Fudge Soil Moist

[Mr Celsius]

So I picked up a pack of soil moist today to see if I wanted to use it in my upcoming outdoor grows.

Ya... NO!

I diluted them in some water and let em swell, everything went well. Then I stuck my TDS pen in some and holy crap! 1900 ppm, I personally am an avid organic gardener and anything with that many salts scares the crap outta me.

Then I took a blow dryer to em to see if they would actually dry out, 15 minutes later, no change. So I'm confused as to how they're going to make the soil moist?

I tried to get some Zeba water crystals, as they were my first choice, but couldn't find em locally. They're made out of corn starch or something like that.

www.zeba.com

 

[Smoke68]

Interesting find on the soil moist PPM's Celsius!
I had just sprouted 3 Hashberry transplanted into small drinking cups with Soil Moist spread throughout it... I had read about phenotypes of HB and it read that there is a very rare pheno that is very PPM sensitive... So out of the 3 plants, one's leaves burned as if over fertilized... This is interesting though, because I would have never guessed the SM to add particles to the water... And also brings me forth to more questions...
Can the Soil Moist be flushed?
Does Soil Moist cause PH fluctuation?

 

[Julian]

Nah, it's the ones with the nutes added to em......not just plain crystals....

 

[Smoke68]

IDK Julian... I use "Soil Moist" myself and I know that the regular crystals(which are white and clear when soaked) have no added fertilizers... but if the regular ones are what he tested, then why did the TDS meter read so high?

 

[Julian]

IDK Julian... I use "Soil Moist" myself and I know that the regular crystals(which are white and clear when soaked) have no added fertilizers... but if the regular ones are what he tested, then why did the TDS meter read so high?

Well, the Soil Moist I have seen in past was with nutes, I couldn't find any that were just plain when I was looking, so, I moved onto something else....(I actually had to return that load when I saw the labels...not what I wanted....)

I'd actually think if they were with nutes it would be higher, since it's concentrated to a degree...so.....small amount, large space, etc, so.....ie: tbsp not means to occupy a small container, means to be dispersed throughout gallon, more (of medium, etc), so.......

It did occur to me to try the ones with nutes, but, you know, then I'd have to sit down and go over everything and completely alter my feeding schedule and amendments to holes, etc, so...If it was all that was available in future I might try them and do that......

You know, also, regarding crystals in general, there's quite a range pricewise depending on where you look, so, something else to keep in mind...one should always shop a little, look around...(I've seen up to like $500 per 50lbs....so......fuck that noise.....ones I was using last season were like $150 per 50lbs or so, etc....$35 per 10lbs,etc....)

 

[Mr Celsius]

They were normal soil moist.

 

[Julian]

I'm surprised........don't know anyone whose had anything less than positive results....

Testing container though would still be concentrated as same amount is supposed to be worked through much more medium....I'm going to test next batch just out of curiosity....how much water/crystals did you use? (Will test for my own curiosity.....I've had nothing but positive results and, had clear demonstration last year their use saved quite a few spots...(the one spot I didn't use them fried quick in a dry period, others fine...)

Edit: I do know what your saying though...organic, etc......some sodium based, some potassium, etc, etc...I know....

 

[Julian]

I'm only finding Zeba for about $13 a lb (what I was previously using was $3-4), so, if anyone knows bulk sources, please post...

 

[Smoke68]

Sorry Julian but I don't know any sources for that...
I unfortunately do not have a TDS meter so measuring my soil moist PPMs is a little hard.
But I still am very curious as to what the Soil Moist added to the water... was it salty? Did the PH fluctuate from your base point?

 

[Mr Celsius]

I used 2 teaspoons per gallon, like the recommend amount.

Julian, you can buy Zeba in bulk by contacting them and getting the "agricultural" grade version. I'm sure you'll be able to buy 40 pounds for very cheap. You may need a business license or something like that, but if you contact them, I'm sure they'll point you in the right way. Maybe you have a supplier near you. They have suppliers listed on their website.

 

[Julian]

Julian, you can buy Zeba in bulk by contacting them and getting the "agricultural" grade version. I'm sure you'll be able to buy 40 pounds for very cheap. You may need a business license or something like that, but if you contact them, I'm sure they'll point you in the right way. Maybe you have a supplier near you. They have suppliers listed on their website.

I know, was just looking for an idea. I always do volume things through related business's. Can't order volume to anything but.

On a different note, something of great interest to me:
A study with control group on 2 different applications...

Note: I'm happy with crystals, have seen benefits,will always use, but, really haven't seen any hard data, which above is. Very interesting actually....Sure it applies more to all crystals than only one product, but, this is the first I have seen regarding specifics.

Treated crops received 50% less water.

Yeah, they're talking yields, so....

 

[Smoke68]

A savings in water and a larger yield? I would have never guessed... but we seem to be straying so far off topic now...
The added PPM's in your water... What are the particles? Is it just salt? In all honesty, I really am going to use this stuff anyways because I see that the benefits outweigh the losses for me... I just want to know what it is that I am up against and if I am going to have and/or want to flush out as it will be my private stash...

 

[Julian]

Email manufacturer. (I would with such questions)

How far off topic could it be? We're discussing the product?

 

[Mr Celsius]

Were right on topic. Julian, I'm running Zeba on all my autos, and the normal strains this year. I haven't used it yet, but when I get some (shortly) I'll give ya a PM and tell ya if I like it.

 

[Julian]

Well, I assume in practical application will function the same as all others. The PPM issue more of a curiosity for me, I love em, I'll keep using em, never had a problem, and, don't know anyone else who has while using them, so....I'd be curious how the Zebas test out....and wouldn't be surprised if they tested out the same...(wouldn't be surprised if they didn't...more just a personal curiosity.....)

I do see and understand results of above, and, like I said, never equated use, or made any claims regarding yield, but, of course, if keeping feeding continuous (or close), easy to see how could be reflected on yield....I thought the 50% less interesting also...(greater yield, less water).....Of course, everyone here knows the finer details on experiments and control groups.....ie: should be identical, clones, all conditions the same, etc....but, the results have a great enough difference to assume not only due to minor differences in aspects....ie: if a 5% difference, could list 100 reasons why study not accurate, etc...but, when your talking 25% and such.....more difficult to wave them....

Note: I'll still use them for purposes or water retention, not rely on any other figures, etc....I need em for water, but, nice to know there are other proven benefits, and, I would assume same results would be from any other product since basics remain the same....ie: Zeba gets a 25% increase in yield, abc product doesn't....

 

[Smoke68]

OK sorry... I was drunk, I was off topic...
I agree Julian. If the control group were smaller, say 5 plants per variable in a 5x5 plot the tests may have been less conclusive. But as it was tested on an acre plot, it is hard to deny the increase over the entire area. I don't know about you guys, but whatever I can add to my soil to get a 25% increase in my harvest outdoor, no matter the harvest, is a good thing.
25% is allot when you think about it though, whatever your harvest needs. It appears that it also can mean less panic when the summer heat sets in over the plot.

 

[Julian]

OK sorry... I was drunk, I was off topic...
I agree Julian. If the control group were smaller, say 5 plants per variable in a 5x5 plot the tests may have been less conclusive. But as it was tested on an acre plot, it is hard to deny the increase over the entire area. I don't know about you guys, but whatever I can add to my soil to get a 25% increase in my harvest outdoor, no matter the harvest, is a good thing.

25% is allot when you think about it though, whatever your harvest needs. It appears that it also can mean less panic when the summer heat sets in over the plot.

Well, I don't know for sure (25%)...I saw in the one case (tomatoes) 80k yield without, 100+k with...110k....and, other was similar I think (maybe more than 25%).....But, see that's kinda my point.....I mean, forget everything else, no one can deny their benefits, and, I mean, I'm a firm believer in their value.......any and all tests aside....just nice to see some hard data supporting true benefits......

I think many can benefit much more than they think regardless of their specific situations.....even some in climates with limited rainfall, manual watering, etc.....they could save many trips,which breaks down to greater security..(infinitely greater for every trip less)......so....I've always used em, always will, data above nothing more than an interest, because I'm already sold, but, nice to see other documented benefits...ya know?...

Yeah, I had almost a month early season last year without rain......only plot that got fried was the one without the crystals...all others were good..so.....and, I'm going to try little heavier applications in future also...

 

[reddy1]

sure glad i found this thread and Zeba. almost got bulk soil moist. i had good results with soil moist last season but that PPM is unbelievable and it's not meant for food crops.

Q. Is Zeba safe for food crops?

A. Yes! Zeba is a natural starch-based formulation. It is non-toxic, biodegradable, pH-neutral and safe for any plant. Synthetic polymers, on the other hand, typically contain significant amounts of sodium, petroleum and other fillers, which can be detrimental to food crops. Because it is starch-based, Zeba particles are an attractive food source for soil microorganisms. Over time, the microbes consume the Zeba, creating a richer soil environment.


Q. Is Zeba organic?

A. No, Zeba is not organic-certified. However, it is formulated from natural cornstarch. During manufacturing, the molecular structure of the cornstarch is tweaked in order to give Zeba its great ability to store and release water. This process limits qualification for organic certification. However, all trace elements of the process are removed, and the final Zeba granules are as 'natural' as the cornstarch in its original state.

that was all i needed to hear from them. i'd like to hear what results others have had and applications rates. their site lists amounts like 3 pounds per acre or a teaspoon per gallon.

 

[North]

amazon has it for sale @49$(inc S&H) for 52 oz.

the 52 oz is enough for 550 gallons of soil roughly.

Zeba stuff not soil moist.

they claim 1 pound of crystals will hold 55 gallons of water.

the 52 ounces is 3.2 pounds.meaning an extra 175 gallons of water in the 550 gallons of soil