Help Wiring My New Space?

[medgrowr02]

I'm finally ready, cash in hand, to build my new space. A little background before I get into the questions.

I'm going to be setting up a 8-bucket Re-circulating DWC system, without a water chiller. I'm using 3.5 gallon buckets, and a 40-50 gallon reservoir.

I'm looking to wire up for 2400 watts, but only plan on using 1000 for this first run. I will be using cool tubes, and have a 6" Eco-Line fan to keep things cool.

I need help wiring it up, and I know it's safer to just ask someone on here then to go ahead and give it a whirl alone. I went to Home Depot and scooped a 1-2-3 Wiring book, so I don't go at my task totally in the dark.

I understand basic electricity, and how it works. I'm not a fool.

Here are my questions. I live in an old house, about 50 years old actually, and I only have 150A coming into the house to begin with. My main breaker panel is full, there is no room for expansion. However, I'd like to add a sub-panel with about 30A available for my grow space. I'd like to have the sub-panel equipped with two, 15-20A breakers powering 8 outlets, about 10 feet away.

Firstly, how can I calculate how many amps are available for my sub-panel to begin with, and secondly... how can I make space for a "feeder breaker" to power the sub-panel?

I have all the knowledge to actually install the sub-panel, and an idea of the wire I will need to complete the task. I just need those few questions answered, I'd rather not burn my house down.

Any tips are genuinely appreciated. Thanks again guys.



Oh, and the grow is WW and possibly some DJ Short Blueberry.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

well in theory, your sub panel could be 150 amps too. Between the two panles you cant use more than 150 amps. So you can have breakers that add up to more than 150 because each circuit surely isnt being maxed out at the same time

I would add a panel for 50 amps. If you are going to run the wire, might as well make it worth it.

To make room in your main panel, you will need to get the breakers that have two breakers in one. I think they are called slimline or something. Basically each breaker takes a slot. Theset slim breakers put two breakers in one slot. You will need two breakers like this to make room for your XX amp double pole breaker that will feed the sub panel.

There may be some things to watch out for with wiring thta old and maybe some of the gurus will chime in.

 

[medgrowr02]

yamaha_1, I seriously appreciate the help. That's cool dude. I had no idea that I could wire up a sub-panel for 50A, but it makes sense. Why do all the work for less then 50A? Good point. I see you've done a basement grow, that's what my grow is going to be. I'm just purchasing some new gear now, like my LUMA's : )

Now when you say to replace the regular breakers with the slim ones, making room for my new dual-pole 50A breaker? You suggest I run a dual-pole 50A breaker, for my 50A sub-panel, right?

If that's the case I will need to replace 4 regular breakers with slim breakers, so I have enough room to add a dual-pole breaker.

What wire do you recommend? From my panel, to my sub-panel and from my sub-panel to my outlets? I'm going to post some pictures on here in a few minutes, let me get my shit together.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate any more info or advice! I want to totally safe before I start my new grow, I've got a family to worry about first.

 

[medgrowr02]

Oh, and I wanted to use HIDHUT's cool tube with optional reflector, but they said I have to wire up my lumatek to run with them? Dangerous? Irresponsible? Cheap?

How do I use a cool-tube with my Luma?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

you will need a double pole breaker no matter what size you go with. You can go as high as 125 I believe. Theres no point in running a sub panel for 30 amps IMO. So plan ahead and build it to whatever specs you may possibly need in the future.

Yes if you have no room you need to pull 4 breakers and replace with the twin or slim design. That will give you 4 circuits in two slots. Then you will have 2 slots open for your double pole breaker

I dont know the proper gauge for 50 amps. Someone here will tell you or when you go to home depot, in the wire section they have a guide that tells you what size for which amperage.

For the circuits I suggest Romex and I would get 2 wire, not 3 wire. I dont see where you would need 3 wire in 120 or 240.

Depending on your plans, that will determine what gauge wire. I THINK 12 gauge is good for 20 amps

 

[medgrowr02]

So after a trip to the Depot, the older, more experienced gentleman I talked to has me discouraged, and I already bought my new gear : (

Through trial and error, I found out that I have two, 20A breakers that are used together to power a outdoor water pump, that's no longer used. To make sure, I flipped those two breakers off and checked everything, and I was good. Actually, they're still flipped off and everything works fine. Check the pictures for what these two breakers actually power.

Now, can't I run two separate 12-2 wires from each un-used breaker into my grow space, and power 4 outlets each?

I mean, 40A is plenty of expansion space for my set-up. This is a personal grow, nothing commercial. So if I can cut out the non-sense of wiring a sub-panel, and just wire up 4 new outlets connected to two 20A breakers... I'll be good.

Let me know if it's possible, take a look at my pics for more in depth info.

I really need some help, I want to complete my electric on Friday.


The two that are connected and flipped off are the breakers I want to re-wire into the grow space, powering 4 outlets each.




This is what those breakers used to power, like 50 years ago.




Extra shot without the two breakers flipped to off.

Can I do this?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

What I dont understand is why 2 sperate breakers are linked together like that. Maybe it serves the same function as a double pole breaker. I dont think you can a seperate circuit off those breakers like that. I think you will need to get some new breakers

At this point, I think you need to wait for Ty, Cocktailfrank or one of the other guys who are more knowledgeable

Just curious, and I would take no action based on this, but is there a "clip" joining those two breakers that can be removed? If so I think I understand what is going on. I THINK to get 2 poles or 340, they had to do that. ACtually the more I think about it, the more it all makes sense but someone else should confirm this so you dont burn the house down.

Take a pic to home depot and show it to them

Worse comes to worse you buy a couple new breakers and then you could run 2 20 amp circuits and power 100 outlets if you want as long as you are under 20 amps (16 if you factor the 80% rule). Everything would be 120 though

 

[fumancu]

He could use the breaker in the panel Just unwire the stuff not in use.Run two black wires one each to a set of 4 outlet boxs have to run nuteral and ground all so.

 

[fumancu]

Breakers are linked like that to get a 220v curcuit. or you can get 2 110v Its just when one side trips the otherside does to.If you could run conduet and just run Stranded wire. that would be the way to go.If its only 10 feet.Also if done this way you can hard wire a intermatic timer on each curcuit to control any number of the outlets you want .You can get everything at homedepot
Get the 20 amp outlets they cost more bet you wont have a problem with a 1000w light same with timers there heavy duty you can run anything on them

 

[medgrowr02]

yamaha_1, yes, there is a metal clip adjoining the two breakers. It pulls off right off of the breakers, separating them agian.

famancu, after I unwire the stuff that's not in use. What black wire are you talking about? Like a gauge or something, I need numbers. If I can use those breakers, then why can't I just use 12/2? Maybe that's what you mean? I'll opt for the 20A outlets, thanks.

I think I have a damn good idea what to do, and what I need. But even still, I'd like to get a few more opinions or outlooks on the situation?

Thanks

 

[yamaha_1fan]

If Fumancu is correct, then simply pull the clip off (you dont need to, its just that they will both trip instead of just one if that happens). Disconnect the wire from those breakers (the two that are connected) and wire up your 12-2.

He means the black wire from the Romex. I think you will have black, white and a bare ground wire

 

[fumancu]

Hi med

I wouldnt use romax for only ten feet .you would half to run 2 lines one for each curcuit. Get this wire they sell it by the foot.
http://contractorservices.homedepot...2423&pid=6976e4ec-d43a-4969-8ace-7002f51adb52 .you can get same color if you remember where goes when wireing. or get some green white and black. They have metal boxes covers fittings tubing that you fit together and run wire through. look for these

http://contractorservices.homedepot.com/StoreProducts/BrowseCategory.aspx?cid=851615

http://contractorservices.homedepot...2510&pid=03a8bcd1-c96d-4acd-a037-7a2d55eb505a

http://contractorservices.homedepot...2067&pid=04b83f8d-b544-4055-afb8-3ff8ced42579

You fit boxes and conduit together mount it then run wire and covers.This way all the wires are hidden and everything looks pretty.This is if you can run it on the outside of the inside wall. If you need to run it on the inside use romex to room then conduit boxes inside room. If you need more help be glad to guide you through it. Iv done mine this way and a few others and never had a problem.

 

[medgrowr02]

famancu, thanks for the help, but I need you to be more through. Your descriptions and links are shoddy at best dude, but I really need the help. Your links are dead, at least the first two are.

12-2 wire, from the two breakers, through the wall and the floor, into the basement, ran over to the grow space by stapling it to the floor joists, or even drilling and running through the holes. Once I have the wire at the back end finished and ran to the basement, I can secure 4 outlets in place with a deep metal box, that will be mounted on a piece of wood, or cement and from there it's simple. Wire the fucking outlets, and flip the breaker on.

I end up spending hardly any cash, have a one or two year temporary solution to grow where I'm at and have 40A to work with. If this is the case, I'll get started today.

Let me know, check it over electrical gurus, please and thanks.


This is what I have to do, right?

 

[wafflehouselove]

Hey dude, your not plan on using that much amperage with only 2400w and a few fans so if you are sure of this you can simply run a 10-3 indoor wire from your main panel into your growspace and that will provide you with all the essential you need. A 10-3 wire means that its a 10 gauge wire good for supporting up to 30amp, the -3 means that there's 4 wires in it so that is red(hot), black(hot), white(neutral), and a copper which is ground of course. You can use the 2 hot wire for your 240v for your lights, for your 120v tap into one of your hot wire and use the neutral, and finally ground all of them. You can easily tap into each wire to make a switch if you want if you want to control anything. A simple one is using a contact relay switch and putting it on a timer. GOODLUCK dude!

I just thought about something 10-3 is almost impossible to find, but you'll be able to find a 12-3 tho. You should still be safe with 12-3 your lights will take up about 12-13amps and the rest are fans

 

[fumancu]

The links work fine for me.The way you discribe will work just fine.Romex is a little hard to work with and get everything in the box.I just like everything hard wired and the heavy duty timer is a plus. and everything done up right.cost is a little bit more but you can take it with you. Sorry for the bad discription.Im terriable at putting stuff on paper.This wire is a lot easier to work with for wiring the outlets together.Waffels way will work to Just how much you want to put in to it.

Southwire
12 GA THHN Stranded Black . Copper Building Wire .

 

[Guest]

FUMANCU, THOSE LINKS ARE NOT WORKING !

 

[asher1er]

Medgrow as far as your Cool tube question you have a couple ways you can go about it... I purchased some hydrofarm cool tubes and there plugs are made for there transformers which i did not use i used transformer kits.

You can
A. cut the ends on both your cool tube and your lumas(not recomended) and connect them together..

B. buy converters, ive seen all sorts of plug converters at the hydro stores... from hydrofarm to luma n all female to male ends etc...

 

[Jack Crevalle]

Why no chiller? Do you have AC? Summer is coming..

 

[medgrowr02]

Alright, so I'm going to start tomorrow. I'll hit my main power, run two 12/2 wires into my space, starting at the main panel. Then I'll wire up those wires to the two breakers that used to power that outdoor water pump, which no longer is in use. I'll use 20A breakers and 20A receptacles.

Easy enough.

Thanks to everyone who gave me the help.

Asher1er, I'm gonna look into buying my cool tubes from hydrofarm, I don't want to cut and chop my brand new Luma cables in to pieces. Just sounds plain stupid. Thanks for the pointer dude!

Jack Crevalle, I can't afford a water chiller this time around, and I thought about summer. Thankfully this area stays cool in the summer and warm in the winter, so I think I'll be okay for this first run. I have intentions of buying a chiller for my next grow. No AC, either. Temps are from 60-79 degrees F, minimum to maximum.

 

[BonsaiBud]

So whacha gonna run with all that juice? 4 x 400 CMH? I didn't read the whole thread, sorry. What are the pics/demensions of your grow room? If your hydro system is centralized, just get a high output UV sterilizer like a Current from thatfishplace and plumb that in so it sees as flow as possible. Having never done hydro, but studied it a bit, I suspect that low temps and dark reservoirs serve maily to discourage growth of unwanteds and increase dissolved oxygen. You could probably run up to 80 degrees F if it is a continous recirculate like a deep water culture and you drop an extra large power head into the res and run it 24/7 with venturi air injection. Those things kick air stone ass when it comes to oxygenation and flow, Trust me, I've had fish for 20 years. Power heads are also virtually zero-maintenance and imortal. Go ahead and get neophrene air tube (ozonizer tube). regular air hoses get brittle right at the injection point. The tube must be trimmed or replaced every year or 2. Neophrene may last 5 or more. They sometimes stall when I start them up after major tank maintenace. You can put it on an APC and it will oxygenate your res for 10 years. Just get a big sponge filter for the intake. They are LOUD. If it ever stalls, you will know it the instant you enter your grow room.