Question For Earth Juice Users!

[ReeferDan]

What do you use to PH your EJ ferts?

The reason why I ask is that im doing a soil run in MSM mix with no dry ferts. I use distilled water, and only mix up a quart of ferts at a time and it brings my ph down to 3.0-3.5 depending on what combo of nutes i use. After doing this, i need to use like 4-6 big pinches of the EJ ph up to get the ph back to 6.0-6.5 range.
I've been having a problem with my plants clawing in flower really bad for two grows now, and i cant figure out how to fix it. Ive tried more nutes, less nutes, no nutes and nothing changes. Im now thinking that im having to use too much ph up, and its either causing a salt buildup, or maybe an overfert of phosphate (i think thats the main ingreadient in EJ ph up, i dont have it in front of me right now), and thats either causing a lockout or an overfert situation.

It seems my first grow (currently on my 3rd) was my best. I used FFOF and dolomite lime, and i didnt have a ph meter yet. My plants turned out really happy, looking like this:







The second grow, i used MSM mix and plain ph'd water, with the occasional EJ tea or just mix and water, and it had all kinds of funky problems. The leaves started yellowing like 3-4weeks into flowering, and the buds never turned out fat.




You can see the clawing on the plant on the right, it never went away.

All the leaves ended up looking like this



I dont have pics of my current grow, but i'll get some in the next couple of days.


Should i stop using EJ ph up? COuld it be causing the problem?

Should i switch back to throwing a couple tbs of dolomite lime in my soil and throw out my ph meter?

What are better methods of naturally increasing ph? Ive heard of cider vinegar and lemons, but i thought those were both ph down?


Any help is appreciated... I just want my plants to look happy and produce quality meds!!

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

Hey dude, here's what ya need to do bubble your EJ tea for 48-72hrs before you use it with an aquarium bubbler. You'll see the pH rise back up on it's own. You probably have some sort of lockout going on especially if your using tap water with alot of Ca in it.Something about that and whatever is in pH up that causes it. I forget what it will rise back up to though cuz I never check pH myself. The dolomite lime will take care of it. Seriously though just bubble it and always fertilize wet soil. Hope this helps. Peace.

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

Hey again, I just checked out the MSM recipe and forgot they don't tell you to add any dolomitic lime. When I used that mix i would add 1 tbs per gal...because it already has some oyster shell in it. This will help buffer your soil pH and give your plants Ca and Mg. Also I never pH anything. EJ does get extreme so I would bubble like I mentioned and you'll be fine even without the lime. Also I wanted to mention adding the dry ferts worked great for me before...all i had to do was water till the end. I do think the 5=8=4 has a too much nitrogen. Love using their bat guano in teas though.

 

[Suby]

I think your 3rd method shows the most promise, use dolomite and skip the ph up or down just feed them and forget it.
I prefer guanos to EJ but it does work and is complete but organic nutes can have a high or low ph at first but once they are left in the medium they even out quickly.

Citiric acid (apples and citru juices) lowers ph, sodium bicorbonate (baking soda) or quick lime will raise it, I would actually try using a water than contains more minerals in it as oposed to purified, organic soils can benefit from a water source of 100-150ppms starting, roughly, it will be stable ph wise and get some Ca and Mg and Fe to the mix.

Suby

 

[ReeferDan]

Yeah i think the thrid method will work, kind of the KISS method.

Do you think i could add some dolomite lime to the topsoil now and it will help? (im 3 weeks into flower with the furthest along plants, and still in veg with some)

I remember bubbling my EJ and had no swing in PH. I might just grab some guano and EWC and throw some of that into a tea. Im getting another bucket in the next couple of days to switch to this method.

The water in my home city is supposed to be some of the cleanest in the nation, so i wouldnt worry about it(although it comes out at like ph 8ish), i havent even used it this grow yet, just store bought distilled water. I always add a little touch of microblast in with it for micronutes.

I'll get some pics up tomorrow when i crack open the flowerbox to do some watering.

 

[slappyjack]

IMO Foxfarm soil sucks. I tried MSM last grow and it was just awful. I had horrible yellowing from about week 2. My current grow is 50/50 OF and LW and has the same early yellowing issues. I'm starting to think Light Warrior is the culprit.

I'm going back to my favorite cheap soil next time, Eko. It's 6 bucks per bag and works perfectly every time.

 

[ReeferDan]

mmm that bubba kush looks proper!!!


Sounds like a good idea, i wanted to control feeding so i was going to use the ej. I'll go ahead and give that a try, it makes perfect sense.

I usually water first, then i mix up the nutes, and then water that so there is maybe 15-20 minutes for the soil to get wet before they get the nutes. I usually give them a 2-1 or 3-1 part water-nutes feeding with the EJ.

My last grow there were gangs of problems, PM and all the wierd ph issues, but the bud still came out dank. i did everything right, but there were problems that i couldnt fix! I think this time if i can get things right, i will increase my yield and help out the flavor, the potency was as strong as i needed it, so that can stay the same, if it gets better then my meds will last longer.

OK, so my next move... definatly get another bucket and a "T" fitting and more air hose so i can bubble two buckets at once. At that point i can either make one bucket with bloom ferts and one with veg ferts, or one with bloom and one with plain water.

Jiggy, one question. Are you saying that i put a bucket of tap water bubbling, as well as my ej mix in another bucket on at the same time. Then an hour later water with plain water. Wait two hours and come back to the EJ and water with that? (so pretty much bubble the EJ for like 3 hours or so, instead of 24-48 like most teas?")


Thanks for all the help guys, i appreciate it!

EDIT*** i forgot to say, i have EJ microblast and Calmag +, which one would be better to use? I could put the microblast in the teas for sure, but can i put calmag in there? Or should i just put it in the plain water and water with that first?

Thanks again

Oh yeah, currently in my flower box are : Somango, Blueberry, and GDP, all clones from a MMJ despensary in SF, prop 215 and SB420 compliant. Ive got a few youngsters going as well from seed in the veg box: Sadhu, Hashberry, 1 Hindu Kush bagseed and the grape ape re-veg from the above beautiful purple plant (was a bagseed as well).
As you can see ive got a gang of beautiful flavorful ladies that im trying to get the most out of so i want to dial this in!!!

 

[ReeferDan]

IMO Foxfarm soil sucks. I tried MSM last grow and it was just awful. I had horrible yellowing from about week 2. My current grow is 50/50 OF and LW and has the same early yellowing issues. I'm starting to think Light Warrior is the culprit.

I'm going back to my favorite cheap soil next time, Eko. It's 6 bucks per bag and works perfectly every time.

I kind of hear you on that... Somthing is funky here, im going to change a few variables and try to get it figured out, but if i cant fix this mix then im going to have to try something else out.

My last grow went from looking like this:




real happy and healthy shiny leaves


To starting to look funny at the buds, with really really small leaves that kind of clawed



then the yellowing got progressively worse













The one on the right got 2 extra weeks veg than a dose of bushmaster, it clawed hard, and the clawing NEVER went away, but the buds were way fatter!

 

[The _Selecta]

Reeferdan, im just curious about your tap water , have you had an agricultural water test ? if so what were the results , also what is the ph of it ? In addition to that what is the purpose of the distilled? it seems i am in a similar situation as you , the tap water in my area is filled with nasty metals and chems that their is no way i would use it . The method that jiggy is talking about seems to work great but also brings up question to me as i am running ro water or distilled and the ph of either of those seems to be slightly low also containing very fewer trace minerals to buffer out the teas. im doing this method myself but am concerned about how the lower initial ph will affect me in the long haul. hopefully others in our situation will chime in

 

[ReeferDan]

I am saying bubble the earthjuice like normal. Unlike most people I never get an earthjuice based tea to raise much above 5.5 or so. So go ahead with a prewater at high ph then come back a few hours later with the earthjuice tea at a bit lower.

so bubble it overnight still?, not just the same amount as the water.


the selecta, ive never had any analysis or anything like that... if i did, id probably have an answer by now. I know my water is supposed to be some of the best in the nation, the only thing that could be nasty is the pipes in the house, but if i let it run for a minute or so beforehand then it wont be funky. Ive only got a PH meter, so i cant give any solid ppm #'s or anything like that. I know it isnt too bad because it was fine on my first grow. I'll get a reading of PH straight from the tap tomorrow when i water. Im tired now and im going to bed! Gotta work early.

 

[The _Selecta]

well ok then, i was just wondering because you stated using distilled water,curious why your using distilled if your tap is good and clean . i think that with Jiggys method it is extremely important to start out at that high ph mark that he is achieving, also with his tap water having ppm of 50 their is some substance to his water unlike pure Ro or distilled. although i am doing things very similar to jiggy, bubbled teas with prewater etc. , im questionable about how this will work for me in the future since the high mark of my ph is only about 6.8. also im sure that if you were to take a small amount of your tap water to the local hydro shop they should be more then happy test it with a tri meter, but this still doesnt solve the agricultural water sample part , many states do however post psuedo accurate results online , therefore i would try searching for your water plant , if it seems to contain many nasty things then i would definately send in a sample for personal reference . IMO this is the best way to achieve good water . also the benefits of using tap water with the correct levels of ph, ppm seem to be far greater then that of RO of just distilled , just IMO tho.
anyone else have some insight on aqua's relation to all this?

 

[ReeferDan]

DAMN! i watered the ladies yesterday and totally forgot my camera at my girlfriends house... Oh well, monday i'll get pics and show you guys.

The somango are the only ones clawing bad. The rest look happy. The last two waterings ive just given them plain water with some purple maxx in there. The GDP responded the best and its got more thc than the mango and its been flowering the shortest of the 3 flavors in the box.

I'll get the rest of the gear i need before the next watering or two. As well as some pics for you to see.

RD

 

[Kooza]

Howdy there. I am very, very familiar with the exact combinations of soils and fertilizers you are using. You are very close to having it pretty dialed in actually.

I have used ocean forest straight, ocean forest with perlite, moonshine mix, happy frog, etc. Basically any combination you can think of. I have tinkered with the moonshine mix recipe a bit and it produced amazing smells and tastes. I used the dry ferts in it, but if I could go back I would not. I think you made a very good choice there. This is gonna give you the benefits of the nutrition in those soils but still allow you more control over your medium in my opinion. I had some burn and it was due to those dry ferts, but unfortunately you just gotta water through it when the fert is already there in the medium.

What I would do in your situation is first definitely cut out the ph up and down product. 2nd I would not use dolomite to control ph or supply calmag. I know all of you organic guys are gonna be like wtf, but theres a much better recipe to control ph while supplying calmag, and yes it involves a quality calmag product which is the only thing recently added to my arsenal that probably is not considered organic.

So now for controlling the ph using earthjuice. This method works amazing and allows you to feed insane amounts. The trick is to prewater your containers thoroughly with clean bubbled water and no ferts added at a high ph. My tap water is 7.9 ph and 50 ppm so it is perfect for this. Then wait a couple hours and come back with your bubbled earthjuice tea at a lower ph of around 5. So a high ph prewater with a lower ph tea in my opinion allows for a much wider range of nutrient uptake across various ph's as well as prepares your medium to receive food much better. We would rather feed wet soil than dry soil in my experience.

So basically I think if you cut the ph up and down out...bubbled your ej teas....got a quality calmag product like sensical or calmag plus....dont use dolomite...prewatered thoroughly at high ph and then fed the teas at low ph your plants will respond amazing.

Here is what this method has allowed me to trim later this week. Bubba kush 61 days in the last 2 pics.

Hope this helps. peace, jiggy.

I know this is an older post but this is very good info and I have a quick question....My tap water is ph'd @ 7.5 if I water in with that then water in with my EJ solution @ 5 to 5.5 do you think my ph situation will be fine? I ask because my 7.5 tap water is reduced to the low 5's when I add my EJ...I have EJ ph up but if your method will work for me I won't bother with the ph up.My soil mix is 1/3 happy frog 2/3 b'cuz hydromix hp.

 

[MrFista]

Consider the fact that most harmful bacteria cannot exist at a pH range around 3, but many beneficials can.

The pH before bubbling would be a perfect time to add a teaspoon of worm castings. Then bubble. I get it back up to 5 ish.

Then, a pinch of epsom salts (in 2 1/2 gallons I use 1/4 teaspoon) to bring it up to
the mid 6's.

When I do this I only brew 12 hours around 70-72 degrees with massive aeration as the bacteria build up fast.

 

[sound healer]

You know, I actually use Earth Juice grow and bloom without bubbling just fine with great results! Not doubting anyones authority on the matter, but it works for me. I've also got a scoop of lime in the soil with plenty of earthworm castings. Maybe for your plants it needs bubbling, but my outside organic grow was the smoothest and tastiest yet thanks to straight EJ (except for those damn thrips...) hmmm...