Karma? baby seal hunters dead after capsize in icy waters

[PhenoMenal]

Yesterday the annual Canadian baby seal clubbing expedition started ... if you ask any Canadian why the hell they still club baby seals to death they'll tell you they don't know (who needs fur/pelt these days?) - I think most Canadians are opposed to it, yet it still goes on and is not only legalised by the government but supported by the government with icebreaking ships. This year they're allowed to club to death 250,000 seals. A quarter of a MILLION. This basically involves hitting the seal over its head with a club - a technique which is rarely 100% successful, so from 250,000 seals you can imagine that quite a lot of those will suffer agonizing deaths.

Unfortunately some men were lost during the start of this hunt, and that is very unfortunate - even if they are committing atrocities like this nobody wants to see any fellow humans perish and I hope their spirits rest in peace.

But I can't help but wonder if karma helped play a part ...

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THREE seal hunters died today after a fishing vessel capsized in the icy waters of the Gulf of St Lawrence, marking the first accident of Canada's 2008 seal hunt season.

The vessel from the Iles de la Madeleine in Quebec was carrying a crew of six men. Two were rescued by another fishing boat after the vessel flipped. Divers were still searching for a fourth man.

The 12m vessel reported steering problems late yesterday and was being towed by a Canadian Coast Guard light icebreaker when it rolled over.

Canada's annual seal hunt had a slow start yesterday, mainly because of difficult conditions in the region of St Lawrence's Gulf. Boats have been hampered by thick ice.

The vessel that capsized was one of about 16 carrying 100 hunters that headed out from the Iles de la Madeleine, steaming toward a large herd of seals in the Cabot Strait between Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, according to local media.

Three sealing vessels were reported to be struggling in heavy ice conditions late last night off Cape Breton.

In this season, the Canadian government is allowing hunters to kill up to 275,000 young harp seals on the ice floes off Eastern Canada.

The government promised a more humane season this year.

The hunting season always prompts a hard debate between anti-sealing groups, who say it is cruel and unsustainable, and those who believe that hunting is a legitimate harvesting of a small portion of the 5.5 million-strong seal herd in the region.

 

[DoubleJ]

I dont know much about this...

Are the protests over the method of killing? Is it a traditional food source for local people?

 

[PhenoMenal]

Yes its mainly about the inhumane method of killing. The seals themselves are not an endangered species, so one can understand if they're used as food:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunting
"The hunt is practised in five countries: Canada, where most of the world's seal hunting takes place, as well as Greenland, Namibia, Norway, and Russia. Seal hunting is an important source of income and food in small coastal communities where other opportunities are limited."

But the main problem is how they are killed ... rifles are permitted, but seal hunters usually use "hakapiks", which are used to club the seals on their head to death.

Canadian sealing regulations describe the dimensions of the clubs and the hakapiks, and caliber of the rifles and minimum bullet velocity, that can be used. They state that: "Every person who strikes a seal with a club or hakapik shall strike the seal on the forehead until its skull has been crushed," and that "No person shall commence to skin or bleed a seal until the seal is dead," which occurs when it "has a glassy-eyed, staring appearance and exhibits no blinking reflex when its eye is touched while it is in a relaxed condition."

... it's pretty messed up Pretty much the only thing these days that is used from the seals are their pelt/fur.

 

[green_grow]

the "hakapiks" do not "club" the baby seal to death, the pierce the skull (and brain), with a well-placed blow causing a fairly quick death. as far as it being "humane", i would imagine that it is quicker, and less painfull than being eaten, piece by piece, by an ocean predator. the hunters eat the meat . the hunt is sustainable due to the annual limit placed on the harvest.

most of us (not all) here eat meat and wear leather. for that, an animal must die. a baby seals (admittedly brief) existence has got to be far superior to that of a pig or chicken.

i support the annual seal hunt.

 

[PhenoMenal]

green_grow ...
> most of us (not all) here eat meat and wear leather.

I eat meat because I have to survive - I need iron and protein etc.

However, I do not wear leather or fur.

And no, the hakapik is not the final solution you make it out to be ...

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A study of the 2001 Canadian seal hunt conducted by five independent veterinarians, commissioned by the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW), [49] concluded that, although the hakapik is a humane means of hunting, many hunters were not using it properly. This improper use, they said, was leading to "considerable and unacceptable suffering," and in 17 percent of the cases they observed, there were no detectable lesions of the skull whatsoever. In numerous other cases, the seals had to be struck multiple times before they were considered "unconscious."
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> I support the annual seal hunt.
But WHY??? Because you simply like wearing their fur???

 

[Harry Gypsna]

yeah most dont die instantly from the hakapik blow and are actually still alive while they are being skinned..... ive never heard a dead animal scream-have you??
If they have to be"Culled" which is the word they use i belive in canada then they should at least be shot by a skilled marksman who can out one between the eyes and know that anuimal int gonna feel a thing every time.... but these hunters are money oriented and dont want to eat into their profit margins by buying bullets when a baseball bat with a nail in the end can be used(essentially what the Hakapik is-sort of part hammer part pick) why do you think thy invariably act with violence when live action cameras and sound equipment go on the ice and the thing is, they ae being killed for the ur, not for food in the majority of it...they sell the pelts for about 30 piunds each-the carcass is left to rot on the ice.... I dont think theres anything wrong with hunting aniumals and eatuignt ehm-and making use of the by products-like amazon and african tribes who uise animal sinews for bow strings and such- but this with the seals is disgusting beause most of the animal is left to rot, killed so some rich bitch can walk around in a fur trimmed hat or boots... (dont get me started on mink farming-which sadly still goes on in britain-those poor little buggers are electrocuted RECTALLY to save any piecings or wounds being on the pelt which would reduce the value....)

 

[green_grow]

i dont wear fur, i wear leather . i support this hunt because it is A) sustainable, B) essentially humane, at least more so than the life-long captivity and eventual slaughter of many species, C) it is a MUCH needed source of food and income for some people in rather undeveloped areas.

from your own quote, above, the hakapik is a humane means of hunting . human error and carelessness are to be found in any endeavour.

you do not need to eat meat to survive. on this point there can be no argument whatsoever.

 

[PhenoMenal]

Humane? ...

C) it is a MUCH needed source of food and income for some people in rather undeveloped areas.

Canada is THAT poor ????? I went there last year, they seemed to be doing just fine.

 

[TML16]

Don't talk about what you don't know about.

The native peoples of Canada have been doing this for their life sustanance before your family came to North America.

Don't talk about what you don't know about.

 

[PhenoMenal]

Well my friend I know that the Native Inuits have been doing this for hundreds of years - as a source of food, not a source of pelt as is more the case today.

But what are you talking about anyway - "don't talk about what you don't know about" ...... are you saying I have to go and club a baby seal to death before I can talk about it ?????

And if I did, would that necessarily make clubbing a baby seal on the head to its death right?

... are you _that desperate_ for seal pelt ???

 

[Harry Gypsna]

yeah if it were about food it would be all good but these seals generally dont get eaten..they are skined on the ice and the rest of the animal is left to rot...... if the indeginous ppls hunt the seal for food, and use the skins for clothing and make sewing needles from the bones its all good, but white hunters to be going out killing em wholesale and leaving the carcasses to rot-just taking the fur to sell and make money that is fucked up.....

 

[PhenoMenal]

Harry I think youve hit the nail on the head :smile:

Basically they just seem to be taking the pelt of baby seals. I don't see how it's much different from capturing sharks, cutting their fins off and releasing them to drown to their death because they can no longer swim - available now at your local Chinese restaurant.

 

[HerbGlaze]

Dont kill something unless you are in need of survival.
This really pisses me off, this isnt human.
If I saw someone do this Id shove here club in there ass.
The people who do this obvious take there problems out on seals now question your self?
"Am I truly pathetic enought to club a seal to death, without a viable reason"

 

[TML16]

Well my friend I know that the Native Inuits have been doing this for hundreds of years - as a source of food, not a source of pelt as is more the case today.

Where do you get your facts? Paul McCartney?

Canada is THAT poor ????? I went there last year, they seemed to be doing just fine.

Where's you go? Vancouver? Are you really that naive to think there are no starving people anywhere in North America?

are you saying I have to go and club a baby seal to death before I can talk about it ?????

Do I really need to answer this question? Maybe you should go spend a winter with the native peoples.

It's great that you have a bleeding heart for those cute little fuzzy animals.
How could you ever do that to one of those cute little pups? I know I personally couldn't.
But...never involve your opinion in how another man SURVIVES. This what not a career choice for most. This is sustanance in some parts of Canada.

 

[coolx]

i dont wear fur, i wear leather . i support this hunt because it is A) sustainable, B) essentially humane, at least more so than the life-long captivity and eventual slaughter of many species, C) it is a MUCH needed source of food and income for some people in rather undeveloped areas.

Where do we start? First GG, can you read? They are being killed for fur not meat. So there goes c). And how do you know how underdeveloped those areas are? If a few animals were being killed solely for food by the natives, then I would support that, but that is not what's happening here.

B) essentially humane? WTF does this mean?! I think when it's time for you to go, you should go this way. Or any terminal cancer patient in pain. Let's give them a choice eh? And it's OK just as long as there is something somewhere that is worse? Eventual slaughter of species? WTF are you talking about that is relevant? And I suppose you were totally in favor of gassing the Jews in WWII, essentially more humane than endless captivity and torture and the lifelong misery of PTSD?

Sustainable is irrelevant to cruelty.
If it wasn't so barbaric, why do the hunters freak out when cameras try to film?

(BTW tho it's irrelevant, I haven't eaten meat for 30 years, and an animal can die humanely and have lived a decent life for leather - I think I have only about 2 pairs of leather shoes.)

 

[PhenoMenal]

Where do you get your facts? Paul McCartney?

I see you're quite passionate about the slaughter of baby seals.

Where's you go? Vancouver?

No, Toronto, and Niagra Falls.

Are you really that naive to think there are no starving people anywhere in North America?

Baby seals are being clubbed to death for their pelt, not for food.

Do I really need to answer this question? Maybe you should go spend a winter with the native peoples.

Sounds romantic, but exactly what would that accomplish exactly?

It's great that you have a bleeding heart for those cute little fuzzy animals.
How could you ever do that to one of those cute little pups? I know I personally couldn't.
But...never involve your opinion in how another man SURVIVES. This what not a career choice for most. This is sustanance in some parts of Canada.

WAKE UP TO THE REALITY - the seals are being clubbed to death for their pelt/fur, not for their meat.

"Seal skins are used to make waterproof jackets and boats, and seal fur to make fur coats. Pelts account for over for half the processed value of a seal, selling at $25 each as of 2003. Some high-end fashion designers, such as Donatella Versace and Gucci have begun to use seal pelts, while others, such as Calvin Klein, Stella McCartney, Tommy Hilfiger, and Ralph Lauren, refrain from using any kind of fur"

 

[PhenoMenal]

If it wasn't so barbaric, why do the hunters freak out when cameras try to film?

That's worth a repeat :smile:

 

[TML16]

If I was a newspaper I guess I could put any story I wanted behind a pic like this....

...and you'd all believe it.

Gullable....mind your own damn business.

Go nuke some other country and raid another for oil.

Stop your madness, and stop talking about the things you don't know about!

 

[PhenoMenal]

yeah - "that photo didn't actually happen!"

I mean where do you live, China ?????

> go nuke some other country and raid another for oil
Well I'm from Oz, we've had our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan since the start but we dont have nukes sorry. Nor do we raid other countries for oil, sorry. Perhaps you could try again?

 

[PhenoMenal]

Try to deny these photos ...