Leaves twisting with some burn and some purple!

[DRKN_MNKY420]

Please check out my thread for more details as I will post the pics up here hoping for some expert advise, but all the other info about my grow w/ more pics can be found here:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82958

Thank you so much for visiting my thread and addressing my problems. I will leave rep for anyone who can help, as I always do.

My Largest girl in Veg, almost ready to flip to 12/12.

Lower fan leaf, same leaf, no flash first pic and w/ flash on 2nd.


Upper fan leaf w/ the curling problem.


Very light feedings so far??? Not sure what to think!

THANK YOU,
Drkn_Mnky420

 

[MynameStitch]

What is your temps? night time and day time room temps?
Also can you answer these questions so we can better help you?


SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

 

[DRKN_MNKY420]

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing?Early Pearl x Northern Lights
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)clone
What is the age of your plant? I think like 6 weeks or a little more
How Tall are the plants? Not sure, LST, ONLY ONE PLANT HAS TROUBLE. main stem is prbably 15-18" or more?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Veg 18/6
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) communitive pot, one pot for 7 clones. Oldest and Largest is the one having trouble. She is older because my first batch of clones didn't go well and I got 1 of 12 to grow. Then I added the other 6 clones about two weeks later. SOG I guess inside a rubbermaid.
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) One Pot 7 plants, 5 gallons of medium.
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) Fox Farm Ocean Forest w/ Soil Sweetner aka lime and 30%perlite.
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* Pure Blend Grow 8-10ml/gal feedings , LKarma 8-10ml/gal feedings, superthrive 2drops/gal feedings & waterings, molasses 1tsp/gal waterings. I water, then feed, then water about every 4-5 days.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? No way to tell.
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? Unknown
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? used the 3 drop solution w/ color chart fell between 6-7, this is for the plain water sample I took to my garden shop.
How often are you watering? water, feed, water, feed every 4-5 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? friday 3/7/08 5pm
What size bulb are you using? 4-26watt 65k cfl's and 2-42watt 27k cfl's
What is the distance to the canopy? 4-6 inches
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) low humidity, we have a very staticy house.
What is the canopy temperature? between 72-80
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) Day 75-80, night 55-65, I use a heating blanket under my rubbermaids to try and keep her warmer at night, but I have to have this setup in my basement where it is lik 55-60 degrees all the time.
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 80 cfm in two 22gal containers.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? No
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? No, it dries out good
Is your water HARD or SOFT? umm...I think hard?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Tap water that sits out for 2-3 days w/ a airstone running until I add nutes and then feed my girls or just water them w/ it.
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? some pinching and lst action, keep her level.
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no
Are plant's infected with pest's?no

Hope this helps.

 

[MynameStitch]

Day 75-80, night 55-65

There is your answer, this is why I asked about your temps, the coloration is due to the colder temps.

You need to keep the temps above 72 even at night.
The problems is mixture of phosphorus and molybdenum. Even if you supplement them it won't work, this is due to the nutrients not being able to absorb properly due to cooler temps.
It's like disael gels up in cold, the semi/car has issues starting in cold weather.

Knowing the brand is very helpful* Pure Blend Grow 8-10ml/gal feedings , LKarma 8-10ml/gal feedings, superthrive 2drops/gal feedings

That is also ALOT of food to be feeding your plants.
I would stop using the superthrive alltogether, should only be used for transplant and stressful situations.

I would cut the LK down to around 5 ml per gallon and the grow I would use around the same, you are doubling up on the nutrients which will cause lockout too.

So I would ease up on them nutes.
FFOF is very rich as it is.... but if the clones have been in there 6 weeks the soil will be used up.
Still the feeding is a litle high and I bet it has messed with your pH.
You need to test your pH run off, get a pH pen and water your plants and collect the run off from the bottom of the plants ensure you have enough to test properly.

 

[DRKN_MNKY420]

Thank You for the info.

So, basically your telling me to just get those night time temps up and cut my nutes in half and everything will be fine???

No need to flush or anything like that?

PH, now I don't have a lot of money and I have stopped in at my hydro shop and the pet store, neither of them had anything for under 20 bucks that read a ph level lower than 7.2 or higher than 8.4. Except the hydro shop had some digital tester for like 60 bucks and they had the ol vial w/ the drops you add for 13.99. You say the drops are no good thou?
This is what the Hydro shop carries:http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php/products_id/1940

Anything that can be purchased at like Lowes, Depot, or Wally world? I have those near by. I also just thought of the green house across from Menards, they probably have some strips and the ol vial w/ the drops too.

Thanks, Drkn_Mnky420

 

[HeadyPete]

I agree with Stitch on the temps issue and the overfeeding. 65 degrees is about the minimum you want to go with. Heating the rootzone with heating mats is a good idea, so I think your issue may be more overfeeding than temps, but do what you can to get the temps up some.

Save, beg or borrow the 60 bucks for a digipen. It is as essential as an HID for flowering. The $14 you waste on useless drops (how do you see colour through brown fert water?) could be put towards a digipen.

Good luck.

 

[DRKN_MNKY420]

This one is 30 bucks shipped to me, Will this one work???
http://cgi.ebay.com/pH-Meter-Digita...ater-Test_W0QQitemZ120210742456QQcmdZViewItem

This one is 28 bucks shipped, is this one good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-pH-TEST...-RO-Water_W0QQitemZ180221903923QQcmdZViewItem

This one is 30 bucks shipped, is this one better, I have heard of this brand before??
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-pH-TEST...nutrients_W0QQitemZ180221593012QQcmdZViewItem

So, I found 3 different ones under 30 bucks, this makes me happy if you guys think one of these will work well. Gotta go to work, will check back in 7 hours. Let me know what ya think.

Once again thanks for any reply w/ good info.

THANKS PETE AND STITCH, you guys ROCK!!!
Drkn_Mnky420

 

[wygram]

I have the pH600, it's decent, you just have to recalibrate every week (solution is included).Milwaukee is a good company that makes high end meters for labs, so I felt like their crappy $20 pH pen would be fine.

I completely agree with the statements about a pH meter being essential, even in soil. Eventually, you should also look into getting an EC pen, which would take the guess work out of nutrient strength.

 

[HeadyPete]

I don't guess my nutrient strength. I know how much I feed, I just measure it differently and in different units (ml/L rather than ppm).

Remember, you get what you pay for, but those look they would work. The question is how well and how long?

You will also need a bottle of calibration fluid as that little pouch doesn't last long.

I would never but grow related equipment through ebay, but that's me. If it is your only option then ok, but cash at the grow shop is the way to go.

 

[MynameStitch]

Ebay is snitches in deguise!

They hand over records to the police when ever they ask,. they don't need a warrant.
Everytime you view an item, bid on an item they track by user IP and your handle, even guest names they track what you watch; this is why ebay is very dangerous to order items from.

I have heard stories of people getting busted, because ebay handed over files to the police and based on stuff they ordered they got a search warrant.

So I would avoid ebay at all cost.

 

[DRKN_MNKY420]

Ok, well I agree with both of you that you probably should not order growing supplies from ebay. Which I never have. But lets be realistic, its a pH meter, there are many uses for one of these. Most people use them for their spa/pool or an aquarium. I have never bought any grow supplies from ebay, infact I use ebay for alot of stuff.

Will me ordering a pH meter really give someone the impression that I am a grower and come bust me???

I really would like to just buy one over the counter, but I really don't have much money and 30 bucks is already pushing it. Where else could I find one of these meters for like 20-30 bucks?

wygram-thanks for the input on the meter!

 

[MynameStitch]

lol, I know that, I was just letting you know for future reference to be careful if you were to order anything else from ebay dude, just watching out for another grower

 

[HeadyPete]

It is always "Buyer Beware" in this world.

 

[DRKN_MNKY420]

Thank you guys for your concerns, I really do appreciate it. I will be careful. I also appreciate that you guys are always willing to help the newbs and the partially experienced.

I will update this thread when things either come around or get worse. I think I am going to order one of those meters. I keep you guys informed.

One other question, if I am using karma and pure blend, will a TDS meter even work for these types of nutes?

Thanks again,
Drkn_Mnky420

 

[HeadyPete]

nope.

A TDS Meter measures the amount of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) in a solution. Since salts and minerals contribute to the conductivity of a solution a TDS meter often measures the Electrical conductivity of the fluid which is then converted to a TDS reading.

Organic fertilizers are composed of composted plant and animal materials, as well as minerals and other additives, but anything not salt based or mineral based will not register accurately in relation to electrical conductivity as the meter reads it.

Measure and record how much you are adding to what amount of water and use that to monitor feeding. For instance I feed 1 mL/L grow to my moms and vegging plants as a base grow amount. I dial it back a bit for moms and increase some when heavy vegging decent sized plants. You need to read what your plants like and when and that takes a few grows with the particular strain to get to know it, all suggested feed schedules are rough guides at best.

I don't see a need for a PPM reading for a soil grow. I can see the need to measure a hydro rez and monitor how the plants are feeding, how much nutes they are taking out of the rez at any time, but you can't do that with soil.

 

[DRKN_MNKY420]

Ok guys, I got an update for ya. I am using hardly any nutes at all and I am getting burnt little tips on the new leaves. I also have purchased a pH meter. I got the pH600 Milwaukee meter along w/ the buffer for it. She tests perfect!

I checked the water I was planning to give it, because it is a scheduled plain watering, and it showed 8.7 pH.

I then checked the light dose of nutes I gave on Sunday, also a scheduled feeding. I had just enough for a test. She read 7.7 pH. (2ml PBP bloom, 2ml PBP grow, 3ml Karma, 2 drops superthirve/gal)

These numbers seem very high??? Any suggestions??? Is this part of my problem with the burning leaves?

Low temps, high pH, low nutes. What does all this mean?

I have been checking the temps more often and they have been around 68-73. I did see it once as low as 63, but otherwise it has been higher. I now have the 12/12 light cycle which I switched on Sunday during most of the night hours.

Thanks for the replies!
Drkn_Mnky420

 

[MynameStitch]

Stop using the superthrive for one should never be used back to back only for stress and transplanting and once a month additive.

You have recent pics?

FFOF is pH adjusted properly; your nutes is what is causing the pH to rise; I would flush the plant out with a lot of water to try to rinse out any left over and salt buildup.

How big are the pots?
use 2x the amount of water to the size of the pot, if using 3 gallon pots use 4-6 gallons of water to properly flush her out.

You use plain water in between feedings?
With that soil you should feed once a week every 6-7 days.
You are doubling up on bloom stuff which is not good...... so remove the superthrive and lower the dosage of the LK
Actually until they recover I would stop using the LK;
Sounds like you put the nute level too high before they fully recovered....

when your plants are recovering you have to use a slightly lower dosage and when they recover you up it slowly again......

 

[DRKN_MNKY420]

SWITCHED TO 12/12 on Sunday 3/16/08

SWITCHED TO 12/12 on Sunday 3/16/08

THANKS FOR THE REPLY STITCH!!!

I use superthrive w/ my feedings, which works out to about every 8-10 days, but I will not give it any more until I chop in 7 weeks. This strain is supposed to finish in 45-50 days(seed supplier recommended this). First time I grew them out from seed they finished in 49 days when the leaves started looking really ugly and the triches where nice and cloudy!

MY TAP WATER=8.7pH nothing added!!! Only bubbled w/ airstone to help get chlorine out for 48hrs before I water.

My Nute Mix I used last feeding which was on Sunday=7.7pH (2ml PBP Bloom, 2ml PBP Grow, 3ml Karma, 2 drops superthrive.) These nutes seem to drop my pH about a point!!!

I usually give the grow nutes for the first two weeks of 12/12 w/ some bloom nutes. I think that is what I read somewhere to keep the N high for the first two weeks.

The plants need WATER badly(soil really dry) and I am afraid to give them anything because the water I was planning to give them is showing 8.7pH. I need to do something quick. I have yet to use my new meter on any runoff, because I have not watered them since I got the thing.

I only have the one pot, which is a kitty litter box that holds 5 gallons of soil mix and I have 7 clones in the one pot. Pot is 7" deep, so very shallow with a lot of surface area. I like this setup so far, but next time I will use only 2 or 3 plants, veg longer and I can probably get the same yeild with less problems.

Live and learn, this is all just an experiment w/ this litter box, first time I have tried this. This setup uses all the area in my grow box very effectively.

Couple days ago! Only my big plant is having trouble remember!!!


Thank You so much.
Drkn_Mnky420

 

[DRKN_MNKY420]

Hey stitch, I got your PM and I understand!

But my girls needed some water so I had to make a decision and I decided to go and buy a gallon of some drinking water. I fed it the drinking water on Saturday the 22nd. I checked the drinking water and the pH was 7.6. I then checked the runoff and it read 7.1. This was just plain water, NOTHING added!

The plant really loved the plain drinking water at the 7.6pH level!

Before I added the drinking water, I tested my tap water that had been aerating for 4 days and it still read 8.7pH all by itself. I then took just a small corner of my litter box and watered just enough to get some runoff so I could test it after it goes through the soil. The runoff read about 7.9. I am assuming this is really bad????

Should I be adjusting the pH of my tap water to around 7.5 or should I not use my tap water at all???? It will be very difficult for me to use store bought water!

How should I adjust my pH w/ the tap water if indeed I should be doing that??? I read something about Vinegar? I have apple cider vinger by Mrs. Braggs, not sure if this is good or not?

I also could go to the hydro shop and buy some pH down?

I honestly have searched around on icmag and have not really found that great of info on pH and how to adjust it properly.

Thanks for any help!
Drkn_Mnky420

 

[MynameStitch]

When you adjust your pH you want to use phosphoric acid for pH down, vinegar and lemon juice is not stable and will cause the pH to raise too quickly.......

In order for it to work you would have to water like everyday....... not good



Yes 7.9 is too high! You will need to get some pH down; just make sure it contains phosphoric acid and one or 2 more ingredient NO sodium at all! Or it could just say phosphoric acid

I had the same pH tap water as you did...... I used vinegar for awhile but it would not work as long...... I would have to use a lot of it every 2 or 3 days....... i eventually had to get some pH down.