strange electrical problem, 30A breaker trips before a 15

[pineappaloupe]

So here is the wiring setup:

Main house breaker panel: 100A and a 30A. 100A runs to the house, 30A stays in the garage

From the 30A line, there are 2 15A breakers, one runs to a 120 socket and the other to a 240 timer for the hot tub (intermatic 104) that i use for my box.

My use: 1200W dual 600 on the 240, and my inline 400CFM fan.
I ran an extension wire from the intermatic 104 timer to my ballast, a flat yellow Romex wire that is very rigid. I dont know what the gauge is but I believe it is atleast 12.



So this is what happens for no apparent reason. Lights turn on, fire up normally, run for hours, then randomly the breaker flips.... but not the 15A breaker that the timer comes from, but the 30A breaker next to the main house line.

Also, I was running a 1000W MH on the 120 line before flowering when I started using the 240/timer line. It never flipped the 30A breaker or anything else for that matter.

what the hell is going on? From what I can tell, I am pulling 5.5A from the ballast (1200W plus 100W ballast inefficiency over 240) and the fan pulls 1 or so. So the load on the 15A (and 30A) breaker is less than 10A.


if anyone has any ideas please let me know. im getting concerned.

 

[BadKarma]

Im not an electrican but I would say one of them is bad.
The 15 should trip but is bad and dont or the 30 is bad and should not trip but does.
Or you have bad wire between the 15 and 30.
I would be concerned also.

 

[cocktail frank]

do you only have 2 single 15 amp breakers in the garage subpanel?
or 1 single 15 and a double pole breaker 15 (for the 220),
a total of 3 breaker spaces being used?
if you only have 2 15's running your 120 and 220 stuff you'd have a good imbalance on one leg.
then hopefully the sub has a neutral and your not getting 120 thru just a ground.
a little more info would help.

 

[pineappaloupe]

Frank: 30A breaker goes to a subpanel, with 2 15A breakers.

one of the breakers runs 220, one runs 120. im not sure what you mean by a double pole breaker.... but they do look different. i can takes some pics and see if i can read some labels.

thanks for the replies


OK so i just went out and took some pictures of the breakers, etc and I need to revise the scenario.


30A main breaker goes to a subpanel that has 2 double pole breakers. The breaker for the 120 is a 20A, the breaker for the 220 is 30A.

this is starting to make a little more sense.... kinda sorta not really. there is a higher load on the main 30A breaker (5.5A from ballast plus 1A from the fan).... but that is still waaaaay under the critical load of the breaker.


pics to come, if frank thinks they will be helpful

 

[pineappaloupe]

update:

i fired the ballast up at around 8pm after the breaker tripped. I went to check on it 10 minutes ago and guess what....

same 30A breaker was tripped.

something is going on.... im just hoping it makes it through to night and i can get another ballast tomorrow. if the problem is the gro pro i am going to be super pissed. its been serviced twice.


peace

 

[manitu]

Something is wrong here. turn off the power , or run a extension-cord from a different breaker until you can fix the problem.

Your power-grid has 3/4 wires. 2/3 hot ones , and one cold.
If you connect your lights between one hot , and the cold one , you get 110/120v.
If you connect your lights between the two hot ones , you get 220/240v.

A hot wire must ALLWAYS have a working breaker, so a 220 line should have 2 breakers , og at least a doubble breaker , with 2 wires in , and 2 wires out.


.manitu

 

[pineappaloupe]

Thanks for the replies.

UPDATE: I turned the lights back on last night after the breaker flipped for the second time, and slept (not well) on the couch with the door to the garage open. And the breaker flipped again at 4am or so. So, that is 3 times in a 24 hour period.

The subpanel box with the 2 breakers and the timer were installed to run a hot tub pump and I believe it was professionally installed.

I am going to try to figure out if the ballast is the culprit, or the wiring, specifically the timer and the associated breaker.

I am going to run the ballast on 120 (not through the timer/30A breaker that doesnt trip) while I am at home and monitor it very carefully. If something fucks up then I can blame it on the ballast.

If the ballast doesnt cause any problem, or take a major shit (again), I am going to invest in some electrical monitoring equipment to check the voltage on the 220 line, and all that good stuff. probably put in new breakers.

I have a back up 600 coming in this evening, so if everything goes bad i can atleast maintain the light cycle. I really cant afford to lose this crop, but im not going to burn my house down in the process.



Does anyone have an idea/scenario on how a faulty ballast or a faulty timer can cause a 30A breaker to trip?

 

[B00st3d]

Sorry to hear bout your luck and I wish I could offer some advice. Its weird how I can run 1800 watts plus a 449cfm fan and a fan that circulates air in my room all on a 15 amp breaker and never once tripped the thing. Im drawing at least 17 amps. Hope you get it fixed before it causes any more stress to your girls

 

[PharmaCan]

Pineapple - sometimes breakers go bad. The fact that you are tripping the main breaker, rather than the circuit breaker, would tend to indicate that your main breaker is bad. If something were wrong with the wiring or ballasts, the circuit breaker would trip.

PC

 

[Bozo]

breaker go bad and should be replaced after they trip numerous times as your has
I have seen em so wore out if you set them down on table too hard they would trip
you claim there are 2 double pole breakers in box? double pole breaker have a tab that links the two breakers together so if one side trips the other side trips as well .Double pole breakers are used mainly for 220 circuits I am confused you say there is a 120 ciruit on a double pole breaker?
Another thing that pops out is the 1 amp fan is it 220? if not how is it getting power ,hope its not piggybacked off one leg of the 220 that creates the imbalance frank spoke of

The breaker needs replaced anyway I would think this should be your first and cheapest course of action

 

[BadKarma]

Sorry to hear bout your luck and I wish I could offer some advice. Its weird how I can run 1800 watts plus a 449cfm fan and a fan that circulates air in my room all on a 15 amp breaker and never once tripped the thing. Im drawing at least 17 amps. Hope you get it fixed before it causes any more stress to your girls

DUDE!
IMO you have a worse problem than the guy who started this thread.
If you are truly pulling 17 amps on a 15amp breaker your playing with your life and freedom.
You luck will run out my friend. Dont do that.

 

[pineappaloupe]

Bozo: I have some pictures that might explain it, but the double pole breaker that runs the 120 is strange... it has 2 smaller breakers on it that arent the normal wide type. ill get the pics up now to clear things up.


so now i have the ballast running on 120. its been on for 5+ hours now with no tripping of anything. I am going to replace the T104 timer and the 30A main breaker when i get the chance.

thanks again for the help.

 

[pineappaloupe]

Well... good news and bad news. Good news: house is not burned down and I think the problem has been identified and solved.

Bad news: the ballast took a shit. I plugged it in straight to the outlet, ran it for 5 hours. Unplugged it to add one of those fancy timers that are real pricey that a friend let me borrow. let the ballast/light cool for 20 minutes. went to fire it up again....

buzz from hell, lights flicker and the 30A breaker flipped.

The End.


thanks for all the responses.
and a big fuck you to sunsystem.

 

[PharmaCan]

Pineapple - just for your edification, the 120v breaker that you are talking about is a slimline breaker. It has two skinny breakers in one unit that takes up the same space as one regular breaker. You use slimlines when you have run out of space in your panel and need another circuit - take out a regular one-circuit breaker and replace it with a two-circuit slimline.

PC

 

[pineappaloupe]

I took a good look at the 30A breaker that was tripping. It is a fancy GFCI breaker that costs about $100. That might explain why it was tripping before everything else.