should i still need sweet

[lilred121686]

i have used sweet for a while but stoped when i started useing molasses. is this good or should i keep useing it or would i be wasting my cash??

 

[Suby]

sweet ..according to my hydro shop guru friend...is supposed to enhance the floral bouquet of whatever plant you grow...

We are pretty much agreed that is mostly molasses and sugar can extract, I`m sure they add more ingredients but really all MJ plants need can be found in a compost tea...magic ingredients don`t really impress me unless I know how and why they work.

Sweet works because it boosts the soil biology with a raw for of sugar, as for the rest...well how is it going to florally enhance something that smells so strong we hace to use filters...

It`s your call but a high molasses comtent in a compost tea will do you 1 better IMHO

S

 

[Guest]

Sweet is mostly just epsons salt and a pinch of iron.....and cane sugar.....

its a very expensive way to get epsoms salt...

but it does work for magnesium deficiency....as you might expect.....

 

[sunnyside]

Sweet is mostly just epsons salt and a pinch of iron.....and cane sugar.....

its a very expensive way to get epsoms salt...

but it does work for magnesium deficiency....as you might expect.....

sweet ..according to my hydro shop guru friend...is supposed to enhance the floral bouquet of whatever plant you grow...

We are pretty much agreed that is mostly molasses and sugar can extract, I`m sure they add more ingredients but really all MJ plants need can be found in a compost tea...magic ingredients don`t really impress me unless I know how and why they work.

Sweet works because it boosts the soil biology with a raw for of sugar, as for the rest...well how is it going to florally enhance something that smells so strong we hace to use filters...

It`s your call but a high molasses comtent in a compost tea will do you 1 better IMHO

S

Sweet is more than sugar and has nothing to do with molasses. Sweet has carbs, vitamins, amino acids, and esters and some mineral salt nutrition (magnesium and sulfer and no iron. *edit* it does have iron
The carbs are the sugar source. I think sweet uses glucose, sucrose and one other one I can't remember off of the top of my head.

The vitamins are just like all other vitamin sources for plants...they work as cofactors or helper molecules that assist in biochemical transformations or breakdown of nutrition.

amino acids in plants are building blocks for protiens...the structural components of our plants...the bricks in our house.

esters are the citrus and berry oils that sweet has. Plants can take in these oils through their roots, but cannot metabolize them. So these citrus and berry oils are stored in your plants leaves, stems, and FRUIT. So...when you harvest your buds, you have stored esters, or oils that botanicare put in there to 'enhance' the flavor of your buds. Thats what your hydro guy was talking about. But it's obvious he is just going by what botanicare's advertisements say...

I think that the esters are rubbish. If I want to improve the flavor of my herbs, I either grow healthier plants or I pick tastier strains. I am not going to add citrus sweet to improve the flavor.

The carbs, aminos, and vitamins are extremely beneficial to your plants metabolisms though...All will improve growth rates and yeild if used all the way throughout the growing cycle...including veg.

Saying that carb products enhance flavor because of the sugar feeding the microbes is silly. Yes the carbs are a good food source for microbes, but that in itself has absolutely nothing to do with flavor and aroma enhancement.

 

[Guest]

Derived from....

always a fun place to shop....

Epsom salt, ferrous sulphate
non plant food ingredients.... cane sugar....

Iron (Fe) .06%


SURPRISE!!!

 

[sunnyside]

Maybe we have different bottles...mine says absolutely nothing about iron

EDIT**

your right...I've never seen that until now.

G. Essential secondary and trace elements are included in the formulation because they are obligatory co-factors for some of the enzymes involved in photosynthesis and respiration. Sweet™contains magnesium, sulfur, iron, boron, manganese, zinc, copper and molybdenum.

So the iron that is in there is less than 1% anyway...so legally they don't even have to tell you its there. The sulfer and magnesium are 1.5% and 2%...

I apologize for saying you were wrong

 

[Guest]

Well Im curious what does your derived from say??

Well clearly there has been a change in formula......

The reason I would never buy this again is I could mix some up in my blender for a fraction of the price.....

There are a lot more micros in yours....

I still wont buy it again.....

but you are right about the esters....


Im a little curious about this statement....why do you think that???

So the iron that is in there is less than 1% anyway...so legally they don't even have to tell you its there.

 

[sunnyside]

mine says has a guaranteed analysis saying

Magnesium (Mg) 1.50%
1.5% Water Soluable Magnesium (Mg)
Sulfer (S) 2.00%
2.0% Combined Sulfer (S)
Also Contains
0.05% Cane Sugar

And an ingredient list that is too long to type out...but it has cane sugar, about 22 different amino acids, magnesium sulfate then the last from the end is ferrous sulfate, which I hadn't noticed until now lol

Your right...the bashead was a bit much. I'll edit

 

[sunnyside]

if its less than 1% they don't have to put it on the label and tell you its there...sweet also has trace levels of arsenic.

 

[Suby]

Sweet is more than sugar and has nothing to do with molasses. Sweet has carbs, vitamins, amino acids, and esters and some mineral salt nutrition (magnesium and sulfer and no iron. *edit* it does have iron
The carbs are the sugar source. I think sweet uses glucose, sucrose and one other one I can't remember off of the top of my head.

The vitamins are just like all other vitamin sources for plants...they work as cofactors or helper molecules that assist in biochemical transformations or breakdown of nutrition.

amino acids in plants are building blocks for protiens...the structural components of our plants...the bricks in our house.

esters are the citrus and berry oils that sweet has. Plants can take in these oils through their roots, but cannot metabolize them. So these citrus and berry oils are stored in your plants leaves, stems, and FRUIT. So...when you harvest your buds, you have stored esters, or oils that botanicare put in there to 'enhance' the flavor of your buds. Thats what your hydro guy was talking about. But it's obvious he is just going by what botanicare's advertisements say...

I think that the esters are rubbish. If I want to improve the flavor of my herbs, I either grow healthier plants or I pick tastier strains. I am not going to add citrus sweet to improve the flavor.

The carbs, aminos, and vitamins are extremely beneficial to your plants metabolisms though...All will improve growth rates and yeild if used all the way throughout the growing cycle...including veg.

Saying that carb products enhance flavor because of the sugar feeding the microbes is silly. Yes the carbs are a good food source for microbes, but that in itself has absolutely nothing to do with flavor and aroma enhancement.

Great post SS, glad you could clear that up for us, it's been over a year since I had that discussion and I haven't Goggled it or anything.

I wasn't saying that the sugars that boost soil biology enhance flavour, that's not possible we are agreed on that.
I'm saying that the overall plant benefit is mostly derived from the raw sugar, all those micro nutrients, aminos, vitamins, fucking useless to anyone using a quality soil that is properly ammeded with compost and some sort of kelp meal or liquid seaweed.

Flavour is all about what you feed, when I use guanos taste differs from a grow where I used alot of neem and fish emulsions, there are alot fo factors that go into taste that are feeding related.

In short it's a bunch of shit your plants can get better from a 100% organic source, cane sugar or molasses will both make an adequate subtitute.



S

 

[truck]

Sweet does what it says it does plane and simple. I've used it enough to know I like it. ya is there better ways probably, but it comes a bottle with instructions on how to use it, usually the part that lacks when you try to do your own thing. I about killed to many plants when using molasses even at 1 teaspoon. It was causing serious root rot, it may not be the source, but definitely accelerates it. I don't know what my problem is but that what happened, and never have had problems with sweet. My plants also showed improvement with heavy feedings of sweet and budswell. This combo actually makes the bud swell, I like it. As for sweets ability to change task I wish they would make sweet with no citrus or berry, just natural, but I guess if I wanted that I should make my own, but I haven't faired well making my own organics, usually means some sort of funky rot, fungus, or bacteria that takes an entire grow cycle to figure out that I'm a dumb bastard and should stick to simple stuff.

 

[Suby]

truck I'm sure with a good recipe where all you have to do is water you can be an organic green thumb, no sweat.
Molasses is good but as with anything less is more, if it builds up it can cause alot of problems, it's best used every 3rd watering so you have 2 plian waterings in there to soften it up a bit.
Since I've started I went from 1TBS per gallon to 1tsp per gallon, it's been equally benficial.
There is only 1 bottled product that I like and that's Liquid Karma, it really gels the soil properties nicely.

If you make a mix with 30% perlite, 60& peat/promix, and 10% EWC then you have a base that will be hard to overwater and will discourage rot.

S

 

[sunnyside]

truck... GH makes something called flora nectar and Technaflora makes one called Sugar Daddy. Neither one have the esters. I've been using the sugar daddy with good results for the past few runs. The Flora Nectar is new so I haven't had a chance to try it yet....yet Im sure they will perform the same.

Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through their root systems and feeding the stems, leaves, and fruit. Few realize that a great deal of the energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is actually used by plants to produce chemicals that they secrete through their roots. These secretions are called exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a humans exudate.

Root exudates, the are in the form of sugars and proteins which come from carbs and aminos. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows bacteria and fungi living in the soil that survive on these exudates and the cellular material sloughed off as the plant's root tips grow.

So by supplimenting carbs and aminos to your rootzone, you are feeding not only the plants and the plants roots, but you are feeding the microorganisms that will end up feeding or potentially destroying your plants.

There is good bacteria and bad bacteria...and they enjoy the same diet. If you had pathogenic bacteria and fungi present in your soil and you added a food source...you just accelerated their growth and they killed your plant. If you had started with a healthy rootzone with good soil food web, you would have seen the guys proliferating and you would have seen improved plant health.

 

[Crazy Composer]

I like what I'm reading in here.

I've used Sweet, but I always asked myself, 'if all I want are the sugars (cell-building fuel), then why do I need all this other stuff on the ingredient list?'

Sunnyside's post was very helpful, especially when it came to the whole idea of the esters the company is adding to "improve" taste. I don't want anything like that in my smoke.

This bit of info posted by Sunnyside may hint to why organic pot tastes better than mined nutrients (a matter of opinion, I know ):

Teaming with Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through their root systems and feeding the stems, leaves, and fruit. Few realize that a great deal of the energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is actually used by plants to produce chemicals that they secrete through their roots. These secretions are called exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a humans exudate.

Root exudates, the are in the form of sugars and proteins which come from carbs and aminos. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows bacteria and fungi living in the soil that survive on these exudates and the cellular material sloughed off as the plant's root tips grow.

Good thread. :smile:

 

[Suby]

I'd like to welcone CC as a new mod in this forum, welcome aboard and enjoy the ride!



S

 

[gratefuldawg]

hey Suby, do you use 1 teaspoon every feeding since you switched from 1 tbsp to 1 tsp?

Or do you still do it every 3rd feeding?

Sweet can be good if you don't need any more calcium.

 

[Suby]

No I use it every 2nd or 3rd still.
This includes when I give them a tea that already has some in it.
From what we have been sharing in another thread overly high molasses teas can shock beneficial bacteria into dormancy thus giving fungal soil biology a better chance and colonizing the tea.
This is true for teas though, I`m not sure the same thing applies directly in soil.
Honestly I cut back on alot of things I put in my soil like dolomite, I`m down to 1-2 tsp per gallon of base soil mix.

If magnesium is needed a foliar of epsom salts will work fine, ES is not organic but better a healthy semi organic plant then a dead fully organic one...

S

 

[gratefuldawg]

Thanks SUby, you've always been a great help. I'm actually switching to Coco, sick of not knowing exactly what/how much nutes the plants are uptaking. I have a shitload of happy frog though, so I'll always keep a couple straight organics for the head only.

 

[Suby]

You`ll love coco, makes sure to use a coco specific nute and a purified water source and a quality coco like Canna.

I`m using coco in my soil mixes, 10-20% percent of the mix, and it really shortens drying time which I find nice in flowering, sometimes you want to time a feeding in flowering.

You can mix the happy frog with coco and use an organic nutrient and supplement with calmag from Botanicare or other similar products, the results will suprise you :joint

S

 

[Guest]

Flora Nectar
0-0-1
guaranteed analysis
soluble potash (K2O)............1%
Magnesium (Mg).................0.5%
0.5% water soluble magnesium
Sulfer (S)..........................0.5%
0.5% combined sulfer

Derived from:
Magnesium sulfate, potassium sulfate

Also containes non-plant food ingredients:
17.5% cane sugar
7.5% Malt Extract
5% Molasses

i got flora nectar and flora blend both in quart bottles as samples from the hydro store. i use the flora nectar as in between waterings (where i leave out primary food and nutrition) alternating with PBP soil with liquid karma and big bud. i go pbp soil mix then next is flora nectar watering ( half what bottle says) then nest is a flora blend watering (half again) and then the pbp soil mix again

the plants really respond well to the addition of the flora nectar and blend prior they got the pbp soil karma and big bud mix with cal mag waterings in between. they like the flora nectar regimine better.

i was told by the tech dept. at GH that the flora nectar and flora blend are designed to be used as supplements when using the flora 3 part system. also they said that they were not the distributors for bio-bizz anymore.

earlier in the thread someone said somthing about over applying molasses and the roubles it causes. how much flora nectar would be an over application (bottle says 5ml/gallon in veg and 10ml/gallon in friuting and flowering)

interseting thing about bio bizz is that almost their whole line is derived from molasses or seaweed extract or a combination on both. bio-bizz grow is derived from only molasses and bloom is derived from molasses and seaweed. alga mic is seaweed and top max is seaweed and humic acid fish mix is fish emulsion and molasses or seaweed (cant remember) not sure bout the root max or whatever its called.

would not somone who uses biobizz be over doing molasses and fostering bad beasties in the soil or are we only talking about the possibility of Over dosing molasses, when using actuall straight molasses in its natural form, and not nutrients derived from molasses???

i think id like to hear crazy composers take on this question.

btw, im not new round here i just terminated my account after a wave of paranoia hit me last week after smoking some wappa. and i had to register again when i came to my senses. i registered under the same name i terminated so id still be known a bit