Karma? baby seal hunters dead after capsize in icy waters

[PhenoMenal]

just how do you know what is used on a seal?

Well the baby seals are clubbed for their pelt/fur -- this is obviously no secret as that is their main goal, and one which isn't hidden from the public.

The rest of the carcass is used mostly as pet food.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_clubbing

Seal meat is sold to the Asian pet food market, and used as silage for farm animals. Their blubber is used to make seal oil, which is marketed as a fish oil supplement. In 1997 their penises were priced at $25 a penis, when sold as aphrodisiacs on the Asian market

Dr Dog, you are from Canada, but please don't take this personally. I went to Canada midway through last year as the Best Man at my mates wedding - he married a Canadian, and it gave me the opportunity to realise how similiar Aussies and Canadians are, and in particular our respect for the earth's natural flora and fauna.

And yes I agree and understand that sometimes some species need to be culled or else they alone will upset the natural balance of the global ecosystem, but if we have to cull animals then lets do it in the most humane way we possibly can.

Peace

 

[TML16]

Well the baby seals are clubbed for their pelt/fur -- this is obviously no secret as that is their main goal, and one which isn't hidden from the public.

The rest of the carcass is used mostly as pet food.

Anyone reading sees this man has no source for his blasphemy and no credibility and keeps spouting the same rhetoric he wastaught by the news channel last night.

Note* Wikipedia is a free sourece of information compiled by the general public and is referenced to one mans opinion rather than actual facts.

 

[Dr Dog]

you are sort of correct
showing me a editable link about sealing is not going to change my mind on anything, I lived in those areas, actually grew up there, so of anyone here on icmag I would know more about this. I was raised in Labrador

Most seals culled are not the cute puppy dog variety, that gets talked about in teh news, they are the nasty rabid dog type with very sharp fangs, and an insatiable appetite. But I am done with this thread, this is not going anywhere

 

[Barf]

TML, your argument is bullshit. Obviously these seals are being killed only for their pelts. This is clearly shown by the picture with thousands of bloody seal corpses.

Not only do they not use the meat, but they leave it on the ice to rot... for fucks sake at least feed it to the fish, but that would cut into their profit, which makes it A-ok by yours standards. I mean shit we can raise cattle for food, why do they need to waste their gas bringing back seal meat? If I can club 100 seals for $30 dollars or 20 seals for $35, it becomes pretty apparent that they are in fact NOT harvesting the meat.

By your logic though, since 100x30= $3000 and 20x35= $700 that 2300 dollars extra in profit makes it humane to leave the corpses to be cemented into the ice.

you are sort of correct
showing me a editable link about sealing is not going to change my mind on anything, I lived in those areas, actually grew up there, so of anyone here on icmag I would know more about this. I was raised in Labrador

Most seals culled are not the cute puppy dog variety, that gets talked about in teh news, they are the nasty rabid dog type with very sharp fangs, and an insatiable appetite. But I am done with this thread, this is not going anywhere

OH NO!! THEY ARN'T CUTE!?!?! THEY HAVE TEETH AND THEY EAT FISH IN LARGE AMOUNTS TO SURVIVE? Well your right then. I mean its justifiable to force million of creatures into extinction because they eat a lot and have sharp teeth, but nice coats and pretty ornaments. Right lions, tigers, elephants, giraffes, crocodiles, snakes, orangutans, gorillas.

 

[PhenoMenal]

TML16, Bignugget and myself tried an experiment a few months ago where we editted a page on Wikipedia, and in less than 60 seconds our alterations had been removed. Yes anybody can contribute to Wikipedia, but all contributions are seemingly heavily scrutinised. Don't disregard information from Wikipedia simply because the public can edit it - it's not quite as simple as that.

But as for your comment ...

Anyone reading sees this man has no source for his blasphemy and no credibility and keeps spouting the same rhetoric he wastaught by the news channel last night.

... it just shows how passionate you are about defending people wearing slaughtered baby seal FUR COATS, which is all they're being massacred for.

So .... do you actually have any seal pelt/fur clothes, or are you just arguing for the sake of it???

 

[trouble]

THREE seal hunters died today after a fishing vessel capsized in the icy waters of the Gulf of St Lawrence

Poetic Justice!

The vessel that capsized was one of about 16 carrying 100 hunters

With a little help from the Seal God's maybe the rest of those boats will sink as well.



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[James-Bong]

It would seem the seals have a better shot of survival than the cattle at your local slaughter house........food for thought......

 

[PhenoMenal]

James-Bong: uhhh.... you are aware that cattle are grown and slaughtered in the US and Canada too right ... ??? :smile:
If so ... what are you trying to say ??? i mean it just seems like you're saying "you can't criticize Canada for clubbing baby seals to death when you kill cows".

Fortunately for the cows however they aren't CLUBBED to death ...

 

[TML16]

I mean its justifiable to force million of creatures into extinction

Extinction? Get your facts straight. These animals NEED to be culled because of their vast numbers, but you wouldn't understand...because you've seen the pictures.

A man that lived there just came on and set you guys from across the world straight. And I need a reason to argue?

I'm going to finish my argument with the same line I started with...

Mind your own business, and don't talk about what you don't know about!

 

[TML16]

trouble to wish death upon other human beings is a serious illness...it may even be taken as uttering death threats in some civil societies

 

[PhenoMenal]

These animals NEED to be culled because of their vast numbers

That may be the case, and indeed seals aren't endangered, and like I said before I understand the need for culling at times to help maintain an equilibrium in the balance of nature, but there are more humane ways to go about this than clubbing animals over the head in a 'who kills most wins most' competition, which is exactly what it is with the seal clubbers at the moment -- they have a limited time, and the more seals they get the more money they make, so graceful killing isn't exactly their top priority.

 

[trouble]

trouble to wish death upon other human beings is a serious illness...it may even be taken as uttering death threats in some civil societies

I didnt wish death upon anyone....did I? Please show me where?

I simply stated that it was poetic justice and I still feel that way.

And what civil societies are you refering to ones that brutally club baby seals to death for profit?




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[Orangecrush]

TML16, you have some many flaws in your reasoning that your argument is completely falling apart, but you just keep saying "Don't talk about what you don't know about," as if that completely legitimates the entire thing.

Lets take this and use it with ANYTHING in history.

The terrorist bombings of countless innocents. I wasn't there for any these. I've never been in a terrorist shoes. Does that make it justifiable? If I don't know about it, I guess I should look the other way.

Racism is another example. For hundreds of years people have disliked one another just on the basis of skin color. While many atrocities have been committed under the veil of racism, should that make it all right? Don't talk what you don't know about.

I do not believe that the main posters here in this thread have said that they feel the SEAL HUNT ITSELF IS INHUMANE. The methods in which they are conducting the seal hunt are what people believe to be inhumane. You can sit there and say that it is justifiable all you want, but the truth of the matter is that there are better ways to accomplish their ultimate goal.

 

[sirgrassalot]

My condolences to the hunters families. I'm all for a sustainable harvest of seal. I'd bet that turkey McCartney would like to beat the crap outta his Ex with her prosthetic leg this season. LoL

 

[Pops]

I don't club baby seals because I don't like to eat seals and I don't wear fur. I do like to eat pussy, but I don't club them first and I prefer them without fur.

 

[TML16]

Orangecrush - Thank you for finally contributing a well written argument to the ugly side of the seal hunt.
I didn't really want to have to get into the details and facts and commit to the typing to have to explain to the ignorant about the truth of the seal hunt.
It seems instead of doing proper research themselves, people like to rely on what they are fed through media. It's easier that way.
You're right saying "Don't talk about what you don't know about" won't explain my point very well, and since anyone is too lazy to research for them selves anymore I'll try and explain it to you delicately.
Note...you didn't make mention of the repetitivness of PhenoMenal's rantings that all these seals are clubbed for nothing more than vanity. This statement is very untrue.

I do not believe that the main posters here in this thread have said that they feel the SEAL HUNT ITSELF IS INHUMANE. The methods in which they are conducting the seal hunt are what people believe to be inhumane. You can sit there and say that it is justifiable all you want, but the truth of the matter is that there are better ways to accomplish their ultimate goal.

Is this really how the others here arguing me feel? If so chalk this up to a misunderstanding of words and these people not actually reading what I've written.
I've already stated that you'd never see me doing this. I could never club a seal myself.
Is their practice humane? You mention terrorism...is any human practice really humane?

Humane isn't letting these seals die of starvation because there are way too many of them and not enough fish stocks to feed them. Would you rather see their little carcasses go completely to waste? Slowly dying because of starvation instead of a quick immediate blow.
Or maybe you rather see them get stuck on ice floes in the spring and drift off to sea? This is humane isn't it?

I'm not justifying ancient practices here. I'm defending a peoples right to sustainance and a guided hand in balancing nature.
The problem is people that are so anti-seal hunt that they've put a black eye on the industry.
It's Government supported, but even they are pressured into putting strict regulations and time limits because of people like you!
Get off your high horse, there are no humans being harmed here. There is humanitarian aid and intervention needed all over the world and people are focused on making a group of poor Canadian hunters even poorer.
Check your priorities!

There are many horrific ancient practices going on in the world. Since there is no animal (besides fish stocks to feed humans) at risk of extinction here, and a cull is necessary anyways, and regardless of what people from half way across the world say...it's used for sustainance of a culture, I see no harm in letting an industry thrive and continue.

You only see pictures of horrific things because that's what the media wants you to see so that they can make their money. Fact is that alot of these animals are culled using .22 calibre rifles from close distance. Most hunters pride themselves on the non-torture of their prey.
It is pretty hard to safely use rifles with mass amounts of media snapping your pictures though.
Also other hunter safety reasons, like richochets off ice.
Some people believe it's ritual and traditional to use the hakapik. Which is also instant.
I can think of alot worse traditions (geared at humans) in some cultures...I'm sure I don't need to explain.

What I mean by "don't talk about what you don't understand" is that you have to see an argument from both sides before you make a decision.
Masny years ago...I fought the same side of the argument as you did. Then I talked to people involved and learned more about the truth and realities of the industry. It's as legitamate as any.
If you want to fully understand you'd look at both sides of the argument before making a proper assessment.


trouble - You call "THREE seal hunters died today after a fishing vessel capsized in the icy waters of the Gulf of St Lawrence" Poetic Justice!?
You explain to me what that means then? Poetic Justice is 3 of my countrymen dying? You must come from a funny place.
Hope you consider your life as worthless while you're at work.

With a little help from the Seal God's maybe the rest of those boats will sink as well.

What exactly would happen if these 1600 men sank? All they need is a little help eh?
What you wish upon my countrymen, you'd better hope doesn't come back to you in karma.
Nice you can speak this way sitting comfortably from your computer desk. Balls of steel you have to wish things like that unto fellow humans. It's peoples ignorance like yours that makes this world disgusting.


I really did not want to invest this much time of my day into explaining to the ignorant and gullable who will believe anything.
You people really need to stick to the topic at hand this is a Cannabis Growing site and you all have no business putting down a country for practices you little understand.
Canada is an advanced G8 country. We wouldn't let something like this happen unless it were completely necessary.

Now mind your own business, get your facts straight, and don't talk about what you don't know about!

 

[Orangecrush]

Orangecrush - Thank you for finally contributing a well written argument to the ugly side of the seal hunt.
I didn't really want to have to get into the details and facts and commit to the typing to have to explain to the ignorant about the truth of the seal hunt.
It seems instead of doing proper research themselves, people like to rely on what they are fed through media. It's easier that way.
You're right saying "Don't talk about what you don't know about" won't explain my point very well, and since anyone is too lazy to research for them selves anymore I'll try and explain it to you delicately.
Note...you didn't make mention of the repetitivness of PhenoMenal's rantings that all these seals are clubbed for nothing more than vanity. This statement is very untrue.

Is this really how the others here arguing me feel? If so chalk this up to a misunderstanding of words and these people not actually reading what I've written.
I've already stated that you'd never see me doing this. I could never club a seal myself.
Is their practice humane? You mention terrorism...is any human practice really humane?

Humane isn't letting these seals die of starvation because there are way too many of them and not enough fish stocks to feed them. Would you rather see their little carcasses go completely to waste? Slowly dying because of starvation instead of a quick immediate blow.
Or maybe you rather see them get stuck on ice floes in the spring and drift off to sea? This is humane isn't it?

I'm not justifying ancient practices here. I'm defending a peoples right to sustainance and a guided hand in balancing nature.
The problem is people that are so anti-seal hunt that they've put a black eye on the industry.
It's Government supported, but even they are pressured into putting strict regulations and time limits because of people like you!
Get off your high horse, there are no humans being harmed here. There is humanitarian aid and intervention needed all over the world and people are focused on making a group of poor Canadian hunters even poorer.
Check your priorities!

I am completely in agreement with you in that you need to see both sides of the argument. And I also agree with you in that seal hunting is providing much needed income for people in need. I think the part where everyone has seemed to draw the line is on the practice of it.

 

[TML16]

I have a few educated FACTS provided to me from a friend about the seal hunt that might help you see it in a more human way:

- 'Clubbing' is the most efficient and humane way to cull seals because of the seal's physiology.

- In a psychological sense, it is easier to shoot a seal than it is to 'club' it, ergo, only a relatively small amount of hunters take the appropriate number of seals (it would be a free for all otherwise).

- Gunshots scare the herd (more deaths due to trampling, more time spent tracking) and disturb the seal's natural breeding and migrating patterns.

- Many of the local fisheries are on the brink of collapse, due in part to overabundant seal numbers. Culling has become essential because culling has been restricted.

- ***Seals are culled on ice, once skinned the carcass freezes and naturally stores, providing food throughout the tough winter for local peoples. A great many of the carcasses are picked up a few days after being skinned; it's called 'Going into the freezer to get some meat.' ***

- The actual number of seals culled is not close to the quarter of a million animals quoted as allowed. Intent marks the difference between killing and slaughter.

- Has anyone gone to think of Paul McCartneys vast fortunes? Could some of these photos be editted or staged?

- Pelt trading is not only sustainable and less impactful on the environment than the cotton, polyester, nylon and leather industries, it has also become a traditional way of life for a people forced to "share" their resources with their colonizers.

I thank my friend for this valuable information to help others around the world understand better.

I hope this helps :smile:

 

[Harry Gypsna]

I cant believe i got called a racist....
that is as much of a response as i am gonna dignify that with.

 

[trouble]

trouble[/B] - You call "THREE seal hunters died today after a fishing vessel capsized in the icy waters of the Gulf of St Lawrence" Poetic Justice!?

TLM16, Your right, the baby seal killers boat capsizing was not poetic justice. Poetic Justice would have been several Big Bull Seals getting ahold of those baby seal killers and clubbing them to death.

you'd better hope doesn't come back to you in karma.

Sorry, I dont believe in Karma, God, Religion or Buddhist Philosphies. Maybe I'm this way because I have been on this earth long enough to see many dreadful & horrible things happen to really good people and many good things happen to real bad people. Bearing witness to these things many times kind of throws the concept of God & Karma out the window as far as I'm concerned, but I'm all for it if it's working for you.

Nice you can speak this way sitting comfortably from your computer desk. Balls of steel you have to wish things like that unto fellow humans. It's peoples ignorance like yours that makes this world disgusting.

Oh, so now I'm ignorant & disgusting because I dont agree with people brutally clubbing baby seals to death for profit? OK, then I'm guilty of being ignorant & disgusting.

And there is no need for you to engage me with undesirable behavior over the internet. I can assure you that I wouldnt have any reservations or fear about sharing my opinions regarding this matter with you or anyone eles face to face.


You have a nice day!


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