Lets talk Security systems. IP video surveillance, intrusion detection/notification.

[cabanetforester]

I have been looking at video based security systems and prices seems to be coming down but there are many out there and as usual it seems 'you get what you pay for'.

I like what I'm reading about the IP cams and POE. Most seem to have event notification forwarding via email. Some have phone,text and or sms notification.

Being able to remotely view video surveillance over the internet sounds nice, but more importantly any event can recorded and sent to be stored at a separate location safe from theft or destruction.

My main concern is security of the camera feeds. Not that I would have any garden shots on the video feeds (they would be mostly exterior). I just don't want people hacking them or spamming them with password hurlers or whatever.

Do any of these systems use unique identifiers so only certain pc's can be allowed access to the feeds after entering the name/password? I suppose I could set up a dedicated box to authenticate all requests via some type of hardware identifier? I know very little about these things and even less about hardware?authentication?

I'm thinking hardware identifiers here, maybe even a usb dongle/s that could be shared between pc's.

Am I making any sense here? Anyone have any suggestions?

I have been looking at products like milestone and icamview.

Milestone is the more expensive robust solution here and icamview looks promising for the price.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I dont have much to add as I am really not up on the subject but am interested in any responses. A camera system is on the list of things to buy.

I am not sure how important security is on the camera system. If only taking video of your exterior and of nothing illegal, does it really matter if someone hacks it and sees whats going on?

 

[ninfan77]

Check out B&H Photo/Video

I'll just post this link as an example, but u can browse their site.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ra_Recorder_Monitor_Surveillance_Package.html

As far as your feed being hacked.

The wireless cameras seem that most operate on 2.4Ghz transmission back to the security station/dvr, however there are plenty that work via RGB/Coaxial connections. If you keep these lines hidden, or out of reach, probably better than wireless.

As far as the security of the internet features, the DVR typically connects via cat5/6 to your router, which you can see the MAC ID and such of the items connected. Set your router to only handle the devices you want (as noted in other threads).

It's as simple as pointing your computer while away from home to the correct IP address or nameserver.

 

[cabanetforester]

Hey yamaha_1fan. I suppose it boils down to personal choice.

My main concern is the event triggered video recording's reaching a safe storage location. So my hacker concerns are 2 fold. 1. System reliability 2. Personal privacy (personal vehicle and plates would be visible along with myself on occasion.) Thats how I should have said it.

If there is a break-in, I have to assume the thieves are going to take/destroy anything that could identify them. That is why I want what recorded evidence there is to make it off site.

ninfan77- Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like the router can uniquely identify other pc's (my laptop for example) over the net? Assuming MAC ID is short for Unique Machine Identity then? Do all routers have this option. Not sure I completely understand this.

I think they have allowable IP's in the setup options with some of these systems. I would think an IP could be faked though,to some extent.

Is anyone familiar with either Milestone or Icamview or any others that would be worth looking into?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

It would take some pretty tech savy thieves to hack into the sysyem and disable the network before going in. If you never tell anyone about the cameras, noone would know to hack it?

I dont know how much video can be transferred over the internet. I know a couple years ago, I saw someone monitoring a remote store with several cameras and the display was like one FPS (frame per second) or even worse. Ia sked and he said it had to do with the amount of data on a live feed. The connection could only support so much.

If the remote monitoring is an issue how about just duplicating the storage areas? If using a PC for your system, maybe you can connect an external USB hard drive that would be mounted somewhere remotely. With a bunch of cables all over the place, a thief would not take the time to trace each one. You could bury a USB hard drive in the wall behind the PC, secure it to the bottom of the desk, behind the cabinet, etc. You would have your data, just no PC to view it !!!


Just throwing ideas out there. I do understand your desire to have the data stored off site and having that as secure as possible.

I am not really worried about break ins. I am more concerned to see who is snooping around my property, watch my garbage, monitor my vehicles for break ins, etc. I am not worried that a thief is going to steal my PC. If i did use the PC based system, I would just use an external hard drive and hide it like I said.

Also, have you looked here? They seem to have some good stuff. This was posted in another thread

http://www.ezwatchstore.com/

 

[Verite]

Thats why they have closed circuit systems. If you have a cam transmitting on any frequency it can be picked up and viewed and theres plenty of video scanners on the market. Hard wired cams dont have that problem. If youre going to go the xtra mile to make it a closed circuit system theres no reason to port it to the internet. Too many ways it can be tapped into there.

 

[Dr. G]

i really likethe smoke alarm camera from spyville.com so you can have it in your hall and noone wouldknow get the theifs face on tape

theres alot of really cool things on that web site like pone line monitors to automaticly mute your voice if it detects a tap also camra locators wrie tap locators i even found this one website the other day you could buy a uav ya know like the army uses unmaned arieal vechical

but ya i dont need any ofthat stuff just the cameras to watch my garbage andone in the house for break in

so you guys thinkthe wired are much better? id have my dvr in my attic along with all the wires and only go grab the dvr hook it up to my tv if anything occurs

 

[cabanetforester]

From what little I've seen so far, I am leaning toward cameras that use POE (Power Over Ethernet). That is the power for the camera is carried along with the data so its only 1 cable to run. Also I think the latest mpeg4 AV compression would be a good idea as it can save space and send higher rez video at higher frame rates over a given connection. So the goes the camera price higher and higher. I also think having both visible (deterrent factor) and hidden cams is a good plan.

QOS is also something I've seen mentioned, but thats going to cost you monthly over and above your standard residential Cable/dsl

I would not want a wireless cam system for the reasons stated by Verite.

So yes secure data storage on site is something I have considered. I could put the DVR, router etc in a big fire/gun safe and bolt it to the floor. Run the wires in from a small access hole and cable clamp the wires to the inside and fire caulk the hole. So the cables or power would have to be cut, but to get to those would mean tripping motion alerts.
Or.. more like my nature would be to use a smaller safe that wasn't secured and could be carried out by the rippers along with the DVR, router, etc inside it... plus 1 other item in the monkey prize box?? any guesses? Gps transmitter for a nice little surprise.

I digress, the most likely scenario at this point is an IP based system that records locally, and in case of an event will broadcast to off site storage or something.

Some software (since it's always recording, waiting for an event) will allow you to send video that was recorded some time before the event actually occurs. Again, more money for this type of functionality AFAIK.

Ideal would be the cam/s recording locally, but not broadcasting or acting as a AV server until given the command or an event occurs. I think something like this Biometric fingerprint reader might be just the ticket for added security. http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=093
This combined with password should be pretty effective in keeping my feeds secure. Still have a lot to learn though I wouldn't think I'm the first and only to look for such features in a security system.



I think most thieves believe that LEO is out to get them and protect us the property owners from the bad men in the night. I believe the opposite is the case, for without LEO there would be vigilantes killing thieves by the hundreds/thousands and many innocents would die by mistake which none wants.

Rants aside the benefits are pretty obvious to having some kind of system. Everything from a deterrent to evidence to give LEO.. (I'm a legit med patient following the rules) LEO would not be informed of my med status unless of course it was unavoidable. And of course like Yamaha said the most regular benefit would be the footage on whoever it might be trying to snoop around the place or play in the garbage or whatever. There is a lot of regular property theft in the area. Cars getting broken into, you know how it is.

So mostly I'm hoping someone will share their experience's likes, dislikes, things to look for etc. in choosing a system since I haven't got to play with any of these toys yet I was hoping to avoid some common pitfalls without spending a small fortune.

Not that I'm trying to push Icamview, but I'm curious about it. It looks like something that could give me a much better idea how all this stuff works in practice. Icamview might be worth a google if your curious about IP, but on a budget. www.icamview.com.

Sounds like most folks prefer the local closed loop though so as not to be putting out potentially sensitive feeds?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I think in the next week or two, if I get some time, I may call some companies. I have other "wishlist" itmes like night vison cameras. I would also like pan/tilt/zoom which adds $$$. I would like to see what they have to say about security. I'll have to come up with a cover in case they ask. I guess I could just say I own a restaraunt, deal with alot of cash, live in a nice house and want to keep my family protected. They wont ask more than that.

I'll see what they say about remote access and security. I would really like the ability to access the system remotely and not have to worry about security. I would NEVER put anything illegal on camera though

This is a good topic, surprised more people arent interested

 

[Dr. G]

also for calls like this and to hydro manufactors doyou guys buy a "burner" phone? i have one just for such ocations tha fone is only 15 bucks and a 40$ card lasts me almost a year usually haveto just use up mins b4 they expire

i wouldnt ever talk on my cell fone about security systems saying i have alot of cash calling a hydro shop or like when i had to call C.A.P.S go to walgreens go with the trac fones they need no info to set up do it online

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I already have a burner phone for other reasons. To call the hydro shop, yeah thats a good idea, never thought of it. The phone is in my desk and has not been used for a year.

But to call a security center? No way. That could be a long call getting tech support and everything. No reason to hide who you are, theres nothing suspicious about camera systems

 

[cabanetforester]

Sounds like a good approach yamaha_1fan, always nice to hear from the pros.

When I think of the security issues dealing with transferring AV feeds off site it's more the reliability that bothers me.

Something along the lines of a DOS? attack maybe where the AV server or cams if they are the acting AV servers are getting spammed with requests.

Even though the 'hacker' might not get any video, they could still cause trouble just for trouble's sake or some such.

 

[sneaky_g]

Cal Works nice product I found at Radio Shack

 

[Guest]

I guess no one has a system they are willing to talk about? I would like an actual user to chime in here to give us a hand.

 

[indicapimp]

I think you are over thinking this. Hook the Camera to you PC at the location with a cable and a PC card. I would use Night Vision and some form of remote control all Hard wired on the Camera. Next just setup a PC anywhere account. That Secure tunnel creates and 128bit encryption from one PC to the other and also compress the data transmission. So the quality should be as good to view from anywhere on the planet. What this allows is the ability to control the entire PC that is hard wired to the Camera. I would set it up and take the monitor away from the PC, you will not need it once you get it dialed in. Cable Modem or DSL should be fine for out bound.

Peace

 

[twowordz]

I just installed an entire system with 8 night vision camera for 3000$. Everything closed circuit.

I can record close to one month of video. The cameras work only when something moves.

For remote view, use a vpn server like openvpn, the transmission will be encrypted all the way.

If i recall well, the cams are 200$ the video card was 800$ a computer 600$.

PM me for details.

TW

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I would like to split the signal and send it to my TV's. The TV's have multiple inputs so that is not an issue. I also understand the signal would be fixed and adjustable from the TV's Such as if in single camera or quad mode, thats what I would get.

If using a DVR, the DVR would accept all the cameras, then send a single video feed to the monitor. I assume I could split that and send it to my TV's

But when using a PC, the cameras feed into the cards. I am wondering how I could get the video signal out and back to the TV's

 

[yamaha_1fan]

any new input? This is now the next purchase I make.

 

[wafflehouselove]

You can run a close circuit at your grow and have it record onto a computer there at the place with no network connection to the outside world, then on that computer encrypt everything, if someone tries 10 different pw then it self destroy the entire drive.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

I am looking at IP cameras at the moment, the price has just plummeted as well which is nice....

IP Cameras are like wireless webcams that have their own IP address, so can "talk" to your wireless router alone, uploading the pictures you need to the net without the need for your PC to be on or even there to run things.

A good friend just got burgled, his grow was missed as was a stash box, but he is kicking himself for not having one of these set up, the burglar may well come back and my friend missed the opportunity to see who it is ....

Remember, mobile phones show LEO exactly where you are down to about 50M, it is not a safe way of monitoring your 10,000 plant grow in complete safety.

Ebay has lots of IP cameras and lots of mislabelled rubbish that is not as well as those 2.4GHZ surveilance systems, dirt cheap.