients. So you could always hold off on the PBP Grow for a few feedings and give it the Peter's 20-20-20 to try to get it back on track.

If Chemical is just not an option for you then you can try to treat it with crushed up dolomite lime added to your next waterings. This will only work if your problem is a Calcium/Magnesium deficiency (which it's a good chance that's what it is). The EarthJuice is ideal though as it's a good product, organically based and covers more then just two of the micronutrients marijuana needs.

 

[HempKat]

anyone have good ideas how to prevent smell?
i have carbon scrubber, used carbon that they sell for aquariums, now plants start to smell little but i can smell it in my room.
window is open most of the time, i havent smelled it outside house but when flowering smell gets only worse.
i have some elevtronic airfreshener, what sprays aroma every 18 minutes.

do ionizers help? it is supposed to be for removing smell, dust, good for humans for refreshing air.


i really need to work something out.

another option maybe make somekind of carbon filter and put in front of


theese kind of fan and let it purify air in room where cab is.


anyone.

Ionizers, air fresheners and stuff like that won't work. They may mask the smell some but it'll usually still be noticable. Those types of air filtration or cleaning systems are meant for more common odors that are not nearly as strong as marijuana. I presume you took care of the leaks and it's still a problem?

Did you make your own carbon scrubber? If so then do you have a link to a tutorial or thread on how to make it, you used, that you could link me too? Also how much carbon would you say you used in total to make it? I ask because I'm wondering if it's a flawed design (Just because someone makes a tutorial doesn't mean it will work). Also there are some designs that don't require much carbon which may work for some low odor strains that don't smell as strong as most plants, but wouldn't begin to handle even the typical plant let alone a good skunky one. To give you an idea of how bad plants can be. I had a friend who did a grow in his basement in a room that was a closet with no scrubber or any special ventilation. He had 4 plants he flowered that would be considered average smelling. He lived in a pretty good sized 3 level townhouse. The entrance to the house was at ground level with the basement below ground. Plus the room the plants were in was on the opposite side of the house so the odor had to come up thru one floor and from the back of the house to the front, in order to reach the entrance. He invited me over to see it the day he told me about it (which was a mistake even though he can trust me because rule number 1 is tell nobody about your grow). I could smell his grow from the front door before he answered and it smelled like someone was just standing at the door smoking a joint (which of course there wasn't). Fortunately for him he never got busted. The problem is, we as growers get used to the smell so to us it's hardly noticable. I hadn't grown in a while at the time so the smell hit me like a non grower. Anyway, because of that I suspect some of the Do-It-Yourself tutorials for carbon scrubbers may be poorly designed trying to make it super cheap and easy to make or they may lack sufficient carbon to scrub the odor from the air. So I would like for us to analyze your carbon scrubber more closely. Maybe it's too small? Not that they need to be huge. Many grow spaces could get by with Carbon scrubbers no bigger then a 5 gallon bucket of paint as the biggest. The smaller the space the smaller the scrubber can be to a point. Your space shouldn't need a very big one from what I remember of the size of your space, so I'm wondering if there is a flaw in the design? I mean if the room is sealed except for the passive intake and you have air being pulled in and all the air being pulled out thru a scrubber then the problem has to be the scrubber because when done right they do one hell of a job. My current grow has 10 plants representing 4 strains two of which are considered extra smelly. My space is 5'x8'x8' and my carbon scrubber is about the size of a typical kitchen trashcan (13 gallons) and you can be standing just outside the door to my grow room and not smell it and the door is just an ordinary interior door that's mostly hollow. So we just need to figure out why your scrubber isn't working.

Another thing I'm wondering is, what exactly is the smell like? Are you smelling the plant or is the odor from soil and ferts and maybe is coming from another area where you store that stuff and the air isn't scrubbed? I ask that because some of the stuff growers use have very strong odors, especially organics. Like fish emulsion for example, that stuff has a very strong fishy smell and a small spill of it could put a fishy smell in a room. That's just an example of how powerful organics can be, I'm fairly sure if it was a fishy smell you would have mentioned that.

As for carbon in front of a fan that's not going to do much. It doesn't work by the carbon masking the odor in the air, it works by the air passing thru the carbon where the odor causing molecules get trapped in the carbon. That's why they call them scrubbers because it's like the carbon scrubs the odor from the air.

There is another option that's very effective when used correctly but is potentially hazardous to humans. Because of that risk I don't recommend them and if used it should be by someone very familiar with how to use it safely. It's called an ozone generater. Another draw back to these is they can get pricey. Also an ozone generater is really over for a relatively small cabinet. They make more sense in a large open room where using carbon scrubbers becomes more complcated because of size and the strength fan needed to work with it. I'm only mentioning it here since you're wanting to explore options.

 

[HempKat]

O.k. I got a question one fuddy duddy to another. Now I have a plant that in just prior to flushing was over-fertilized and began to throw nanners because of it. Now my question is, is if I decided to re-veg this girl, once clones of this have been taken and begin to flower will the clones taken off the re-veg throw nanners as well in flower, only earlier, or would it be ok as long as I didn't over-fert. it again?

Well first off, I wouldn't be so quick to assume the overt fert was what caused it to hermie. It might have but typically it takes a few days to a week for them to form and become visible and usually it's not because of one moment of stress but rather prolonged stress or multiple, repeated moments of stress. Typically stress induce hermie growth is from things like too much heat. over watering, light interuptions in the dark period, Ph imbalences, or repeated over fertilization. There is another cause for hermies that is an overlooked stress in my opinion. The plants sole goal in flower is to reproduce. Everything it does in flower is designed to facillitate that. Even the resin which is what we crave is used by the plant to protect the seed making parts of the plant as long as possible even after the plant has begun to die. This is to try to ensure the maximum amount of time to make seeds. Given how it grows in the wild going full term without exposure to pollen almost never happens and the plant can fullfill it's goal. In the grower's world we try to keep the plant from getting pollinate because this means the plant will produce more bud and resin trying to increase it's chance of getting pollinated. Once a plant is pollenated the plant puts all it's energies into making the seeds which means less smokable material at harvest. So we block the plant's ability to fullfill it's goal by eliminating any males. It is my belief that it becomes a stress to the plant when it nears the end of it's flowering cycle and senses it is still unpollenated and this stress also triggers hermie growth so the plant can pollinate itself and survive another generation in hopes of being pollinated the normal way. Plants were around long before man and have evolved a number of mechanisms to increase their chances of survival. So I see this as a normal reaction for plants. Some will argue that the hermie trait was introduced to the gene pool by the dutch when they began making feminized seed from hermie pollen. They feel the hermie trait was originally chemically induced and therefore artificial. It was chemically induced in that chemicals created the stress but that was more a means of controlling where the growth was and not to make it possible to hermie. The Dutch knew the hermie trait existed in plants and merely made it happen in a controlled environment. It may have been more rare before the Dutch but it's a natural reaction plants have. Anyway natural or unnatural, most strains will hermie near the end of a flowering cycle just before harvest, especially for growers who like to go a bit longer to get higher concentrations of amber trichomes. As long as you harvest them before they do their job (within 2 weeks of their appearencem the sooner the better) it's not really a big deal.

Now to answer your question :smile: I've never done exactly what you're suggesting nor have I heard of anyone doing it (although probably someone somewhere has), so I can only guess. If you manage to revert a plant to veg the hermie trait should go into remission. What I don't know though is if the hermie trait will start back up as soon as it's flowered again or will it need to be re-induced thru some form of stress? If it needs to be re-induced then the clones will have the trait but shouldn't hermie unless the same level of stress is created for the clones as what hermied the mother. If the trait would just resume once flowering began again then all the clones will do that too since really the clones are the same plant as the mother and not true off-spring having itheir own unique genetic make up.

 

[-ShutterBug-]

I'm fairly certain the herm is not genetic, but due solely to the massive dose of nutes given two days before flush. And coincidentally a week into flush they started to show. The plant was partially seeded, one branch only(pictured below). I have never done exactly what I'm talking about either and haven't seen anyone on here doing it that's why I thought I would chime in to get another's opinion. Thanks for the response, much appreciated. I might give it a shot and see if the clones will or will not do as the potential mother has done. I still have a few days to decide.
​

 

[PrideofCucamong]

It doesn't have to be EarthJuice, I just named them because they're a decent respected brand. Since you're using PureBlend Pro I presume you want to go organic. Organic is fine but where it really matters the most is in flower as it is what's produced in flower that we harvest. With that in mind if they don't have EarthJuice you could get Peters 20-20-20. Now Peter's is a Chemical based fert but it's popular and many growers use it. One because it's cheap but hopefully more because it has a good balance of nutrients and micronutrients. So you could always hold off on the PBP Grow for a few feedings and give it the Peter's 20-20-20 to try to get it back on track.

I just got some earthjuice, i will feed in a day or so when they dry out. I have a new picture here, wondering if this would help you diagnose my problem. It is starting the get the same brown inside the leaves now.

 

[HempKat]

I'm fairly certain the herm is not genetic, but due solely to the massive dose of nutes given two days before flush. And coincidentally a week into flush they started to show. The plant was partially seeded, one branch only(pictured below). I have never done exactly what I'm talking about either and haven't seen anyone on here doing it that's why I thought I would chime in to get another's opinion. Thanks for the response, much appreciated. I might give it a shot and see if the clones will or will not do as the potential mother has done. I still have a few days to decide.
​

Ah I see you have seeds, almost completely formed too, that takes another 2 to 3 weeks. If I had to time it I'd say it hermied close to a month ago.

 

[HempKat]

I just got some earthjuice, i will feed in a day or so when they dry out. I have a new picture here, wondering if this would help you diagnose my problem. It is starting the get the same brown inside the leaves now.

I'm not real familiar with pests since I never had much trouble with pests so I can't say whether or not that's caused by a pest or not. I don't think so but I'm not sure.

Do you mist your plants? The only thing I can think of to do that would be if you misted your plants and the water sitting there acted like a magnifying glass and concentrated the light such that it burned that portion of the leaf. That can and does happen which is why it is recommended that you mist them just before lights out so the moisture will dry up before the light comes on.

 

[Guest]

Do you have any information about double embryos? I don't have access to a camera but 4 of 40 seeds are double. The seedlings are not equal in growth, one is taller than the other.

 

[alk_loid]

Thats very good information, glad u have patience to type and ecplain
anyway, yeah i made it myself, used this http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=509470 . theres some info about how big your scrubber should be.
so first i build without reading that, later on when i started to worry i opened it and cut it shorter. little more than those graphics say just to be sure.
i used abut 4 liters carbon, didnt need much because i though if i made it too fat it woudnt work. carbn area thickness is about inch.

today i checked it (its on top of the cab) and seems the tape isnt holding top cap tightly.
maybe theres the problem? or havent i used enough carbon? ive seen much smaller scrubbers so this shouldn be the case.

im getting more and more paranoid veryday due the window-has-to-be-open situaton.

and i can smell the plant in my room(i sleep there, but when i wake to take a leak then when coming back i feel it) not much but dunno, like you said i could be used to smell.

 

[blackrome]

Digital Ballast vs Regular Ballast

Digital Ballast vs Regular Ballast

I've read somewhere that there is not that much of A difference between a 600w digital ballast and the 1000w reg ballast.

Is this true.