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Correcting misconceptions about "pit bulls"

Mr Celsius

I am patient with stupidity but not with those who
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Hi everybody :wave:

I would like to present some information that I have gained over the years for my love of "pit bulls". I put "pit bulls" in quotes because "pit bull" is an ambiguous statement that can easily be inaccurate.

First off, lets look at the history of these dogs. The first "pitbull" was a cross of the bulldog and black & tan terrier in England. The original English bulldog was actually extremely fit and looked a lot like "pit bulls". The modern English bulldog is a horrible act of improper breeding; mind you I love the dogs, but they have a lot of health issues and pain because of there physiology. As some may know, the original bulldog was used to bait bulls, because there was a belief that the bull tasted better + it was a good excuse to bet.

Bull baiting was eventually banned and people lost interest. So hence, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (nicknamed "the nanny dog" in England) was spawned; the original "pit bull". The dog, when crossed the the terrier, because very quick and nibble, with a more aggressive attitude that was good for killing. All terriers were bred to kill, every single one; 1/3 of the worlds grain stocks are lost to rats and the solution back in the day was terriers. The old English bulldog brought a significant amount of strength to the cross. So people would pay to watch the Staffordshire Bull Terrier kill rats in a ring. I forget the number but I believe the highest recorded number was around 200 rats in a very short amount of time.

Man, being man, got bored with watching the dogs just kill rats and realized that they could pit the dogs against each other because of the flabby skin they possessed. All fighting dogs by the way have loose skin, so that if it was ripped off the dog probably wouldn't die; Sharpei's, Chow chows, pit bulls and others. Now this brings me to one of the greatest points about these dogs: If you had to handle a dog that had just killed another dog, was in a loud and scary environment, would you breed for a dog that might attack you as well? No, the fact was that these dogs were selectively bred to NOT attack humans; unlike German Shepard's, Doberman's and many other guard dogs.

Eventually the dogs made there way out west, where gambling was allowed, still and profits for life were to be had. Through selective breeding the Americans then took the dogs and made them stronger and larger; hence, the American Staffordshire Terrier was spawned. Unfortunately, up until not to long ago dog fighting was legal. Also because of gambling the American Pit Bull Terrier was created, now with cropped ears and had actually been bred to be smaller again.

Now that you have a brief background and understand of the three different breeds that could be considered "pit bulls", you will realize that the only thing that can be called a pit bull is the American Pit Bull Terrier (my dogs breed).

The real point of this long ranting is to not only give a history of the dog, but to also address some behavior issues and blessings of these dogs. Pit bulls tend to one of the most commonly bred and owned dogs in America, aside from Labs and Golden's. The unfortunate thing about this is, most people do not know how to properly address their unique personalities and challenges. Pit bulls are not like normal dogs, they're extremely hard-headed and don't like to follow orders, compared to say... a Standard poodle.

These dogs need to have a very firm master that isn't looking to be image based. These dogs have a huge potential for aggression and if that's what the owner wants, thats what they will get... which is irresponsible and dangerous; if you want a guard dog, get a German Shepard.

Staffy's/pitbulls all have lock jaw, like most Mastiffs. Whereas most other dogs have whats called a Scissor bite, where they bite repeatedly to create puncture wounds. Whereas all Mastiffs will lock onto the victim and not let go. Its one thing for a dog to bit a kid and make the kid bleed, its another for it to rip its arm off.

Being fighting dogs, these dogs have issues with other dogs and its highly discourage to own multiples of the breed. They will fight eventually, they were designed to attack each other. They will also fight with other neighboring dogs and must be isolated from them. Hunting dogs (labs, goldens, and many others) were designed to run in a pack for hunting purposes, so were bred to not be aggressive with each other.

Beating of these dogs will only cause them to become more aggressive, discipline is a difficult thing to deal with. They do not like to listen and often don't care if you yell "bad dog". They are some of the boldest and more independently minded dogs out there. You need to deal with them like you would a young child.

Ok, enough with the negatives, thats not why I'm here. I want to discuss some of the best things about these dogs. They will bond with you harder then any other dog I've ever met. They will gladly give their lives for you and will protect children to no end. They love to go with you everywhere and are highly social with other people. The more people they meet, the better they turn out. I think of my girl as my daughter; she has her trials and tribulations, sleeps next to me at night and need my comfort and reassurance. She's just like a 2 year old.

Well, was that long enough? LOL :jump:

Anybody got something good to say/add to the subject?
 

Youareborg

Member
Very informative dude. I've got an American Pit Bull Terrier as well. Great dog, but very stubborned as you say, some days he just doesn't want to come back in from the yard. But if he gets left out there too long he gets out and freaks out the neighbors. That dog can sure jump like a motherfucker.
 

ChaosCatalunya

5.2 club is now 8.1 club...
Veteran
I think the name came as people crossed Bulldogs to Terriers for fighting, Bull Terrier is originally from "Bull and Terrier", they were used as fighting dogs, then for public rat catching competitions. Breeders in Staffordshire created a stable line known as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and a clever man called James Hinks from Birmingham crossed these with the [now extinct] old English White Terrier and, iirc, Dalmatians to create, via a lot of selective breeding, the distinctive English Bull Terrier.

FWIW, Oliver Reed's English Bull Terrier in Oliver Twist did not exist back in the days the story is set, as Spinks had not created them by that time, Sykes' dog would have been a Bull and Terrier.
 
G

guest

We had two pit bulls and one mutt in our home. The mutt had terrier in her.

Both pits were unfixed males.

The mutt is about eight years old and has a lot of grey in her now.
One of the pits is about five years old and weighs about 85.
The third is about one year old and is now about the same size as the other and still growing.

Pit bulls are bred to fight each other. Guess what happened.

My home became a nightmare. The young one loves to play hard. The older one gets pissed off and starts chewing the other. I had to constantly block one off from the other.

In the end I put my foot down between them to keep the younger one from getting hurt. I was bitten in the ancle.

I'm sure that the older one didn't intentionally bight me.

I was in this situation because my sons had each decided to adopt a pit bull, against my orders. They brought them into my home and then left the area.

I was stuck with two male pitbulls in my home.

I contacted one of my sons and had him pick up his dog. The youngster. He now is full of scars. It's really sad.

I love these dogs.

It just turned into a nightmare with more than one of them in the home.

The older one and the mutt are just fine. As he gets older I watch carefully for signs of agression. At this time those agressions seem to be limited toward other male dogs.

These pits would get into it four of 5 times a day. I watched, many many times, as the older one stalked the younger. Looking for a way to attack. It's scary.
 
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gramsci.antonio

Active member
Veteran
if i had had a garden, i would have immediately bought a pit bull.

I would have taken him with me at the park, while doing jogging.


Just to see who got tired first :D:D:D
 
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Vermonster

Active member
They are very powerfull and loyal dogs, that is for sure. I like what you said about getting one and trying to raise it based on image. I knew a few kids who were growers and dealers in the last city i lived in and they all got Pitt's just for that reasosn, not only image but intimidation. Well needless to say 2 of the 3 had to be put down because they were attacking anything and everything, one killed another dog at the local park.....However, my other friend has a blue brindle and the dog is the most amazing piece of work...loyal, tough but not crazy, and big and strong as an ox; don't get me wrong if you were to attack my friend you would be hurting, but for the most part the dog is very well trained. They are reflections of their owners like any dog....i think they are beatufill animals, and it is ashame the rep. they have....but living in a largely black area with lots of thugs, i see kids walking them with the cropped ears and muzzels and you can tell those thing are ready to kill....they should euthanize the owner and rescue the dog! also while on the topic of dogs, i have a great American bulldog who is seeking a new home...his owner cannot care for him...his pic is in my pictures.....pm if your interested....getting the dog a good home is my only goal so don't ask me about anything else :spank:
 

NOKUY

Active member
Veteran
if your not a "dog person" dont get any dog please.

if u wanna be one dont start w/ a pitbull

dont get me wrong pits are awesome dogs w/ the right people.... i just hope you have your priorities in line.
 

RottenDawg

Member
Mr Celsius said:
if you want a guard dog, get a German Shepard.
Have to disagree. Cant go wrong with a Rottweiler ;-)

Mr Celsius said:
I want to discuss some of the best things about these dogs. They will bond with you harder then any other dog I've ever met. They will gladly give their lives for you and will protect children to no end. They love to go with you everywhere and are highly social with other people. The more people they meet, the better they turn out.
Anybody got something good to say/add to the subject?

Again, cant go wrong with a Rottweiler! There just the best breed of dog EVER!!! ;-) Peace...........RD
 

NOKUY

Active member
Veteran
rotts are great dogs too!

I'm just always a bit skeptical of people that own potentially mean dogs....as i usually do, but in the right hands all dogs are great!
 

stealthballer

Active member
main difference between the so called fighting breeds and the others is how they react to stimuli, a pit, or a rott for that matter is more likely to defend itself rather than cower down to someone.

I had an amazing rott who was the best dog ever from a man's dog point of few, he woulda fought till he died to protect me, but everytime I spanked him for doing something stupid he would try to intimidate me with those teeth of his. I am not scared of dogs so it was no big deal to me, it woulda freaked someone else out I suspect.

The other thing is once a pitbull is "triggered" they are quite a bit more of a handful than say a lab would be.

It pretty much boild down to if you fuck with a dog you deserve to get bit, only dog that ever truly bit me was a Great Dane. Dogs are a crap shoot regardless of breed, kinda like people.

The only dog I have ever had to hit was a pit bull though, he got a hold of my newfoundland and would not let go, broke my hand getting him off. I treat dogs like people though, you attack me or my family(my dogs included) I will not hesitate to put you in your place. Unless its a cat, I don't fuck with cats.
 

NOKUY

Active member
Veteran
stealthballer said:
main difference between the so called fighting breeds and the others is how they react to stimuli, a pit, or a rott for that matter is more likely to defend itself rather than cower down to someone.

I had an amazing rott who was the best dog ever from a man's dog point of few, he woulda fought till he died to protect me, but everytime I spanked him for doing something stupid he would try to intimidate me with those teeth of his. I am not scared of dogs so it was no big deal to me, it woulda freaked someone else out I suspect.

The other thing is once a pitbull is "triggered" they are quite a bit more of a handful than say a lab would be.

It pretty much boild down to if you fuck with a dog you deserve to get bit, only dog that ever truly bit me was a Great Dane. Dogs are a crap shoot regardless of breed, kinda like people.

The only dog I have ever had to hit was a pit bull though, he got a hold of my newfoundland and would not let go, broke my hand getting him off. I treat dogs like people though, you attack me or my family(my dogs included) I will not hesitate to put you in your place. Unless its a cat, I don't fuck with cats.

no matter what a dog does there is NEVER a reason to hit him.

im serious..even if a dog bites you, that is not an excuse to hit him in any way....you will NEVER EVER regain that dogs trust (if u had it to begin with).

i grew up with great danes myself, and i have seen them bite people....never me tho.

the danes i had as a kid and they were my best friends.

as an adult for sum reason i chose livestock guard dogs....komondor and great pyrenees, and we have a border collie (herding dog)....these are not dogs for a 1st time dog owner.

my komondor who died a cpl years ago would have killed for me, and she would have half killed me to kill for me...she was KRAZY! Thats why i got her tho, and i got what i wanted. I dont think there is a dog alive that could have taken her, and my GF's brother is a an animal trainer ( wolves and german shepherds)...he said he'd not let her near any of his animals, and wouldent go near her himself.









 
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stealthballer

Active member
NOKUY said:
no matter what a dog does there is NEVER a reason to hit him.

im serious..even if a dog bites you, that is not an excuse to hit him in any way....you will NEVER EVER regain that dogs trust (if u had it to begin with).

i grew up with great danes myself, and i have seen them bite people....never me tho.

the danes i had as a kid and they were my best friends.

as an adult for sum reason i chose livestock guard dogs....komondor and great pyrenees, and we have a border collie (herding dog)....these are not dogs for a 1st time dog owner.

my komondor who died a cpl years ago would have killed for me, and she would have half killed me to kill for me...she was KRAZY! Thats why i got her tho, and i got what i wanted. I dont think there is a dog alive that could have taken her, and my GF's brother is a an animal trainer ( wolves and german shepherds)...he said he'd not let her near any of his animals, and wouldent go near her himself.

I subscribe to a different point of view with dogs than you do.

In a pack the alpha dog will nip and bite the other dogs to keep them in check and in line. I spank my dogs for that reason.

Secondly if a pit is locked on my newfy I am gonna hit him till he lets go.

I have a newfy an australian shepard and a chow/german shepard mix at the moment.

komondors are neat dogs with neat personalities and breeding background
Pyrenese are AWESOME as well, when my newf passes(i wish he never would, sweetest dog on the planet), I will get a pyrenese.

the dane that bit me did so as I was loading dog food into his owners car with her standing right next to me.

I have been around dogs my whole life, only retail jobs I have had were in pet stores and I ran a dog rescue out of my house for 3 years.

Safest way for me to avoid any confusion with any dogs is if they understand I am alpha dog.

My aussie still herds anything and anyone that moves around her, she nips ankles to "steer" people. Its instinctual, I am the only one on earth she won't herd.
 

NOKUY

Active member
Veteran
^^^

bro we are almost on the same level here...and i understand u.

your dane bite scenario fits PERFECT w/ when my danes have bitten people....danes are very territorial, and if they own the bed of a truck ...then they own it.

my neighbor who is selling his house has 2 danes and he gave us permission to go look around when he wasnt there...the danes were in the basement...we opened the basement door, but didnt go in cuz the dogs had that as their space...they were friendly, but I know better than to invade a great danes space.

i can see u getting pissed at a pit that is latched on to your newfie (i fukin love newf's too)..im sure not much harm was done.

I am alpha around dogs, they dont own me, ...tho the border tries too...lol

it's just that there are ways to be alpha and not have to hit a dog...thats all i was getting at.

..as for the komondor...you can NOT and will NOT hit that dog or you'll regret it for life.

hey and good choice on getting a great pyrenees!.

..plz look into a rescue if u can...I have never seen a more loyal and friendly/loving dog than a GP...stubborn as fuck, and thats also something i love, but their heart is in the right place.

ill post a link in a min to a cool vid....of a GP that is nice.

:wave:
 

stealthballer

Active member
when you live with 12 dogs as I have in the past, the easiest and fastest way for me to establish dominance is through spanking.

I don't do jack all to my dogs now, a dirty look is all it takes with them.

Only time I spank is when my newf won't stop humping another dog. He literally is smitten if he meets another black dog, funniest thing in the world, male female he doesn't care if you are a black dog he is gonna hump you. Horny bastard that one.



How much maintenance was that coat on the kommy?
I really want one, but I had shar peis and they turned me off to high maintenance coats and skin.
 
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mustardsauce

New member
I never have problems with aggressive dogs until their owners let them run loose. I had a very large german shepherd in my neighborhood, and everyday when I would walk past, he would come walking up growling and follow you about 30 yards away from his house. I hit the dog with my truck twice, on accident while it was out with it's owners. They got rid of it after 3 kids went to kill it with bats.

I have to say, I don't care who you are, but if you have an aggressive dog, make sure it won't get out of it's fence or off it's chain. Any time I have a dog chasing me and nipping at my ankles, I hit it hard. I won't lie about it. Would I agree with a person that did the same to my dog? Of course.

I love pits, and have one myself, and soon to be another. My only gripe is the owners. I never hit my dog unless it well deserves it, and I keep them in check with a light pop on the ass if they are getting into something.
 

NOKUY

Active member
Veteran
stealthballer said:
How much maintenance was that coat on the kommy?
I really want one, but I had shar peis and they turned me off to high maintenance coats and skin.

i mention this to peeps all the time that a komondor coat is FAR easier to maintain than a pyrenees.

w/ "yukon" my GP he has to be brushed alot....like a cpl times a week, and i let it slide alot.

w/ the komondor "milla" we just would pull her mats apart at the base as we sat around......no brushing, and it's pretty easy once they are formed. (w/ a komondor seperating the mats is like getting petted to them)

almost no shedding either as the shedding is contained in the matts.

PM me if you really wanna get a komondor....I have lots of advice....they arent a "normal" dog by any means.

:wave:
 

Harry Gypsna

Dirty hippy Bastard
Veteran
i hear what youre saying aboutb the danes there Yukon.... I know someone who keeps them, and he has one male who kinda "Owns" the lounge lol...he doez not lke anyone to be standing up chatting or anything like that, its crazy he comes up, grabs ur wrist-very gently mind, and pulls you to the chair and sits you the fuck down.... Id been told about it before but thought it was bollocks until i experienced it myself...its mad...
My old dog, I adopted from some not great owners...she was Rotty, lab , pit, man she was an awsome sight, the size of a large male standard rott but with a hugely enlarged vrsion of a PitBull head(in proportion with her bulk obviously) she was soft as as a senior citizens turd-unless you moved a bit fast in my direction to pass a joint or the cider bottle-never with the teeth though, shed just jump to her feet and look at whoever it was lol, she was gorgeous golden brindle and once id got her back to health she looked great-she was in a state when i took her on, becuase of her being a big "tough looking" dog, the ppl i took her off had been mating her with a massive rotty abd selling the pups, and when i got her shed had something like 5 consecutive litters with now break-as you can imagine she was pretty fucked....but once she got in condition again she was a sight to behold..She kept my other dog in line....ive still got him, and as much of a pain in the arse he is lol i wouldnt be without him.... hell be 11 this year and still acts like hes 3 month old lol...i reckon its coz hes a silly mix of herding dog and gun-dog-that to me sounds like a recipie for hyperactive even obsessive sniffing and draggin lol....hes great though.......but I wont ever take a Dog that i havent actually seen both parents and seen the pup before accepting him/her.
Any dog can be made nasty...its down the people who own em and usually the dogs attitude will reflect the attitude of the person..... i mean someone calls a dog hitler or psycho-what kinda dog do you think theyre after...
 

Mr Celsius

I am patient with stupidity but not with those who
Veteran
Glad to hear everyones experience with pits and other dogs. I'm sorry I left the rottweiler's out of the conversation, it wasn't on purpose.

I really can't stress it enough, if you're going to get a staffy/pit then you should plan on not owning other dogs, or if you do, raise both of them at young ages together. My pit gets along great with my border collie (#1 dog in america to bite people, followed by rottweiler, THEN pitbull). They do get into little scuffles about food, but if we feed them separately, its not a problem.

You should never get a staffy/pit because you want to look tough or protect your home. They fall into the companion section of dog breeds (other types: hunting, working, herding, ect ect). Because they are companion breeds, their main purpose is to be with the family and bring love and compassion to the environment. Mine absolutely loves to lick children, its hilarious to watch cause the kids get all grossed out.

My main suggestion about any dog is: Do the research about the type of dog you want to get, really understand why that dog breed was created and find something that is suitable to you and families needs, not what society says is cool. If you have an apartment, dont get a fucking Husky, if you have a lot of live stock that needs protecting, get a Great Pyrenees. Don't get a high energy dog if you can't expel that energy on a regular basis, otherwise you will have a wound up and necrotic dog that is only going to cause you trouble.

Sense, think, act <- this should be the order in which you do things for everything in your life.
 

minds_I

Active member
Veteran
Hello all,

Mr Celsius said:
Glad to hear everyones experience with pits and other dogs. I'm sorry I left the rottweiler's out of the conversation, it wasn't on purpose.

I really can't stress it enough, if you're going to get a staffy/pit then you should plan on not owning other dogs, or if you do, raise both of them at young ages together. My pit gets along great with my border collie (#1 dog in america to bite people, followed by rottweiler, THEN pitbull). They do get into little scuffles about food, but if we feed them separately, its not a problem.

You should never get a staffy/pit because you want to look tough or protect your home. They fall into the companion section of dog breeds (other types: hunting, working, herding, ect ect). Because they are companion breeds, their main purpose is to be with the family and bring love and compassion to the environment. Mine absolutely loves to lick children, its hilarious to watch cause the kids get all grossed out.

My main suggestion about any dog is: Do the research about the type of dog you want to get, really understand why that dog breed was created and find something that is suitable to you and families needs, not what society says is cool. If you have an apartment, dont get a fucking Husky, if you have a lot of live stock that needs protecting, get a Great Pyrenees. Don't get a high energy dog if you can't expel that energy on a regular basis, otherwise you will have a wound up and necrotic dog that is only going to cause you trouble.

Sense, think, act <- this should be the order in which you do things for everything in your life.


That is a misleading statement as the number of boder collies (mutts) greatly outnumber the common pitbull or Rotts.

Every dog has to the potential to turn on humans. And as stated, pitts are naturally more aggressive. Pit owners to wrap thier minds around this and accept it. To say that "my pitt would never bite" is just as foolish as to say my common mutt wont bite. To say that its the owners that make the dog aggressive is only partly true.

Yet pitt owners get so pissy about how bad a rapp thier dog gets.

minds_I
 
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